Red Sox Re-Acquire Alex Gonzalez

[TedWilliams101]

They both suck' date=' I just think it's funny people still think Gonzalez is a competent defensive SS.[/quote']

 

What I think is funny is that our offense has been awful since the AS break... so we go and get Gonzo and downgrade an already weak spot in the lineup? WTF. Marginal defensive upgrade, but huge offensive downgrade.

[TheKilo]

What I think is funny is that our offense has been awful since the AS break... so we go and get Gonzo and downgrade an already weak spot in the lineup? WTF. Marginal defensive upgrade' date=' but huge offensive downgrade.[/quote']

 

Well said.

[Dojji]

Gonzalez > woodward

[BoSox21]

What I think is funny is that our offense has been awful since the AS break... so we go and get Gonzo and downgrade an already weak spot in the lineup? WTF. Marginal defensive upgrade' date=' but huge offensive downgrade.[/quote']

 

You really think we downgraded from the .178 Nick Green has hit since June? Face it, we're getting NOTHING offensively out of the SS position from here on out, might as well at least install a competent glove there

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

What I think is funny is that our offense has been awful since the AS break... so we go and get Gonzo and downgrade an already weak spot in the lineup? WTF. Marginal defensive upgrade' date=' but huge offensive downgrade.[/quote']

What part of 'he wasn't acquired for offense, he was acquired for defense' isn't sticking?

 

 

This is like me slamming CC Sabathia because he's not a good baserunner.

[TedWilliams101]

What part of 'he wasn't acquired for offense, he was acquired for defense' isn't sticking?

 

 

This is like me slamming CC Sabathia because he's not a good baserunner.

 

It's great to have him as a defensive upgrade... he still has to be in the lineup though. That analogy is retarded. CC only ever sees the base paths for maybe 2 games a season, where as Gonzo will be at the dish every game he plays.

[Dojji]

Umm. CC Sabathia is not required to run the bases nearly as often as we'll be hoping Gonzo comes up with something with the stick.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

It's great to have him as a defensive upgrade... he still has to be in the lineup though.

 

Yeah, and?

 

He was acquired for defense. If it ever gets to the point where we need to him to produce something on a somewhat-consistent basis, we're not winning anything anyway.

 

That analogy is retarded. CC only ever sees the base paths for maybe 2 games a season, where as Gonzo will be at the dish every game he plays.

 

CC = acquired for pitching, not for baserunning

Gonzalez = acquired for defense, not for offense

[CrespoBlows]

I see that you are trying to be somewhat positive about Alex Gonzalez. I don't understand why he inspires even that much confidence in someone. He may be a good defender, but his glove won't come anywhere close to offsetting the horrendous offensive output the Red Sox are going to be seeing from his bat.

 

Nick Green was doing the same thing, and there's a chance that Gonzalez will make it look even worse.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I see that you are trying to be somewhat positive about Alex Gonzalez. I don't understand why he inspires even that much confidence in someone.

 

Not even, I just see that the team traded for him because of his defense. They weren't any better options out there at this point.

 

He may be a good defender, but his glove won't come anywhere close to offsetting the horrendous offensive output the Red Sox are going to be seeing from his bat.

 

Nick Green's the better hitter, and Gonzalez is the better defender. Since neither of them are good offensive players, I'll take the superior defender.

[Dipre]

Nick Green's a better hitter than no one.

 

He was overperforming by a lot. Now that that's corrected itself, we're seeing the real, .153 hitting Nick Green.

[Paradisecity]

I guess the bigger question is, why are we trying to upgrade our defense when our problem is scoring runs?

 

We've lost 17 games since the AS break. In those losses, 4 times we have scored 4 or more runs, and 11 times we have been held to 2 or fewer.

 

 

So who gives a f*** about WHY they picked up Alex Gonzalez? If he can't help us manufacture runs, he isn't improving our chances of winning.

 

Take a lineup that didn't score for 30 innings and replace a marginal bat with a piss poor one? It doesn't matter how you slice it, that is a bad strategy.

[BSN07]

Better Defense= less runs scored by opponent= less runs you have to score to win the game?

[Dojji]

Actually Paradisecity has a point. If you're averaging fewer than 4 runs a game, and I think we're at that point since the break, you run into diminishing returns trying to improve by run prevention alone. The best shortstop in the world is only so many runs better than an average one. At some point you really do have to pay attention to the other side of the ball. And I think we're at the point where a small offensive upgrade can make a big difference.

[Dipre]

Actually Paradisecity has a point. If you're averaging fewer than 4 runs a game' date=' and I think we're at that point since the break, you run into diminishing returns trying to improve by run prevention alone. The best shortstop in the world is only so many runs better than an average one. At some point you really do have to pay attention to the other side of the ball. And I think we're at the point where a small offensive upgrade can make a big difference.[/quote']

 

What SS that provides an offensive upgrade was available at the waiver wire?

 

Face it, Green isn't hitting or catching the ball. So getting someone who can at least catch it is a plus.

[Paradisecity]

Better Defense= less runs scored by opponent= less runs you have to score to win the game?

 

When you are scoring 2 or fewer runs in 11 of 28 games, defense isn't going to help you win. And sacrificing hitting for defense in actually making it more likely that you will lose.

 

Put it this way. 3 of our last 5 losses have been shutouts. Please explain to me how improving our defense will help us win these games. We can have perfect pitching, and then force it to extra innings and hope to score a run? How about 15 innings?

 

I'd like to say that the 15 inning game was a fluke, but these numbers aren't lying. When we are losing, we are losing because we aren't scoring.

[BSN07]

Poster 1: "Agon can't hit"

Poster 2: " he can field, he wasn't brought into hit"

Poster 1: "But the Sox offense needs help"

Poster 2: "There wasn't any good offensive players available, so they got a someone who can field the SS positions"

 

and repeat...

 

Poster 1: " But Agon can't hit"

Poster 2: " he can field, he wasn't brought into hit"

Poster 1: "But the Sox offense needs help"

Poster 2: "There wasn't any good offensive players available, so they got a someone who can field the SS positions"

 

and repeat...

 

Poster 1: "Agon can't hit"

Poster 2: " he can field, he wasn't brought into hit"

Poster 1: "But the Sox offense needs help"

Poster 2: "There wasn't any good offensive players available, so they got a someone who can field the SS positions"

 

 

 

This is basically the whole thread:D

[BSN07]

When you are scoring 2 or fewer runs in 11 of 28 games, defense isn't going to help you win. And sacrificing hitting for defense in actually making it more likely that you will lose.

 

Put it this way. 3 of our last 5 losses have been shutouts. Please explain to me how improving our defense will help us win these games. We can force it to extra innings and hope to score a run? How about 15 inning?

 

I'd like to say that the 15 inning game was a fluke, but these numbers aren't lying. When we are losing, we are losing because we aren't scoring.

 

Okay I was just throwing it out there as a possible reason.

 

In any world though, Agon/Green>Green/Woodward

 

If you look at it that way, the Sox did indeed improve the SS position on the whole.

[Paradisecity]

What SS that provides an offensive upgrade was available at the waiver wire?

 

Face it, Green isn't hitting or catching the ball. So getting someone who can at least catch it is a plus.

 

http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4025

[Dipre]

http://espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=4025

 

I advocated for Guzman, but the money owed to him doesn't make him a very attractive option apparently.

 

Besides, the Nats pulled him back in the end.

[Dojji]

I would have been willing to put up with Guzman, but my ideal SS is a speedy guy with a strong glove and a .340+ OBP, an Erick Aybar type basically not Captain Empty Batting Average and his albatross deal.

 

I wonder if there's any way we could acquire Maicer Izturis. Not exactly a world beater but he'd be a huge improvement from what we're serving currently at the shortstop position. UZR/150 likes his defense at short, and I like his speed and OBP. If you believe in such things he has a reputation as a clutch hitter as well.

[Dipre]

I would have been willing to put up with Guzman, but my ideal SS is a speedy guy with a strong glove and a .340+ OBP, an Erick Aybar type basically not Captain Empty Batting Average and his albatross deal.

 

I wonder if there's any way we could acquire Maicer Izturis. Not exactly a world beater but he'd be a huge improvement from what we're serving currently at the shortstop position UZR/150 likes his defense at short, and I like his speed and OBP.

 

Izturis is a very important piece for a contender.

 

No chance Anaheim trades him.

[Paradisecity]

I dont care about the money owed him. We have a glaring hole at SS. The only way I see not getting a guy like Guzman (who was available) as even approaching acceptable is if we are getting a major superstar replacement for the SS position this offseason (which probably wont happen).

 

If we want to be bargain basement shoppers, we are going to have a mediocre team, which is what we have right now.

 

 

"We've got mum's for 14.99"

" Don't you have a nice 80, or 100 dollar bottle of champagne?"

"You can get a whole bunch of mums"

 

 

Thats what the Red Sox have been collecting since last offseason. A whole bunch of mums.

[Dojji]

Izturis is a very important piece for a contender.

 

No chance Anaheim trades him.

 

They do have a couple of other people who could play that role though. We might have to overpay for him, whuch for a guy like Izturis is enough to nix the deal, but I'd like to hope we're at least talking to the Angels about a couple different infielders.

[Dipre]

They do have a couple of other people who could play that role though. We might have to overpay for him' date=' whuch for a guy like Izturis is enough to nix the deal, but I'd like to hope we're at least talking to the Angels about a couple different infielders.[/quote']

 

They probably didn't even put him on waivers.

 

The trade deadline has passed, remember?

[Dojji]

Oh no, I should have made it clearer -- I'm talking more about the offseason. There's NWIH Izturis clears waivers. Above average defensive SS with a .340 career OBP and a good burst of speed? Without any contract encumberment? No way.

 

But I would trade Lowrie for Izturis straight up even in the offseason. Even if we also get a second SS Since he also has extensive experience at third where we have an aging incumbent and NO prospects, Izturis makes a ton of sense for us.

[TheKilo]

I guess the bigger question is, why are we trying to upgrade our defense when our problem is scoring runs?

 

We've lost 17 games since the AS break. In those losses, 4 times we have scored 4 or more runs, and 11 times we have been held to 2 or fewer.

 

 

So who gives a f*** about WHY they picked up Alex Gonzalez? If he can't help us manufacture runs, he isn't improving our chances of winning.

 

Take a lineup that didn't score for 30 innings and replace a marginal bat with a piss poor one? It doesn't matter how you slice it, that is a bad strategy.

 

Yes yes yes yes yes yes

 

Well said

[Dipre]

Yes yes yes yes yes yes

 

Well said

 

David Ortiz and Jason Varitek and are as big a problem on offense as the SS position.

[TheKilo]

What SS that provides an offensive upgrade was available at the waiver wire?

 

Face it, Green isn't hitting or catching the ball. So getting someone who can at least catch it is a plus.

 

The marginal upgrade on defense has such a minimal impact it's ridiculous - people really need to stop talking like it's going to have an impact. It's not a plus. It's a lateral move at best.

[Dipre]

The marginal upgrade on defense has such a minimal impact it's ridiculous - people really need to stop talking like it's going to have an impact. It's not a plus. It's a lateral move at best.

 

So you contend we should've kept a Green/Woodward tandem instead of a Gonzales/Green one?