8/4 at the Trop

[TheKilo]

The worst AB of the inning was when Saito walked Michel Hernandez anyway.

[rhet]

With 2 outs, the proper strategy was to walk the bases loaded and face the rookie.

[Dipre]

I'd rather face Longoria than Zobrist

 

Lol.

 

Got a laugh from this one.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Lol.

 

Got a laugh from this one.

 

Prove me wrong

[Dipre]

I'd rather face Longoria than Zobrist

 

Prove me wrong

 

Longoria is the best hitter on the Rays.

 

He kills the Sox with a 1.000+ OPS against them.

 

He's murdering righties to the tone of an .892 OPS which consists mostly of SLG%.

 

Not to mention the fact that Zobrist is in the midst of a fluke season, and has only 4 RBI's and a SLG% below .400 since the break, you can pin that on his BABIP correcting itself from the incredible .347 he was hitting before the break.

 

And if you wanna contend that Zobrist is a better hitter than Longoria, more power to you.

 

As for the strikeout argument, Longo has 95, and Zobrist has 70, but guess who has more PA's?

[Rdsxmbnt]

Longoria is the best hitter on the Rays.

I disagree

 

He kills the Sox with a 1.000+ OPS against them.

Like I said above this really doesn't matter. What matters is that exact scenario last night with Saito on the mound. It doesn't matter that Longoria has done in the past against OTHER pitchers. He was 1 for 2 with a HR against Saito, but he also struck out the other time, that doesn't tell me nearly enough to make a sound judgement about the SS numbers vs. the season long numbers.

 

He's murdering righties to the tone of an .892 OPS which consists mostly of SLG%.

That's not a whole lot different than his numbers vs. LHP, Longoria has pretty even splits. But anyway Zobrist has .921 OPS vs. RHP which is indeed higher.

Not to mention the fact that Zobrist is in the midst of a fluke season, and has only 4 RBI's and a SLG% below .400 since the break, you can pin that on his BABIP correcting itself from the incredible .347 he was hitting before the break.

 

RBIs, really? And I'm not sure where you're looking but he's batting .284/.385/.448/.832 in the second half with a higher BABIP than in the first half (.320 vs. .340). And Longoria? His BABIP in the first half was .324...

And if you wanna contend that Zobrist is a better hitter than Longoria, more power to you.

ISO: .271 vs. .259, don't mind if I do

As for the strikeout argument, Longo has 95, and Zobrist has 70, but guess who has more PA's?

 

4.62 PA/K for Longoria and 5.37 PA/K for Zobrist. I overstated this a bit but still Zobrist has the edge and compared to the PA/BB (9.14 for Longoria vs. 6.37 for Zobrist) I'd say Zobrist's discipline is better pretty easily.

[Dipre]

I disagree

 

Then you live in another planet.

 

 

Like I said above this really doesn't matter. What matters is that exact scenario last night with Saito on the mound. It doesn't matter that Longoria has done in the past against OTHER pitchers. He was 1 for 2 with a HR against Saito, but he also struck out the other time, that doesn't tell me nearly enough to make a sound judgement about the SS numbers vs. the season long numbers.

 

It's not about the sample, it's the fact that Longoria's a better hitter than Zobrist.

 

 

That's not a whole lot different than his numbers vs. LHP, Longoria has pretty even splits. But anyway Zobrist has .921 OPS vs. RHP which is indeed higher.

 

OBP fueled, to say the least.

 

RBIs, really? And I'm not sure where you're looking but he's batting .284/.385/.448/.832 in the second half with a higher BABIP than in the first half (.320 vs. .340). And Longoria? His BABIP in the first half was .324...

 

ISO: .271 vs. .259, don't mind if I do

 

I actually got last 15 days mixed up with post all-star so i'll give you that, however, the fact that he's coming back down to earth in the second half.

 

However, you're trying to compare Zobrist and Longoria is still amusing to me.

 

21 % LD% AND 20.6% HR/FB, yup, that'll sustain itself

 

Hint: It will not.

 

4.62 PA/K for Longoria and 5.37 PA/K for Zobrist. I overstated this a bit but still Zobrist has the edge and compared to the PA/BB (9.14 for Longoria vs. 6.37 for Zobrist) I'd say Zobrist's discipline is better pretty easily.

 

You didn't talk about discipline, you talked about propensity to strike out, which is almost identical in the two of them.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Then you live in another planet.

 

 

 

 

It's not about the sample, it's the fact that Longoria's a better hitter than Zobrist.

 

 

 

 

OBP fueled, to say the least.

 

 

 

I actually got last 15 days mixed up with post all-star so i'll give you that, however, the fact that he's coming back down to earth in the second half.

 

However, you're trying to compare Zobrist and Longoria is still amusing to me.

 

21 % LD% AND 20.6% HR/FB, yup, that'll sustain itself

 

Hint: It will not.

 

 

 

You didn't talk about discipline, you talked about propensity to strike out, which is almost identical in the two of them.

 

So basically you're argument is based around you saying that Longoria is a better hitter than Zobrist...

 

OBP fueled? The ISO for both guys vs. RHP is basically dead even, .255 to .254...with the kicker that Zobrist's OBP is 30 points higher

 

The league average LD% was 20.3 last year, I don't see anything ridiculous about his figure. Probably his HR/FB will go down but I don't see it dipping below 19%, again his new mechanics have given him a lot of power out of that swing.

[Looch Ness Monster]

Typical of stat geeks to try and say Zobrist is a better hitter than Longoria using formulas that were made up by "experts". Watch the games, please.

[Dipre]

So basically you're argument is based around you saying that Longoria is a better hitter than Zobrist...

 

OBP fueled? The ISO for both guys vs. RHP is basically dead even, .255 to .254...with the kicker that Zobrist's OBP is 30 points higher

 

The league average LD% was 20.3 last year, I don't see anything ridiculous about his figure. Probably his HR/FB will go down but I don't see it dipping below 19%, again his new mechanics have given him a lot of power out of that swing.

 

It's ridiculous because his AO/GO is 0.87.

 

That means that he hits the ball on the ground about 50% of the time he makes contact, but outta the 50% of the time he's hitting the ball on the air, 4 out of 10 times he's either homering or hitting liners.

 

Yup, it'll sustain itself indeed.

[CrespoBlows]

Typical of stat geeks to try and say Zobrist is a better hitter than Longoria using formulas that were made up by "experts". Watch the games' date=' please.[/quote']

 

Typical meathead who is utterly clueless when someone brings up a point that doesn't consist of tuff, clutch, or grit.

[CrespoBlows]

Zobrist isn't better than Longoria, but why are we debating between those two? Joe Dillion was due behind Zobrist.

[Cocos Disciples]

Zobrist isn't better than Longoria' date=' but why are we debating between those two? Joe Dillion was due behind Zobrist.[/quote']

 

Exactly. Get the force at all bases and face one of the team's worst hitters.

[Dipre]

Zobrist isn't better than Longoria' date=' but why are we debating between those two? Joe Dillion was due behind Zobrist.[/quote']

 

True.

 

Loading the bases for the force at any base was probably the best way of going about it.

[Looch Ness Monster]

Typical meathead who is utterly clueless when someone brings up a point that doesn't consist of tuff' date=' clutch, or grit.[/quote']

 

Not really..I just don't need any formulas to tell me Longoria's the better player. There's just too many factors that make every single statistic have one flaw or another. Is there a stat that talks about Longoria's performance while he's toughing out a minor injury that's affecting his playing ability?

 

Perhaps the INJISO%+OPS-GP+Hits+Quotes in the paper about injuries

[CrespoBlows]

Not really..I just don't need any formulas to tell me Longoria's the better player.

 

There's a difference between objectivity and subjectivity.

 

There's just too many factors that make every single statistic have one flaw or another.

 

I am 100% sure that you have not the slightest idea of what goes into those statistics.

 

Is there a stat that talks about Longoria's performance while he's toughing out a minor injury that's affecting his playing ability?

 

itz called grit

[Looch Ness Monster]

So is anybody that doesn't obsess with sabermetric stats a pink hat fanr? Even if they've been a fan for over 12 years? I'm guessing that's where this is going.

[Rdsxmbnt]

It's ridiculous because his AO/GO is 0.87.

 

That means that he hits the ball on the ground about 50% of the time he makes contact, but outta the 50% of the time he's hitting the ball on the air, 4 out of 10 times he's either homering or hitting liners.

 

Yup, it'll sustain itself indeed.

 

Longoria: 37.2 GB%

Zobrist: 40.7 GB%

 

(league average: ~43%)

 

HR/FB

Longoria: 17.6%

Zobrist: 20.7%

 

LD%:

Longoria: 17.6%

Zobrist: 21.4%

(league average: ~20%)

 

I don't really see anything particularly ridiculous or completely unsustainable with these figures

[Rdsxmbnt]

So is anybody that doesn't obsess with sabermetric stats a pink hat fanr? Even if they've been a fan for over 12 years? I'm guessing that's where this is going.

 

No, YOU'RE the one who attacked the stats people and YOU'RE the one putting words in people's mouths

[Dipre]

Longoria: 37.2 GB%

Zobrist: 40.7 GB%

 

(league average: ~43%)

 

HR/FB

Longoria: 17.6%

Zobrist: 20.7%

 

LD%:

Longoria: 17.6%

Zobrist: 21.4%

(league average: ~20%)

 

I don't really see anything particularly ridiculous or completely unsustainable with these figures

 

Of course you don't.

[CrespoBlows]

So is anybody that doesn't obsess with sabermetric stats a pink hat fanr? Even if they've been a fan for over 12 years? I'm guessing that's where this is going.

 

Wow. Typical meathead. Resorts to inventing arguments to save face.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Of course you don't.

 

Right...because there is nothing ridiculous to be seen there like I've been saying all along

[Dipre]

Right...because there is nothing ridiculous to be seen there like I've been saying all along

 

He's hitting liners and homers at an above averagerate while hitting flyballs at a below average rate.

 

Yup, nothing wrong there.

[TheKilo]

Typical of stat geeks to try and say Zobrist is a better hitter than Longoria using formulas that were made up by "experts". Watch the games' date=' please.[/quote']

 

lol

 

Can I change my vote about wanting to pitch to Longoria?

[Dipre]

lol

 

Can I change my vote about wanting to pitch to Longoria?

 

He weakened my argument considerably.

[Cocos Disciples]

And the longest single game thread in Talksox history is closed...