Our SS Situation

[PWNdroia]

Well, next year we will need a shortstop. Several people don't want Gonzo to come back. Several mentioned JJ Hardy. Well, I think we can get someone even better: Troy Tulowitzki. I say we package Bowden in a deal and try to land Tulo. He can hit with power and field decently. I think he would be a great addition.

 

I think Gonzo has been great, but landing Tulowitzki would be sooooooooooo much better IMO...

 

Maybe trade Josh Reddick and Bowden in a deal?

[Dipre]

Well, next year we will need a shortstop. Several people don't want Gonzo to come back. Several mentioned JJ Hardy. Well, I think we can get someone even better: Troy Tulowitzki. I say we package Bowden in a deal and try to land Tulo. He can hit with power and field decently. I think he would be a great addition.

 

I think Gonzo has been great, but landing Tulowitzki would be sooooooooooo much better IMO...

 

Maybe trade Josh Reddick and Bowden in a deal?

 

Tulo is a player a contending Rockies team will want to build around, not trade for peanuts.

[PWNdroia]

Tulo is a player a contending Rockies team will want to build around' date=' not trade for peanuts.[/quote']

 

I realize that, but getting him could make us so much better. And don't forget the Rockies could be getting a really good pitcher in Bowden. Pitchers don't come easy. Probably won't happen, but I can only dream it will. If we give them both Bowden, Reddick, and maybe 2 more guys a trade could work.

[Dipre]

I realize that' date=' but getting him could make us so much better. And don't forget the Rockies could be getting a really good pitcher in Bowden. Pitchers don't come easy.[/quote']

 

Bucholz would be the starting point of any conversation for Tulo.

[PWNdroia]

Bucholz would be the starting point of any conversation for Tulo.

 

Well, maybe we could try starting one with Bowden.

 

If you think about it, it looks like we're not going to get any trades done then, because every team wants Buchholz and he's an untouchable as far as we know.

[example1]

Bucholz would be the starting point of any conversation for Tulo.

 

Teams will be missing out on a lot of other good players if conversations start and end with Buchholz. He won't be moving anywhere, at any time, unless he's the centerpiece of the deal and lots of prospects are coming to the Sox.

[PWNdroia]

Teams will be missing out on a lot of other good players if conversations start and end with Buchholz. He won't be moving anywhere' date=' at any time, unless he's the centerpiece of the deal and lots of prospects are coming to the Sox.[/quote']

 

Exactly what I was trying to say. Thank you for summing it up.

[Dipre]

Teams will be missing out on a lot of other good players if conversations start and end with Buchholz. He won't be moving anywhere' date=' at any time, unless he's the centerpiece of the deal and lots of prospects are coming to the Sox.[/quote']

 

If the Rockies were a rebuilding team, sure, but a team in contention wants players who have completed their development.

 

It's common sense.

[Cocos Disciples]

The Rockies' main goal is winning, not making the Red Sox better. They're not trading Tulo for a package centered around Bowden.

[Dipre]

The Rockies' main goal is winning' date=' not making the Red Sox better. They're not trading Tulo for a package centered around Bowden.[/quote']

 

Again, any conversation about Tulo begins and ends with pitching that is ready to contribute.

 

That, by definition, is Clay Bucholz.

[Cocos Disciples]

Again, any conversation about Tulo begins and ends with pitching that is ready to contribute.

 

That, by definition, is Clay Bucholz.

 

I don't see them trading him anyway. Why does a playoff team trade their best player who they have signed through 2014?

[Dipre]

I don't see them trading him anyway. Why does a playoff team trade their best player who they have signed through 2014?

 

On the cheap btw.

[ORS]

I don't see them trading him anyway. Why does a playoff team trade their best player who they have signed through 2014?

Because he will make the Red Sox so much better. What don't you get about that?

 

Seriously, there's only one superstar young SS better than Tulowitski, and he happens to play for a team with a history of moving talent, no matter how good, once they start getting expensive. While I don't like to partake in wild speculation, he's probably the place to start the discussion.

[Dipre]

Because he will make the Red Sox so much better. What don't you get about that?

 

Seriously, there's only one superstar young SS better than Tulowitski, and he happens to play for a team with a history of moving talent, no matter how good, once they start getting expensive. While I don't like to partake in wild speculation, he's probably the place to start the discussion.

 

He's been the focus of all discussion up until now.

 

I don't see where does Tulo come from, he's on a contending team with not nearly as many budget constraints as the Marlins.

[Cocos Disciples]

Because he will make the Red Sox so much better. What don't you get about that?

 

Seriously, there's only one superstar young SS better than Tulowitski, and he happens to play for a team with a history of moving talent, no matter how good, once they start getting expensive. While I don't like to partake in wild speculation, he's probably the place to start the discussion.

 

Agreed, Hanley (are we allowed to say his name?) is more likely than Tulo, but I think it would be wise to look at more realistic options.

[Dipre]

Agreed' date=' Hanley (are we allowed to say his name?) is more likely than Tulo, but I think it would be wise to look at more realistic options.[/quote']

 

See: Hardy,JJ.

[ORS]

He's been the focus of all discussion up until now.

 

I don't see where does Tulo come from, he's on a contending team with not nearly as many budget constraints as the Marlins.

I realize he's been the main topic McFantasy07's posts in every possible thread. My comment was directed at this specific thread topic.

[Cocos Disciples]

See: Hardy' date='JJ.[/quote']

 

There's a name I haven't seen discussed here.

[Dipre]

I realize he's been the main topic McFantasy07's posts in every possible thread. My comment was directed at this specific thread topic.

 

Hahahahaha.

 

Still, it's not so unrealistic to think they'll at least kick the tires on him before they make a move.

 

The Marlins are likely to shop him anyway.

[Dipre]

There's a name I haven't seen discussed here.

 

Enlighten us.

[Cocos Disciples]

Enlighten us.

 

I worded that poorly, I was talking about Hardy.

[ORS]

I don't think we have what it takes to land him (this is considering Buchholz off the table - which he more than likely is at this point).

 

If Bowden and the 20-Year All-Star had put up better years, then we might be able to swing it, but I think cream of our prospect crop will fall a little short.

 

EDIT: This is about landing Hanleymort.

[Dipre]

I don't think we have what it takes to land him (this is considering Buchholz off the table - which he more than likely is at this point).

 

If Bowden and the 20-Year All-Star had put up better years, then we might be able to swing it, but I think cream of our prospect crop will fall a little short.

 

EDIT: This is about landing Hanleymort.

 

I think swinging it is possible, but the amount of talent involved would be ridiculous.

[example1]

If the Rockies were a rebuilding team, sure, but a team in contention wants players who have completed their development.

 

It's common sense.

 

Oh God, I hope you didn't think I was joining the Tulo bandwagon. Sorry. I can see how you would, given the context of my post.

 

My point was merely that Buchholz isn't a discussable piece anymore. I can't imagine the Sox trading him for anyone. Maybe for a year and the chance of signing Pujols longterm, probably not for Hanley Ramirez. Yes I'm serious, and don't call me Sherley.

 

Nothing is more valuable to the Sox than a young power starting pitcher. We know this FO builds itself around run differiental, and we know that SPs play a huge role in run differential. A guy who eats up 200 of the team's 1400 IPs for a season contributes to a good portion of 14% of the defensive production during that time. I say "good portion" because even when a pitcher is on the mound a lot can happen to the team that isn't directly the responsibility of the pitcher... cheap hits, errors, bad calls by the umpire, etc., Still, a good portion is a good portion, if that makes sense.

 

Look at the list of the top 10 qualified pitchers in the AL by average FB velocity:

 

1. Verlander, DET, 95.6

2. Jackson, DET, 94.6

3. Burnett, NYY, 94.3

4. Sabathia, NYY, 94.2

5. Beckett, BOS, 94.1

6. Hernandez, SEA, 94.0

7. Greinke, KC, 93.7

8. Lester, BOS, 93.7

9. Garza, TB, 92.9

10. Halladay, TOR, 92.6

 

Lackey finished 16th and last year Ervin Santana was 5th. In other words, three of the four playoff teams each has at least two starters in the top 10, and the Angels weren't far off. Where would Buchholz rank on this list? At 93.5 he would have ranked just above Garza and Halladay at #9. He's also got one of the best changeups in the game. I'm willing to bet that his value to the Sox lies somewhere in the same range as those pitchers values do to their teams... Greinke, HWSNBN, Garza, Halladay-ish. Those are guys other teams go to get, not guys you move as part of a package. With his youth, upside and cost I would rank him above at least Jackson, Burnett, and Garza, and I could be convinced to rank him above Halladay and Lester overall too.

 

-------------------------------

 

In terms of shortstop, I think Lowrie and Iglesias will get a shot over the next few years. Alex Gonzalez would be an adequate choice to train those guys up. I think the Sox might be very well suited to trying to just get a great glove and plant him in Boston. I think that's who they hope Iglesias will be. If you can't get an offensively dominant SS, get someone who makes up for it on defense--especially given their pitching heavy philosophy. Shortstops can be remarkably valuable if their defense is above average, as they get so many chances.

 

Tulo ain't happening.

[PWNdroia]

Actually, I forgot about Hanley Ramirez, I would take him instead as well.

[Dipre]

@ example1.

 

Thanks for clearing your thoughts up, because Tulo definitely ain't happening.

[PWNdroia]

@ example1.

 

Thanks for clearing your thoughts up, because Tulo definitely ain't happening.

 

There's always Hanley Ramirez!

[Dipre]

There's always Hanley Ramirez!

 

Keeping Bay and adding Hanley while playing Youk at 1st full time and Lowell at 3rd full time as well with V-Mart catching sends this lineup into elite status.

 

However, getting Hardy and someone who can actually scare opposing pitchers would also be pretty good.

[Spudboy]

The talk among Boston media people is that Bay will not be back.

 

It's not the $/yr, but the length of the contract that is at issue.

[Dojji]

I think Jose Reyes has a better shot at being available than Tulo does.

 

Which doesn't I hasten to add, mean I actually think Reyes is definitely available. Just that the Mets have more reason to trade Jose than the Rockies have to trade Tulowitzki.