8/20 @ Toronto

[rhet]

Don't bother. This guy will just come back at you with his batting average and prove to you that JD Drew' date=' is, in fact, Satan.[/quote']

 

I'm not focussing on his embarrassing batting average. I'm looking at his avg with RISP. Getting a hit when runners are on base is better than drawing a walk, whether you agree or not.

 

Drew is not Satan. He's just a mediocre player, locked into RF for five years. Our manager has no idea where to hit him because he's mediocre at the front end and middle of the order. 7th or 8th he can handle, but it does seem a little embarrassing to have your highest paid player batting 8th. Like Arod in the playoffs, that stigma sticks.

[a700hitter]

His WARP totals haven't justified him being the highest paid player on the team.

 

I don't know how people can spend this much time arguing about Drew. Anyone arguing that he's great needs to take his lack of playing time, his injury proneness and his actual lack of counting stats as something significant. I'm a "moneyball" guy (for lack of a badly-needed better term), but I too am dismayed at his consistently low RBI totals. Even though RBI are a s***** way of measuring a player's overall value, for some reason there ARE players who can both put up .385 OBP and 100+ RBI.

 

In his 3 seasons with Boston he's had 64, 64 and 48 RBI. That really isn't that impressive. His high in a season in BOS is 126 H.

 

I like when guys get on base, but sometimes you just need someone to hit the f***ing ball.

 

That said, anyone arguing that he sucks needs to step back and look at his career averages and his high OBP and realize that he actually does a nice job of not making outs.

 

It just doesn't seem that hard to me. Like ORS said (and I said before) Im' always happy when he's playing, and I'm disappointed when he's not. His pay doesn't jusitify itself but he's not a complete waste. He's right in the middle between expectations and disappointments. When he's done in Boston we will likely give him a resounding "meh".

100% agreement at the risk of being called a Drew hater.

[rhet]

Having said all that, I hope he goes 5-5 tonight with three bombs!!

[schillingouttheks]

His WARP totals haven't justified him being the highest paid player on the team.

 

I don't know how people can spend this much time arguing about Drew. Anyone arguing that he's great needs to take his lack of playing time, his injury proneness and his actual lack of counting stats as something significant. I'm a "moneyball" guy (for lack of a badly-needed better term), but I too am dismayed at his consistently low RBI totals. Even though RBI are a s***** way of measuring a player's overall value, for some reason there ARE players who can both put up .385 OBP and 100+ RBI, and their production is represented in WARP, VORP, Win Shares, whatever... Drew doesn't light up any of those categories.

 

In his 3 seasons with Boston he's had 64, 64 and 48 RBI. That really isn't that impressive. His high in a season in BOS is 126 H.

 

I like when guys get on base, but sometimes you just need someone to hit the f***ing ball.

 

That said, anyone arguing that he sucks needs to step back and look at his career averages and his high OBP and realize that he actually does a nice job of not making outs.

 

It just doesn't seem that hard to me. Like ORS said (and I said before) Im' always happy when he's playing, and I'm disappointed when he's not. His pay doesn't jusitify itself but he's not a complete waste. He's right in the middle between expectations and disappointments. When he's done in Boston we will likely give him a resounding "meh".

 

I'm in agreement with you. He's done a nice job when he is playing.

 

I guess where my problem lies is when people rag on him for missing time as if it's something that hasn't been a career-long issue. Don't blame Drew for this, blame Theo for paying that much for this type of player.

 

Why bother complaining about Drew's injuries when we knew what we were getting when he was signed? People complain about the $14M/yr as if it's Drew's fault. It's not.

 

Drew is not responsible for playing like a $14M man. He is responsible for performing close to his career norms. If Theo misjudged that and gave him too large of a contract, blame Theo, not Drew. That's all I'm saying.

[example1]

I'm not worried about being called a Drew hater. He makes the MOST MONEY ON THIS TEAM and finishes consistently around 7th to 10th in WARP. That's not a good use of money for a team that wants to spend wisely.

 

That said, his middle-of-the-road production on a world championship caliber team can be wiped away pretty quickly with another World Series or two. Historically he compares well with "power hitters" (in eras where 20+ HRs was good).

[schillingouttheks]

I'm not focussing on his embarrassing batting average. I'm looking at his avg with RISP. Getting a hit when runners are on base is better than drawing a walk, whether you agree or not.

 

Drew is not Satan. He's just a mediocre player, locked into RF for five years. Our manager has no idea where to hit him because he's mediocre at the front end and middle of the order. 7th or 8th he can handle, but it does seem a little embarrassing to have your highest paid player batting 8th. Like Arod in the playoffs, that stigma sticks.

 

Is it Drew's fault he makes $14M/yr? It's embarrassing for Theo that he's batting 8th. Not Drew. He's been mediocre this year, I will agree with you, but his career is anything but that.

 

BTW, I re-read some of my posts, and I apologize for being a little over the top at certain points. It was unnecessary.

[example1]

I'm in agreement with you. He's done a nice job when he is playing.

 

I guess we agree about the Yin then...

 

the Yang, however...

 

I guess where my problem lies is when people rag on him for missing time as if it's something that hasn't been a career-long issue. Don't blame Drew for this, blame Theo for paying that much for this type of player.

 

Why bother complaining about Drew's injuries when we knew what we were getting when he was signed? People complain about the $14M/yr as if it's Drew's fault. It's not.

 

Drew is not responsible for playing like a $14M man. He is responsible for performing close to his career norms. If Theo misjudged that and gave him too large of a contract, blame Theo, not Drew. That's all I'm saying.

 

I do hold him accountable for missing time as much as I hold Theo accountable for having signed him. His injuries haven't been severe or career threatening, just nagging.

 

Here's how I see it. Every player can be reasonably expected to miss a certain number of games every year. Nobody should expect a Ripken Jr performance from most of our players. If Pedroia or Youkilis play 140-150 games a year then that's pretty good. I know their schedule is grueling.

 

The problem is that Drew seems to have nagging injuries that require him to miss a certain number of games per-year, and then he wants to use his "sick time" too, just taking days off here and there with slight soreness etc., If we (or he) knows that he's going to miss 20 games with his nagging injuries, should he also be given the ability to miss another 10-15 games because he wants days off? Maybe so, but if I were the highest paid person in my office I would be more conscientious about taking days off.

 

Yes, it is partly Theo's fault. I also imagine that Scott Boras didn't highlight Drew's injury history or propensity for days off when he sat with Theo and pushed for Henry to sign the check. I bet they insisted he was healthy and durable and young and able to offer a fair amount of production.

 

I can't say it enough, the WARP totals put him consistently in the middle of the team's totals. Not at the top, not at the bottom. Near the middle.

 

This affords Drew the protection of those who argue "he's not that bad!" against those who say "he's a huge disappointment". In reality he seems in between, which is probably how he wants it. He gets his days off, and his money. He doesn't get ripped a new one because he's moderately successful. In Boston it's a big deal to not be feasted upon by the media at every turn.

[The_Destroyah]

Off the top of my head' date=' Hawpe, Werth, Ethier, Justin Upton, Markakis, Pence, Ichiro, Abreu, [b']Swisher[/b], Choo, Cruz...

 

really?is Swisher any better than Drew? and Choo sucks.

 

plus were any of them available when we signed Drew?

[a700hitter]

Why bother complaining about Drew's injuries when we knew what we were getting when he was signed? People complain about the $14M/yr as if it's Drew's fault. It's not.

Probably for the same reason why we get upset when Nick green makes an error. Even though we know he sucks , we expect him to suck, and we know it's not his fault that he sucks, we get upset because he hurts our teams chance of winning. When he makes an error, we react negatively. Similarly, when Drew is not in the lineup, it negatively impacts the teams chance of winning. When I log on and see that Brian Anderson is playing, the first words that come out of my mouth are

"s*** no Drew." If that's Drew hating, well then I am guilty.

[rhet]

VORP

 

Drew is 14th among right fielders.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=522905

 

Swisher and Choo are both ahead of him.

[schillingouttheks]

I guess we agree about the Yin then...

 

the Yang, however...

 

 

 

I do hold him accountable for missing time as much as I hold Theo accountable for having signed him. His injuries haven't been severe or career threatening, just nagging.

 

Here's how I see it. Every player can be reasonably expected to miss a certain number of games every year. Nobody should expect a Ripken Jr performance from most of our players. If Pedroia or Youkilis play 140-150 games a year then that's pretty good. I know their schedule is grueling.

 

The problem is that Drew seems to have nagging injuries that require him to miss a certain number of games per-year, and then he wants to use his "sick time" too, just taking days off here and there with slight soreness etc., If we (or he) knows that he's going to miss 20 games with his nagging injuries, should he also be given the ability to miss another 10-15 games because he wants days off? Maybe so, but if I were the highest paid person in my office I would be more conscientious about taking days off.

 

Yes, it is partly Theo's fault. I also imagine that Scott Boras didn't highlight Drew's injury history or propensity for days off when he sat with Theo and pushed for Henry to sign the check. I bet they insisted he was healthy and durable and young and able to offer a fair amount of production.

 

I can't say it enough, the WARP totals put him consistently in the middle of the team's totals. Not at the top, not at the bottom. Near the middle.

 

This affords Drew the protection of those who argue "he's not that bad!" against those who say "he's a huge disappointment". In reality he seems in between, which is probably how he wants it. He gets his days off, and his money. He doesn't get ripped a new one because he's moderately successful. In Boston it's a big deal to not be feasted upon by the media at every turn.

 

Interesting. I see your point. I'm not about to go out and say that he's the best player on this team, because that would be dishonest. However, I do defend Drew quite a bit because I believe without him, we do not see a good amount of the success we have enjoyed over the past couple of years. I also feel that everyone jumped down his throat right away when he was signed, before he even stepped onto the field in a Sox uni.

 

When he's playing the game, I think he's a fine player. We have had the fortune of having some tremendously talented players on this team in recent years, so, to me, the fact that Drew finishes in the middle of the pack leads me to believe that he would be able to finish near the top on other teams. Honestly, how many other options are out there realistically that would be better than JD Drew? Obviously better options exist, but I would say there are no realistic options that provide an upgrade.

 

I will agree that I'm disappointed in how frequently he is on the field, but I do not believe that he is doing anything in Boston that he wasn't doing in LA or Atlanta. I can get a little frustrated that he is brittle every now and then, but I guess I came to expect that this was something we were going to have to suck up, so I don't bother complaining about it. Because no matter what we say or do, Drew is not doing anything abnormal to his track record.

 

As far as Henry and Theo meeting with Boras - if the Sox are just relying on Boras's take on his clients (something that they should obviously know to take with a grain of salt due to their countless negotiations with his clients), then they are flat-out stupid. I would hope that before investing $14M/yr into someone like Drew that they extensively researched his tendencies, how often he's injured, his career norms, what to expect switching leagues/parks, etc etc. I do believe they tremendously underestimated the effect that Fenway's RF would have on his power. Since most of his HRs, IIRC (I could be wrong, but this is what I remember), went to right-center at Dodger Stadium, that should have been a huge red flag that Fenway would sap most of his power. Oh well, whatever.

 

This season, I will concede that it is tougher to defend Drew. I'm hoping this is just a down year, because we have him for next season and the year after, but no one can refute the fact that JD Drew has absolutely put this team on his shoulders and carried them for stretches before. We saw that last June.

 

Good post, btw, example. I enjoyed it.

[schillingouttheks]

Probably for the same reason why we get upset when Nick green makes an error. Even though we know he sucks , we expect him to suck, and we know it's not his fault that he sucks, we get upset because he hurts our teams chance of winning. When he makes an error, we react negatively. Similarly, when Drew is not in the lineup, it negatively impacts the teams chance of winning. When I log on and see that Brian Anderson is playing, the first words that come out of my mouth are

"s*** no Drew." If that's Drew hating, well then I am guilty.

 

That's not Drew hating. I don't consider you a "Drew hater." You don't beat this dead horse. You beat other ones.

[schillingouttheks]

VORP

 

Drew is 14th among right fielders.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/statistics/sortable/index.php?cid=522905

 

Swisher and Choo, who are both mediocre, are ahead of him.

 

This year. Drew's career is not mediocre. Why are you only s***ing on Drew when there are plenty of other players on this team who have been even worse than Drew this year?

[a700hitter]

I do hold him accountable for missing time as much as I hold Theo accountable for having signed him. His injuries haven't been severe or career threatening' date=' just nagging.[/quote']

 

Yes' date=' it is partly Theo's fault. I also imagine that Scott Boras didn't highlight Drew's injury history or propensity for days off when he sat with Theo and pushed for Henry to sign the check. I bet they insisted he was healthy and durable and young and able to offer a fair amount of production.[/quote'] Why are you hating on the FO? You do realize that they have done a good job overall and brought us two World Championships? Wow, this role reversal feels very wierd. It's like Bizarro World. I agree with this entirely.

 

In Boston it's a big deal to not be feasted upon by the media at every turn.

Good point, but when the RedSox cut ties with him, the cowards in the press may take that opportunity to unload on him.

[a700hitter]

That's not Drew hating. I don't consider you a "Drew hater." You don't beat this dead horse. You beat other ones.

Yes, I do. Enough of this dead horse already. Let's discuss my pet peeves a little more.

[ORS]

I'm not focussing on his embarrassing batting average. I'm looking at his avg with RISP. Getting a hit when runners are on base is better than drawing a walk, whether you agree or not.

 

Drew is not Satan. He's just a mediocre player, locked into RF for five years. Our manager has no idea where to hit him because he's mediocre at the front end and middle of the order. 7th or 8th he can handle, but it does seem a little embarrassing to have your highest paid player batting 8th. Like Arod in the playoffs, that stigma sticks.

Mediocre is, at best, average by definition, with a lean toward inferior or below average. That does not describe JD Drew. He's better than average, not by a lot, but certainly better by modern analysis measures.

[Keeper]

really?is Swisher any better than Drew? and Choo sucks.

 

plus were any of them available when we signed Drew?

 

Choo does not suck.

[ORS]

Choo does not suck.

Exactly right. He's been a nice find for Cleveland.

[rhet]

This year. Drew's career is not mediocre. Why are you only s***ing on Drew when there are plenty of other players on this team who have been even worse than Drew this year?

 

 

That's a good question. I guess I'm s***ing on Drew because you folks are defending his subpar production. I s*** on Ortiz a couple weeks ago, so I guess it's Drew's turn. It won't be his last, as he's only just passed the halfway point of his contract.

[schillingouttheks]

That's a good question. I guess I'm s***ing on Drew because you folks are defending his subpar production. I s*** on Ortiz a couple weeks ago' date=' so I guess it's Drew's turn. It won't be his last, as he's only just passed the halfway point of his contract. [/quote']

 

I'm not defending his subpar production this season, but to say he is a mediocre player over his career is just wrong. He's done more good for this team than bad, so I don't know why people are so eager to bash him.

[example1]

Why are you hating on the FO? You do realize that they have done a good job overall and brought us two World Championships? Wow, this role reversal feels very wierd. It's like Bizarro World. I agree with this entirely.

 

Good point, but when the RedSox cut ties with him, the cowards in the press may take that opportunity to unload on him.

 

I think that my assessment of the FO has been fair overall. In most instances--including not spending talent to get older talent--I think they are right to play it conservatively. In the instance of Drew, I think they needed to get someone who was a middle of the order-type bat to solidify the outfield.

 

If Drew is the example of a 'mistake' that you and I can agree on, then I would say that their mistakes have been pretty minimal overall. Drew would be a middle of the order bat on other teams and he would help any club, assuming that cost isn't taken into account.

 

The biggest reason you and I agree that he was a mistake is because of the cost--something you usually say you don't think twice about. Apparently JD Drew is where you draw you line.

 

If he were paid MLB minimum and were a rookie then he would be a really promising young player. His WARP, though not too impressive, is better than Ellsbury's (and that accounts for defense). If Reddick were starting on this team and did what JD has been doing then we would probably think it was pretty good. It is just a let down for a top pick FA acquisition who gets paid more than Beckett or Youkilis.

 

We all know this FO can do better with 14m. That said, I don't lose much sleep over it.

[a700hitter]

IThe biggest reason you and I agree that he was a mistake is because of the cost--something you usually say you don't think twice about. Apparently JD Drew is where you draw you line. :lol:We all know this FO can do better with 14m. That said' date=' I don't lose much sleep over it.[/quote']I always agreed that we overpaid for Lugo too.

[rhet]

It's not the money per se that is the problem. It's the length/size that essentially locks out any improvement possibilities for the position for five years.

[suns]

Exactly right. He's been a nice find for Cleveland.

 

Chooooooo.rocks!!