Kevin Youkilis is selfish

[BoSox21]

he got to the pitcher.

 

Horseshit excuse. Besides, Gabbard never even hit Sexson whereas not only did Youkilis get hit, he got hit the night before.

 

and wtf are you talking about? Sexson got to Gabbard and started wailing on him

 

http://www.cylive.com/content/22860/Richie_Sexson_Charges_the_Mound_Against_Kason_Gabbard

[jacksonianmarch]

We'll see.

[Dipre]

Jacko, there's a difference between what you want to happen and what is going to happen.

 

Live with it.

[BoSox21]

We'll see.

 

so do you admit that if, after an appeal, Youkilis gets more than five games then MLB needs to seriously look into Bob Watson's ability to do his job without bias?

[jacksonianmarch]

Speaking of being wrong, did you happen to see my post about yankee second half numbers in yesterday's game thread?

[TheKilo]

Jacko:

 

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/do_first_half_second_half_splits_mean_anything/

[Dipre]

Jacko:

 

http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/do_first_half_second_half_splits_mean_anything/

 

Post of the year.

[jacksonianmarch]

There are a lot of counfounders here. First of all, Detroit and Boston have been playing plunk for a little while. The Sox seem to be on both the receiving and the giving end of the plunk game with other teams as well. Youks getting hit a bunch has to help his cause. But this is also the first episode of a batter charging and reaching the mound in the bigs in a couple months. Watson likes to set examples.

[Dipre]

Jacko' date=' there's a difference between [b']what you want to happen[/b] and what is going to happen.

 

Live with it.

 

.....

[redsoxrules]

The Red Sox are going to have to play Lowell at 3B for an extended period.

 

THIS

 

you could tell on Lowell's trot around the bases on his HR's that he was favoring his bad hip

having Lowell play 3rd base for a long period of time might land him on the DL for good

[yankees228]

I won't go back and quote all the posts, but I do agree with what Dipre has been saying. I don't think you can really blame Youkilis for what he did. His emotions got the best of him. It happens to everyone.

 

However, I still don't think it's a good thing for the Red Sox. Losing Youkilis, your best offensive and defensive player, will hurt. This, in my opinion, cannot be argued.

[Dipre]

I won't go back and quote all the posts, but I do agree with what Dipre has been saying. I don't think you can really blame Youkilis for what he did. His emotions got the best of him. It happens to everyone.

 

However, I still don't think it's a good thing for the Red Sox. Losing Youkilis, your best offensive and defensive player, will hurt. This, in my opinion, cannot be argued.

 

You hit the nail in the head about as hard as you could.

 

Excellent post.

[BoSox21]

There are a lot of counfounders here. First of all' date=' Detroit and Boston have been playing plunk for a little while. The Sox seem to be on both the receiving and the giving end of the plunk game with other teams as well. Youks getting hit a bunch has to help his cause. But this is also the first episode of a batter charging and reaching the mound in the bigs in a couple months. Watson likes to set examples.[/quote']

 

You're just reaching now. If Tex charged Garza and got more than five games, you'd have Bob Watson's family tied up in your basement right now.

[CrespoBlows]

I won't go back and quote all the posts' date=' but I do agree with what Dipre has been saying. I don't think you can really blame Youkilis for what he did. His emotions got the best of him. It happens to everyone.[/quote']

 

Of course you can. Does personal responsibility go out the window, because you got hit with a pitch? Youkilis has to have known that charging the mound would get him suspended. Knowing that, he chose to go to the mound anyway.

 

The blame is all on Youkilis. Porcello probably provoked it, but Youkilis still made his own decision. That included firing his helmet at a pitcher.

 

6 games.

[CrespoBlows]

THIS

 

you could tell on Lowell's trot around the bases on his HR's that he was favoring his bad hip

having Lowell play 3rd base for a long period of time might land him on the DL for good

 

Chris Woodward will play two or three games, when Youk goes down.

[yankees228]

Of course you can. Does personal responsibility go out the window, because you got hit with a pitch? Youkilis has to have known that charging the mound would get him suspended. Knowing that, he chose to go to the mound anyway.

 

The blame is all on Youkilis. Porcello probably provoked it, but Youkilis still made his own decision. That included firing his helmet at a pitcher.

 

6 games.

 

I'm guessing (may or may not be true) that a possibly suspension did not go through Youkilis' mind when he made the decision to charge the mound. He got caught up in the heat of the moment. Obviously it's his fault. I think we just have to remember the human element of the situation.

[ManRam]

I'm guessing (may or may not be true) that a possibly suspension did not go through Youkilis' mind when he made the decision to charge the mound. He got caught up in the heat of the moment. Obviously it's his fault. I think we just have to remember the human element of the situation.

 

It's easy to sit on the couch and say "well, he only got hit". If I was hit by a bitch going 90+ I'd be pretty f***ing pissed too.

[CrespoBlows]

It's easy to sit on the couch and say "well' date=' he only got hit". If I was hit by a bitch going 90+ I'd be pretty f***ing pissed too.[/quote']

 

Yeah, I'd be extremely pissed, but I would be thinking about missing six games for charging the mound.

[Dipre]

Yeah' date=' I'd be extremely pissed, but I would be thinking about missing six games for charging the mound.[/quote']

 

Hat's off to you if you're able to think rationally after getting HBP for the second straight day, and having been the subject of of other team's retaliation all year long.

[BoSox21]

Yeah' date=' I'd be extremely pissed, but I would be thinking about missing six games for charging the mound.[/quote']

 

have you ever done anything out of anger without thinking about the consequences first?

[CrespoBlows]

Hat's off to you if you're able to think rationally after getting HBP for the second straight day' date=' and having been the subject of of other team's retaliation all year long.[/quote']

 

Yep.

 

Part of the "human element," has been its wonderous ability to think.

[schillingouttheks]

I hated it. I agree that it was a stupid thing to do. Here's the deal - baseball is a calm game on the field for the most part, and very rarely (if at all) do one's emotions factor into the game's outcome. I understand that Youkilis was angry, I understand that he snapped - it happens. However, when you're making your living playing a game on a team for which you are a key aspect and needed almost every day, this is not the way to go about venting your frustration. I never bought into any of the "lighting a spark under their ass" through charging the mound/plunking someone, or clubhouse chemistry, or any of that crap because it focuses on the emotional side of a baseball game way more than on the fundamentals and brains of the game. The latter two are way more important in long-term success. There are two sides that get "fired up" in a brawl - don't forget that. AND, if you had to determine who's more pissed off after last night's fiasco, I would say the TIGERS. Youk went after their rookie pitcher, got to him, tried to take him down, but the rookie TOSSED YOUK DOWN LIKE A LITTLE **********. If you're going to charge a rookie pitcher, at least don't let him take you down. Okay?

 

1) Lowell's hip is hanging by a thread. If one more thing happens to him because of exaggerating the injury, he could possibly land on the DL for the rest of the season, if not force him to RETIRE. It's THAT big of a deal.

 

2) WHY THE f*** DID HE ALSO THROW THE HELMET? What's getting lost in here is that everyone keeps forgetting that Porcello is a rookie. I'm not saying that he should get a pass for plunking players because he's young, but I don't think that will look too good in the commissioner's eyes. Not only that, but he threw his helmet. That alone, without starting a brawl, could get someone suspended for a game or two. I see a 6- or 7-game suspension for him, and I'm praying it gets shaved down. Like someone said, this is the first time in awhile a batter was able to reach the pitcher.

 

3) Our positional flexibility just went down the shitter. If something happens to Lowell while Youkilis is out, what happens? Woodward and Green are in the same lineup? If Varitek needs a rest? Ortiz is playing 1B with Baldelli or Reddick at DH. You've got to be s***ing me. It's like the 2006 plague struck our lineup this time. And even our pitching is quite suspect.

 

I know it's only for about a week, but this was not the smart thing to do. The team just went on an 0-6 road trip through TB and NY. You think they need any more "firing up"? Great, let's just make matters worse by losing our all-star MVP candidate first/third baseman. In a season where one game can make a difference, losing Youkilis for hopefully not more than 5 of them is a big deal because it's mid-August.

 

The only positive that can come out of this, obviously, is if it gets everyone else to start hitting. No, they won't be hitting because it "lit a fire under their asses", but rather because they need to f***ing step up and the law of averages kicked in. No one can suck this bad for an extended period of time. I'm glad they won the game, and Lowell was only in the game because Youk got thrown out.

 

I hope they make it through this, but I dunno. They can, but they may not. They won that game in 2004 because they played a better game the rest of the way than the Yankees did, and got lucky that Mo served one up to Mueller. It was the turning point in the season because it was a game that they were not going to win without HITTING, and it just so happened that they did just that.

[CrespoBlows]

have you ever done anything out of anger without thinking about the consequences first?

 

Yes, many times. The punishment often exceeds the instant reward.

[Dipre]

Yes' date=' many times. The punishment often exceeds the instant reward.[/quote']

 

You've still done it though.

[BoSox21]

Yes' date=' many times. The punishment often exceeds the instant reward.[/quote']

 

ok, so why is Youkilis making a similar decision so reprehensible? aside from the arguments involving "Sox best hitter and defender", "pennant race" and "$10 million a year"

[Dipre]

I hated it. I agree that it was a stupid thing to do. Here's the deal - baseball is a calm game on the field for the most part, and very rarely (if at all) do one's emotions factor into the game's outcome. I understand that Youkilis was angry, I understand that he snapped - it happens. However, when you're making your living playing a game on a team for which you are a key aspect and needed almost every day, this is not the way to go about venting your frustration. I never bought into any of the "lighting a spark their ass" through charging the mound/plunking someone, or clubhouse chemistry, or any of that crap because it focuses on the emotional side of a baseball game way more than on the fundamentals and brains of the game. The latter two are way more important in long-term success. There are two sides that get "fired up" in a brawl - don't forget that. AND, if you had to determine who's more pissed off after last night's fiasco, I would say the TIGERS. Youk went after their rookie pitcher, got to him, tried to take him down, but the rookie TOSSED YOUK DOWN LIKE A LITTLE **********. If you're going to charge a rookie pitcher, at least don't let him take you down. Okay?

 

1) Lowell's hip is hanging by a thread. If one more thing happens to him because of exaggerating the injury, he could possibly land on the DL for the rest of the season, if not force him to RETIRE. It's THAT big of a deal.

 

2) WHY THE f*** DID HE ALSO THROW THE HELMET? What's getting lost in here is that everyone keeps forgetting that Porcello is a rookie. I'm not saying that he should get a pass for plunking players because he's young, but I don't think that will look too good in the commissioner's eyes. Not only that, but he threw his helmet. That alone, without starting a brawl, could get someone suspended for a game or two. I see a 6- or 7-game suspension for him, and I'm praying it gets shaved down. Like someone said, this is the first time in awhile a batter was able to reach the pitcher.

 

3) Our positional flexibility just went down the shitter. If something happens to Lowell while Youkilis is out, what happens? Woodward and Green are in the same lineup? If Varitek needs a rest? Ortiz is playing 1B with Baldelli or Reddick at DH. You've got to be s***ing me. It's like the 2006 plague struck our lineup this time. And even our pitching is quite suspect.

 

I know it's only for about a week, but this was not the smart thing to do. The team just went on an 0-6 road trip through TB and NY. You think they need any more "firing up"? Great, let's just make matters worse by losing our all-star MVP candidate first/third baseman. In a season where one game can make a difference, losing Youkilis for hopefully not more than 5 of them is a big deal because it's mid-August.

 

The only positive that can come out of this, obviously, is if it gets everyone else to start hitting. No, they won't be hitting because it "lit a fire under their asses", but rather because they need to f***ing step up and the law of averages kicked in. No one can suck this bad for an extended period of time. I'm glad they won the game, and Lowell was only in the game because Youk got thrown out.

 

I hope they make it through this, but I dunno. They can, but they may not. They won that game in 2004 because they played a better game the rest of the way than the Yankees did, and got lucky that Mo served one up to Mueller. It was the turning point in the season because it was a game that they were not going to win without HITTING, and it just so happened that they did just that.

 

We're usually on the same page about a lot of things, but not here.

 

Youkilis is paid to hit the ball, catch the ball and throw the ball.

 

Nowhere in his job description is there a clause that reads "You are to become this team's beaning puppet".

 

Again, it was stupid, but calling him out on it is not very smart either, since there is only so much a man will take.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

In no way is this Youk's fault. He was defending himself. The result (Lowell/Woodward's increased playing time) is unfortunate, but Youk finally cracking after being everyone's throwing target for the past three years is not to blame. He's not a robot, he's a person.

[CrespoBlows]

You've still done it though.

 

ok' date=' so why is Youkilis making a similar decision so reprehensible? aside from the arguments involving "Sox best hitter and defender", "pennant race" and "$10 million a year"[/quote']

 

When did I excuse my own behavior?

[schillingouttheks]

We're usually on the same page about a lot of things, but not here.

 

Youkilis is paid to hit the ball, catch the ball and throw the ball.

 

Nowhere in his job description is there a clause that reads "You are to become this team's beaning puppet".

 

Again, it was stupid, but calling him out on it is not very smart either, since there is only so much a man will take.

 

I understand that, and I'd be pretty pissed too. However, when I'm at work, I try to keep it as professional as possible. Would you ever go balls out and jump on a worker from a rival company because he was insulting you all the time while you were on the clock? I know that's not the same as having a 90-mph heater chucked at you consistently, but the outcome of good job performance from me doesn't often involve being a part of a team who is striving to be the best in the world at what they do.

 

Look, I understand, I really, really do. We may have to agree to disagree on this, so we can continue agreeing.

 

I'm not saying that I don't expect Youkilis to crack - I am saying that he needs to be aware that in his line of work, the consequences of cracking affect way more people than just himself and hurts his team.

[v2freak]

Horseshit excuse. Besides, Gabbard never even hit Sexson whereas not only did Youkilis get hit, he got hit the night before.

 

and wtf are you talking about? Sexson got to Gabbard and started wailing on him

 

http://www.cylive.com/content/22860/Richie_Sexson_Charges_the_Mound_Against_Kason_Gabbard

 

Good point.

 

Sexson 6 games, reduced to 5

-charged mound

-threw helmet

-had a pitch thrown to him high and almost away (first pitch)

-worth noting that he is a huge guy who could have caused serious injury

 

Youkilis ? games

-charged mound

-threw helmet

-hit the day before

-evidence to suggest Porcello hit Youk on purpose, by also going in tight on Martinez

-pennant race

 

I'd be surprised if Youk got more than what Sexson got, given these circumstances.