Why we shouldn't freak out just yet.

[SCM33]

It's not supposed to make you feel better.

 

It's an indication of the fact that this team is underperforming, and most of the time, this things correct themselves.

 

I hope you are right, but they are 8-13 since the break, and one of the biggest reasons they were so successful in the first half, Jason Bay, hasnt hit in months. Throw in the fact that the bullpen just got maxed out over the last few games and the injuries that are adding up, I just dont know. I want to be wrong though, and I hope you are right.

[Dipre]

I hope you are right' date=' but they are 8-13 since the break, and one of the biggest reasons they were so successful in the first half, Jason Bay, hasnt hit in months. Throw in the fact that the bullpen just got maxed out over the last few games and the injuries that are adding up, I just dont know. I want to be wrong though, and I hope you are right.[/quote']

 

I'm gonna take my lumps for apparently being the only idiot who thinks this team will right itself.

 

Seriously, this team has the potential to go on a run.

 

But, whatever, i'll take my lumps regardless.

[TheKilo]

There is definitely something to be said for the Sox having been able to lose 6 games out of 6 and still be tied for the Wild Card lead.

 

Part of me continues to hope that this is simply a second offensive slump that might disappear soon. I believe this is a good team and that they have the players to make a deep run into the playoffs.

 

All that said, if they can't do better against TB and NY then it won't matter, they'll be on the outside looking in come playoff time.

 

I really had a feeling that they were going to blow this one after getting the 2-1 lead. It doesn't bother me too much... just a bad dream.

 

I was watching with my fiance and future brother in law, once Martinez hit the HR I turned to them and said "it's going to really suck when they blow this."

 

When Tex's ball left the yard they both looked at me with the weirdest look on their faces. I could do nothing but laugh, and bid them goodnight and drove home.

[yankees228]

I'll be calling a lot of people out when the Yanks hit a bad stretch (and they will) and this team starts playing to its expected level.

 

As Kilo would say, "Things are never as good as they seem when you're winning, and never as bad as they seem when you're losing."

[Dipre]

As Kilo would say' date=' "Things are never as good as they seem when you're winning, and never as bad as they seem when you're losing."[/quote']

 

I totally have a man crush on you.

[BSN07]

Still not freaked out.

[jacksonianmarch]

I'm gonna take my lumps for apparently being the only idiot who thinks this team will right itself.

 

Seriously, this team has the potential to go on a run.

 

But, whatever, i'll take my lumps regardless.

 

If you get any production out of the #3-5 slot in the rotation, you will make a run. You are guaranteed to get a solid pitching performance 40% of the time with the way Beckett and Lester are pitching.

[Dipre]

If you get any production out of the #3-5 slot in the rotation' date=' you will make a run. You are guaranteed to get a solid pitching performance 40% of the time with the way Beckett and Lester are pitching.[/quote']

 

That's all i'm saying.

 

Holy s***, Jacko the voice of reason.

[jacksonianmarch]

That's all i'm saying.

 

Holy s***, Jacko the voice of reason.

 

Yep. Baseball has always proven that good pitching leads to sustained winning. And if the sox get anything out of Buchholz, Penny and Tazawa from here on out, they will put together a winning streak. It is just difficult to sustain winning when you have Beckett throw a gem, Buchholz s*** a brick, Lester throw a gem, then the other two s*** bricks.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I'm gonna take my lumps for apparently being the only idiot who thinks this team will right itself.

 

Seriously, this team has the potential to go on a run.

 

But, whatever, i'll take my lumps regardless.

Nope, I'll join you. No homo.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

How about now?

I thought you didn't care anymore?

[Teddyballgame10]

I'm gonna take my lumps for apparently being the only idiot who thinks this team will right itself.

 

Seriously, this team has the potential to go on a run.

 

But, whatever, i'll take my lumps regardless.

 

I'm with you.

[P3dro1a15]

I'm gonna take my lumps for apparently being the only idiot who thinks this team will right itself.

 

Seriously, this team has the potential to go on a run.

 

But, whatever, i'll take my lumps regardless.

I'm right there with you I have said on every board recently we will hit again and that behind Beckett and Lester we will be fine

[example1]

Alright, I know that many of you are of the opinion that Brad Penny sucks and that he doesn't deserve to pitch anymore. However, there are more than a few things about last night's outing that really seem indicative of him turning it around.

 

No, I'm just kidding. Penny sucks. His continued role with this team represents a really unfortunate reality. Their 4th and 5th starters are only as good as every other team's 4th and 5th starters, if not worse.

 

This has turned into a relatively bad season for this ownership group. They have the team they wanted, created with careful attention paid to contract length and franchise flexibility. The way I see it, their prognosis would actually be good if they are able to make the playoffs with injuries to 40% of their rotation for a good portion of the season, with a slumped Ortiz, injury to starting SS and nagging injuries to 3B, RF and LF.

 

It is also entirely possible that this team won't make the playoffs at all, which I would call a disappointment. Despite the injuries and poor performance of Ortiz, there is enough talent on this team to make the playoffs and beat out Texas and Tampa Bay. A team with a healthy Beckett, Lester, Papelbon, Youkilis, Pedroia, Ellsbury and Drew should have a really good shot at the playoffs. That's a better core of players than a lot of teams have. Fortunately, that's the core they will be moving forward with.

 

Teixeira absolutely shifted the balance of power in the AL East. I don't think his impact wolud have been has great without having added Sabathia and Burnett. Last year's pitchers and this year's offense would have this team battling the Sox at 15 games above .500. Instead they solidified their offense and added a #1 and a #2 pitcher to their rotation. I would really like to know what happened in that meting with John Henry...

 

The Sox are in need of someone who they can build the lineup around. Victor Martinez was an excellent addition in terms of depth if they're able to find that power bat. I will be shocked if they don't try to address this aggressively in the offseason but I'm not sure who that player would be given who is available and who is under contract.

 

I will be happy with this team and optimistic about their future if they are able to pull it together and show that their core of players is enough to get them to the playoffs in a very tough AL East.

[Teddyballgame10]

Really good post example. IF we had Tex we would be leading the division right now. NO ONE here knows what happen in that meeting and how far both us and the Yankees were willing to go to get Tex. Had we topped the Yankees offer would they have offered more? Probably. I wanted Tex BAD, I wish they would of at least matched the Yankees last offer to drive the price up a little and even had a shot at getting him. This is a completely different team with Tex. Anyway we didnt get him. Argue as much as you want if we had a chance or not, if he was destined for the Yankees because of the $$ or not, we have beaten the horse to death on that subject. For the record I stated several times how concerned I was about Lowell and Ortiz.

 

As of the team we have now. . .In a seven game series the Yankees do not scare me. In the playoffs you need 2 aces. We have them. The Yankees have CC vs Beckett and I will take Beckett every time. (nice 7.92 ERA in the playoffs CC) We all saw what Lester did in the playoffs last year. I am not afraid of AJ because he ave up 6 walks in 7.2 innings last time we saw him without one of our best hitters. Was not to hot last time he played us too. He is not a pitcher I fear in the postseason. Games 3 is a toss up with Joba, who should have got smacked around last outing vs us, to bad Smoltz was still sucking dick. We may have Dice-K who I think will be alright when he comes back bc how rested he will be. If not him the game will become a slugfest and I trust our pen more then the Yankees.

 

The Yankees line up. How many of them have performed well in the postseason beside Jeter and Posada? When it comes to crunch time, I'll take my guys over them. Yankees may be hot now but I do not fear them when the pressure comes on.

 

As long as we make the playoffs I feel fine.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Really good post example. IF we had Tex we would be leading the division right now. NO ONE here knows what happen in that meeting and how far both us and the Yankees were willing to go to get Tex. Had we topped the Yankees offer would they have offered more? Probably. I wanted Tex BAD' date=' I wish they would of at least matched the Yankees last offer to drive the price up a little and even had a shot at getting him. This is a completely different team with Tex. Anyway we didnt get him. Argue as much as you want if we had a chance or not, if he was destined for the Yankees because of the $$ or not, we have beaten the horse to death on that subject. For the record I stated several times how concerned I was about Lowell and Ortiz.[/quote']

 

Why does everyone keep bringing this up? It's over, Teixeira was not coming here. If the Yankees wanted him, the Yankees were going to get him, especially considering that they knew how much the Red Sox could have used him. This isn't complicated, it's common sense. People keep complaining about it and keep saying how they have come to terms with the fact that IT WASN'T GOING TO HAPPEN, but they perpetuate the conflict/idea anyway. Which is it?

[jacksonianmarch]

whatever makes you sleep at night J_E

[Dipre]

People who say we'd be in 1st with Tex have to be joking.

 

 

This team's problem is clearly starting pitching, and although i was a huge supporter of signing Tex, and we probably would be better in the standings with him, he can't start games, so.....

[SoxSport]

Dice-K was the season killer. Sure, other things like Ortiz declining further and injuries to Lowell and Lugo limiting their defense have hurt. But they haven't had a no.3 starter all season. Wake was good only when Beckett and Lester were bad early.

 

Tito has a weakness in that he stays with ageing veterans for too long, and doesn't make adjustments quickly enough.You can go back to Gagne and Timlin, and this year Ortiz and now Tek.Tek shouldn't be a starter at this point, as most everybody except Tito thinks. Ortiz should have been dropped in the order much earlier--where he has hit better. Granted Epstein didn't provide him with a suitable replacement for Dice-K mid-season, so he shares some of the blame. That was Theo's biggest mistake.

[example1]

Most teams that lose a big time starter in the middle of the season don't replace that starter mid season. They swallow the injury and their team is hurt as a result. The off-season is the time to evaluate the team and make big moves to change its composition drastically. Making moves to adjust to this particular season or that particular injury is how overpaying for talent happens. Dice-K was a season killer...

 

I also disagree with Dipre. I think pitching is less of a problem than finding that middle of the order bat moving forward. This team is primed to benefit from someone who can truly hit 4th and move everyone else to a more appropriate slot.

 

The good thing is that they aren't far from having a team with lots of versatility and depth. The bad news is that I just don't see here that player is going to come from. All optimism last year that someone like Lars Anderson might be able to come in and have a marginal impact--even enough to spell Youk at 1B (or, by extension, Lowell at 3B ) is gone at this point. Adrian Gonzalez, Prince Fielder, and Adam Dunn all come to mind as guys who might offer that power in the middle of the order if the Sox give up enough...

 

Or they can go after more pitchers, which would also help.

[Dipre]

Most teams that lose a big time starter in the middle of the season don't replace that starter mid season. They swallow the injury and their team is hurt as a result. The off-season is the time to evaluate the team and make big moves to change its composition drastically. Making moves to adjust to this particular season or that particular injury is how overpaying for talent happens. Dice-K was a season killer...

 

I also disagree with Dipre. I think pitching is less of a problem than finding that middle of the order bat moving forward. This team is primed to benefit from someone who can truly hit 4th and move everyone else to a more appropriate slot.

 

The good thing is that they aren't far from having a team with lots of versatility and depth. The bad news is that I just don't see here that player is going to come from. All optimism last year that someone like Lars Anderson might be able to come in and have a marginal impact--even enough to spell Youk at 1B (or, by extension, Lowell at 3B ) is gone at this point. Adrian Gonzalez, Prince Fielder, and Adam Dunn all come to mind as guys who might offer that power in the middle of the order if the Sox give up enough...

 

Or they can go after more pitchers, which would also help.

 

So you contend the main reason this team has been sucking isn't the absolute disasters that have been the 3-5 spots in the rotation until Bucholz started putting it together?

 

You're reaching buddy.

[Dojji]

Adam Dunn is not a #4 hitter and offensive stalwart of a great lineup. He's a heck of a guy to have around as a third power hitter but he's not a first or second power hitter in a good lineup.

 

The fact is that we're not really hurting that much for power between Bay, Youks, Martinez, and what we're getting from Lowell and Drew. An upgrade would be nice if you can fit it in, but that's a bit of a big if with our corners all filled with quality players.

 

Our upgrades are either going to happen up the middle or are going to come at the cost of playing time for an existing roster player. Fortunately, VMart's versatility helps us there -- we could theoretically make a move for a power hitting first baseman (by which I mean an ACTUAL first baseman and not Adam Dunn) and make VMart the fulltime catcher. Other than that, the best offseason moves are to find a way to retain Bay and to get a two way player for the shortstop position.

[example1]

So you contend the main reason this team has been sucking isn't the absolute disasters that have been the 3-5 spots in the rotation until Bucholz started putting it together?

 

You're reaching buddy.

 

They've scored 4 runs or fewer in 17 of the 33 games since the All-Star break. 10 of those 17 have been against TEX, TB or NY, who they have only played 13 games agains total during that stretch.

 

Again, in the 13 games against TEX, TB or NY since the All-Star Break, they've scored 4 runs or fewer 10 times. They were shut out 3 times since the All-Star break, all during games not started by Beckett or Lester.

 

They've scored 2 or fewer runs 11 times out of those 33 games.

 

This isn't a fearsome offense, and with Ortiz scuffling, Bay sitting, Drew asking out of games, etc., I don't see why that's hard to grasp.

 

The Yankees (and Sox teams of the past) accidentally s*** out runs. They find runs that they forgot about in their pants when they take them out of the dryer.

 

This team has had to work very, very hard to get them.

[example1]

Adam Dunn is not a #4 hitter and offensive stalwart of a great lineup. He's a heck of a guy to have around as a third power hitter but he's not a first or second power hitter in a good lineup.

 

The fact is that we're not really hurting that much for power between Bay, Youks, Martinez, and what we're getting from Lowell and Drew. An upgrade would be nice if you can fit it in, but that's a bit of a big if with our corners all filled with quality players.

 

Our upgrades are either going to happen up the middle or are going to come at the cost of playing time for an existing roster player. Fortunately, VMart's versatility helps us there -- we could theoretically make a move for a power hitting first baseman (by which I mean an ACTUAL first baseman and not Adam Dunn) and make VMart the fulltime catcher. Other than that, the best offseason moves are to find a way to retain Bay and to get a two way player for the shortstop position.

 

I'm just curious about Adam Dunn... what makes you think he's not a #4 hitter? His OBP is above .400 and his SLG and OPS are both better than Teixeira's. If this team could get rid of Ortiz (send him to Seattle... hint hint) I think he would be a more than appropriate upgrade as a DH.

 

Not an offensive stalwart of a great lineup? He's never been in a great lineup, so how do you know?

[Dipre]

I'm just curious about Adam Dunn... what makes you think he's not a #4 hitter? His OBP is above .400 and his SLG and OPS are both better than Teixeira's. If this team could get rid of Ortiz (send him to Seattle... hint hint) I think he would be a more than appropriate upgrade as a DH.

 

Not an offensive stalwart of a great lineup? He's never been in a great lineup, so how do you know?

 

A 4 hitter has to drive in runs, Dunn's lack of contact makes him ill-suited for such a role.

[Dojji]

I guess in the end my problem lies with his batting average. As long as he can hit at least .240 or so he should be OK, but low average sluggers make me a bit nervous because they don't have to fall back that far before their lack of AVG impacts their OBP and SLG and begins to neutralize their primary advantages. Carlos Pena suffered from that for years before he got it together down in Tampa.

 

If Dunn is your best hitter and he goes into a BABIP driven tailspin for a month, you're in trouble even if his numbers wind up looking good at the end of the year. However, if you surround him with a lineup full of other competent power hitters, he might thrive in a way that'll blow your mind.

 

I would replace Ortiz with Dunn at the moment in a heartbeat. I would not count on him as our best power hitter, with Youks ahead of him and Bay, Lowell and Drew behind him (in other words as the #5 hitter) he'd be a great option.

[example1]

A 4 hitter has to drive in runs' date=' Dunn's lack of contact makes him ill-suited for such a role.[/quote']

 

True. 100+ RBI in 4 of last 5 years (headed for 5 of 6) on pretty bad teams is a clear representation that he can't drive in runs. Thanks for pointing that out.

[Dipre]

True. 100+ RBI in 4 of last 5 years (headed for 5 of 6) on pretty bad teams is a clear representation that he can't drive in runs. Thanks for pointing that out.

 

Yeah Carlos Pena also has a couple 100 RBI seasons, you usually have them when you hit 4th, however, if instead of trying to be a douche you'd take what i said into context, you'd understand.

 

But let's leave it at that.

[example1]

I guess in the end my problem lies with his batting average. As long as he can hit at least .240 or so he should be OK, but low average sluggers make me a bit nervous because they don't have to fall back that far before their lack of AVG impacts their OBP and SLG and begins to neutralize their primary advantages. Carlos Pena suffered from that for years before he got it together down in Tampa.

 

If Dunn is your best hitter and he goes into a BABIP driven tailspin for a month, you're in trouble even if his numbers wind up looking good at the end of the year. However, if you surround him with a lineup full of other competent power hitters, he might thrive in a way that'll blow your mind.

 

I would replace Ortiz with Dunn at the moment in a heartbeat. I would not count on him as our best power hitter, with Youks ahead of him and Bay, Lowell and Drew behind him (in other words as the #5 hitter) he'd be a great option.

 

 

I am suggesting Dunn under the assumption that there aren't other options through FA and that trading for that piece would be very, very expensive in terms of talent. There is definitely some skill to be derived from someone with such a low AVG who manages to have a career. 385 OBP. (.420 this season).

 

I'm not NECESSARILY advocating for Adam Dunn being the boost to the lineup next year, but if we all acknowledge that with the necessary signing of Bay or Holliday, the continued contracts of Drew, Papi and Lowell, etc., adding Dunn for next year and then having him come off the books potentially for draft picks (same with V-Mart) wouldn't be a horrible place to be a year from now.

[Dojji]

I want to be clear that I'd look at Dunn mostly as a DH and not want him in the field in non-emergency situations. that said, I have nothing against acquiring Dunn as long as we don't stop there.

 

I'd really like to grab Hardy. Shortstop is our biggest point of deficit with this lineup as it is and there really isn't a lot of downside to a Hardy acquisition.. At his current level he's an upgrade on what we have, and that's sad. If he gets his 20 HR form back, the difference will be amazing. And as a righthanded pull hitter, a Mike Lowell style bounceback is far from out of the question.