Drew, Worth it? or not?

[The_Destroyah]

Figured with all the Drew debates Id create a post and try to get what everyone thinks.

[Dipre]

Figured with all the Drew debates Id create a post and try to get what everyone thinks.

 

Make a poll.

 

Let's measure the Drew hating on this board.

[The_Destroyah]

Make a poll.

 

Let's measure the Drew hating on this board.

 

ahead of you chief :thumbsup:

[Dipre]

ahead of you chief :thumbsup:

 

Dude.

 

What the f*** with the question.

 

I punched "yes" thinking it was about "Is Drew awesome?"

 

I've been cheated!

[TedWilliams101]

Make a poll.

 

Let's measure the Drew hating on this board.

 

Why is it Drew hating when we think he hasn't performed up to expectations in Boston? I thought that was disappointment, not hate. The only real hate I've seen on this board is for Lugo and for those who don't worship Drew.

[TheKilo]

This poll asks two separate questions.

 

Is he worth his contract? Probably not. But he's not as far off as some of the mouth breathing Sox fans would have you believe.

 

Is he the problem on this team? He's not having a fantastic offensive season, but a 107 OPS+ with his defense in RF at Fenway has a lot of value.

 

I'll say it again, the main problems with this team are the back end of the rotation and David Ortiz. Not much else.

[The_Destroyah]

Dude.

 

What the f*** with the question.

 

I punched "yes" thinking it was about "Is Drew awesome?"

 

I've been cheated!

 

ha my bad...does it take a Mod to edit it or are the results forever skewed?

I wanted to give a question that wasnt black or white, maybe you should read the question carefully next time.

[Dipre]

This poll asks two separate questions.

 

Is he worth his contract? Probably not. But he's not as far off as some of the mouth breathing Sox fans would have you believe.

 

Is he the problem on this team? He's not having a fantastic offensive season, but a 107 OPS+ with his defense in RF at Fenway has a lot of value.

 

I'll say it again, the main problems with this team are the back end of the rotation and David Ortiz. Not much else.

 

Jason Varitek.

[The_Destroyah]

sorry for the contrasting wording inbetween the title and the poll itself should have thought out the title a bit better.

[Dipre]

Why is it Drew hating when we think he hasn't performed up to expectations in Boston? I thought that was disappointment' date=' not hate. The only real hate I've seen on this board is for Lugo and for those who don't worship Drew.[/quote']

 

Of course it's not hate.

 

I apologize for the harsh use of words.

 

I need to re-establish my definition of the word "hate" i suppose.

[Spudboy]

Of course it's not hate.

 

I apologize for the harsh use of words.

 

I need to re-establish my definition of the word "hate" i suppose.

 

Everyone here has to. Has anyone actually said that they hate Drew?

 

NO! Just disappointed that he has not done more to earn his pay.

[Dipre]

Everyone here has to. Has anyone actually said that they hate Drew?

 

NO! Just disappointed that he has not done more to earn his pay.

 

Sarcasm.

 

Detect it, my friend.

[Spudboy]

Just for shits and giggles, let's see if we can get an objective opinion here.

 

Hey Jacko... do you think Drew was worth 14/5 when he was signed (given the prevailing market for players like him) and do you think that he is worth 14/5 now given his performance with the Sox to date?

[The_Destroyah]

Just for shits and giggles, let's see if we can get an objective opinion here.

 

Hey Jacko... do you think Drew was worth 14/5 when he was signed (given the prevailing market for players like him) and do you think that he is worth 14/5 now given his performance with the Sox to date?

 

obviously im not Jacko but I will awnswer

 

to Q1: yes

 

to Q2: maybe not but given the ability of Hindsight id still sign him just with maybe a little less $$$ BUT how much less would he have taken and still signed?

[jacksonianmarch]

Just for shits and giggles, let's see if we can get an objective opinion here.

 

Hey Jacko... do you think Drew was worth 14/5 when he was signed (given the prevailing market for players like him) and do you think that he is worth 14/5 now given his performance with the Sox to date?

 

At the time of his signing, it was fair market value for a guy who OPS'd close to .900. The biggest issue I had with the deal was the fact that he just didnt stay healthy. And while he has certainly not been an iron horse, he has stayed healthy much more than I thought he would.

 

Now in terms of retrospectively viewing the signing. Well, there are a couple ways one must look at it. Most of these deals that sign players into their late 30s are typically made by one of two measures. The first measure is their initial performance. Most teams will pay a player for a long term deal, expecting them to significantly contribute at the beginning of the deal while trailing off towards the end. The second is the unrealistic at time expectation that a player can sustain a performance into their post prime yrs

 

Well, Drew's 2007 was a pretty horrible yr by his standards. Yes, he had a good playoff series, but if you paid players for their playoff performance only, you would run a lot of Mark Lempke's out there. Drew was paid for to be a middle of the order bat and a guy who can get on base. He got on base, but at a bit less of a level than his career numbers would suggest. But the 2007 power outage was the biggest change for Drew. A guy who has SLG's consistently in the .500 range, to drop to .423 was unheard of.

 

So for yr 1, he was significantly overpaid.

 

On to yr two. Now, in yr two, Drew did have a good amount of missed games. But, he hit 8 more homers in 31 less games and had an OPS well over his career numbers. So, even though he was injured for a larger part of the yr, his production was well worth the contract.

 

So for yr 2, contract deserved, although fragile

 

On to yr three. This season, he is seeing his lowest BA in a full season of his career at this point. He is also slipping in terms of power. Not sure why, but the .448SLG would be the third lowest of his career, behind yr 1 in Boston and one of his seasons in StL. His IsoPatience is actually up from his career mark, but the BA is dragging down his overall OBP. And his OPS at .816 would be the third lowest of his career as well.

 

Thus far in yr 3, he is overpaid.

 

So if you look at it like that, then thus far, he is not earning his contract from an offensive POV. And to be honest with you, the defensive argument is valid, but if all they wanted was D, you'd see some skinny jackrabbit out there rather than lumbering JD. That being said, a guy who OPS's over .800 is significantly useful. So while I certainly wouldnt pin everything on JD, he thus far, has not earned the contract. AND, seeing as he will be playing out his yr 34 and yr 35 seasons after this in a sox uni, I would not expect to see the lofty prime JD Drew numbers in those yrs either. This is beginning to look like a "bad contract" but the player is still useful and should still be in RF for the sox for the next 2 yrs.

[ManRam]

This poll asks two separate questions.

 

Is he worth his contract? Probably not. But he's not as far off as some of the mouth breathing Sox fans would have you believe.

 

Is he the problem on this team? He's not having a fantastic offensive season, but a 107 OPS+ with his defense in RF at Fenway has a lot of value.

 

I'll say it again, the main problems with this team are the back end of the rotation and David Ortiz. Not much else.

 

Agree with this post. I think you hit it dead on.

[P3dro1a15]

Dude.

 

What the f*** with the question.

 

I punched "yes" thinking it was about "Is Drew awesome?"

 

I've been cheated!

Did the same thing, hit yes thinking I was supporting Drew, In no way can you blame these struggles on Drew, he gets on base at a high rate, plays great defense, case in point that amazing catch on Friday, and yesterday he was one of the only people hitting, and also last year when he carried our sorry ass team in June

[The_Destroyah]

Did the same thing' date=' hit yes thinking I was supporting Drew, In no way can you blame these struggles on Drew, he gets on base at a high rate, plays great defense, case in point that amazing catch on Friday, and yesterday he was one of the only people hitting, and also last year when he carried our sorry ass team in June[/quote']

 

well taking into account the 2 that "accidently" voted yes the majority of us thinks Drew is not a problem...

[schillingouttheks]

I also hit yes by mistake...

[The_Destroyah]

well this poll was kind of a fail on my part...

[TheKilo]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1031447/1/index.htm

[rhet]

At the time of his signing, it was fair market value for a guy who OPS'd close to .900. The biggest issue I had with the deal was the fact that he just didnt stay healthy. And while he has certainly not been an iron horse, he has stayed healthy much more than I thought he would.

 

Now in terms of retrospectively viewing the signing. Well, there are a couple ways one must look at it. Most of these deals that sign players into their late 30s are typically made by one of two measures. The first measure is their initial performance. Most teams will pay a player for a long term deal, expecting them to significantly contribute at the beginning of the deal while trailing off towards the end. The second is the unrealistic at time expectation that a player can sustain a performance into their post prime yrs

 

Well, Drew's 2007 was a pretty horrible yr by his standards. Yes, he had a good playoff series, but if you paid players for their playoff performance only, you would run a lot of Mark Lempke's out there. Drew was paid for to be a middle of the order bat and a guy who can get on base. He got on base, but at a bit less of a level than his career numbers would suggest. But the 2007 power outage was the biggest change for Drew. A guy who has SLG's consistently in the .500 range, to drop to .423 was unheard of.

 

So for yr 1, he was significantly overpaid.

 

On to yr two. Now, in yr two, Drew did have a good amount of missed games. But, he hit 8 more homers in 31 less games and had an OPS well over his career numbers. So, even though he was injured for a larger part of the yr, his production was well worth the contract.

 

So for yr 2, contract deserved, although fragile

 

On to yr three. This season, he is seeing his lowest BA in a full season of his career at this point. He is also slipping in terms of power. Not sure why, but the .448SLG would be the third lowest of his career, behind yr 1 in Boston and one of his seasons in StL. His IsoPatience is actually up from his career mark, but the BA is dragging down his overall OBP. And his OPS at .816 would be the third lowest of his career as well.

 

Thus far in yr 3, he is overpaid.

 

So if you look at it like that, then thus far, he is not earning his contract from an offensive POV. And to be honest with you, the defensive argument is valid, but if all they wanted was D, you'd see some skinny jackrabbit out there rather than lumbering JD. That being said, a guy who OPS's over .800 is significantly useful. So while I certainly wouldnt pin everything on JD, he thus far, has not earned the contract. AND, seeing as he will be playing out his yr 34 and yr 35 seasons after this in a sox uni, I would not expect to see the lofty prime JD Drew numbers in those yrs either. This is beginning to look like a "bad contract" but the player is still useful and should still be in RF for the sox for the next 2 yrs.

 

While I agree with most of this, allow me to make three points.

 

1. Durability is important. Although Drew has a good career OPS, if he averages only 64 total RBIs a year, he is underperforming. A 800 run team should expect to get at least 100 RBI out of a $14 million middle of the order hitter. Of course, aside from only one season in his 11 year career, Drew hasn't reached that threshold.

 

2. The 5-year $70 million commitment essentially locks the team out of considering a replacement if Drew is marginally underperforming. So the team needs to live with mediocrity if he doesn't produce.

 

3. I know I'm in the minority here, but I believe his defense is overrated. Does he have the tools? Yes. But, like all things Drew, the best shows up only sporadically.

 

So, while I don't believe Drew is among the Sox top five problems this year, his contract limits the Sox options as he continues to underperform.

[SoxSport]

Drew has been a good player for the Sox. His problem is they had to pay Boras money to get him. That means his salary is inflated by 30-40%. Boras is a thorn in the side of MLB. Everybody outside of NY hates him.

[Dipre]

While I agree with most of this, allow me to make three points.

 

1. Durability is important. Although Drew has a good career OPS, if he averages only 64 total RBIs a year, he is underperforming. A 800 run team should expect to get at least 100 RBI out of a $14 million middle of the order hitter. Of course, aside from only one season in his 11 year career, Drew hasn't reached that threshold.

 

2. The 5-year $70 million commitment essentially locks the team out of considering a replacement if Drew is marginally underperforming. So the team needs to live with mediocrity if he doesn't produce.

 

3. I know I'm in the minority here, but I believe his defense is overrated. Does he have the tools? Yes. But, like all things Drew, the best shows up only sporadically.

 

So, while I don't believe Drew is among the Sox top five problems this year, his contract limits the Sox options as he continues to underperform.

 

If you're using RBI in your argument, then it simply won't be taken very seriously.

[BoSox21]

Drew has been a good player for the Sox. His problem is they had to pay Boras money to get him. That means his salary is inflated by 30-40%. Boras is a thorn in the side of MLB. Everybody outside of NY hates him.

 

he's the best at his job. good for him.

[CrespoBlows]

Drew has been a good player for the Sox. His problem is they had to pay Boras money to get him. That means his salary is inflated by 30-40%. Boras is a thorn in the side of MLB. Everybody outside of NY hates him.

 

Boras is a revolutionary. Hail Scott Boras.

[rhet]

If you're using RBI in your argument' date=' then it simply won't be taken very seriously.[/quote']

 

That's unfortunate.

[Dipre]

That's unfortunate.

 

No no i'm serious.

 

Not trying to be a dick or anything.

 

It's just that you know how of a team-oriented stat RBI is.

 

And people will quickly point that the hit 1st for significant time.

[CrespoBlows]

To be fair, J.D. Drew has put up very good defensive numbers his last two years with the Red Sox. He was atrocious in 2007, but he put up a +6.4 UZR in 2008, and has already up to a +8.0 this year.

[rhet]

No no i'm serious.

 

Not trying to be a dick or anything.

 

It's just that you know how of a team-oriented stat RBI is.

 

And people will quickly point that the hit 1st for significant time.

 

First of all, he didn't hit first for a significant time. Averaging 12 games a year at leadoff is not significant. The guy is a middle of the order run producer who is averaging 120 runs produced a season. Not good enough for a winning offense. And not good enough for the financial commitment the team has made to him.

 

And again, the biggest issue is the lock in. When you lock a player in like this, it prohibits the team from upgrading if he underperforms, as Drew has done.