Bard vs Papelbon

[a700hitter]

So fear is the common denominator here?

No, hitter focus is a big component. No one wants to make the last out. Although batter focus is incredible at the major league level, believe it or not the focus level varies in 600 plate appearances over a season. It is more accute with the game on the line. For starting pitching, a big component is fatigue. Another component is that the batter has stored knowledge of what he saw in his fist three ABs.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

No.

 

What i'm saying is, you don't ship Papelbon off and hand the CL role to Bard.

 

He has to earn it.

 

He has better stuff, but he needs to prove he can harness it for prolonged periods.

 

In other words, Bard has to run Papelbon out of town.

Perhaps you didn't notice that I mentioned Ramon Ramirez as another possibility, should Bard be too unpolished initially.

[Dipre]

Perhaps you didn't notice that I mentioned Ramon Ramirez as another possibility' date=' should Bard be too unpolished initially.[/quote']

 

I noticed, but ignored it.

 

You're overvaluing Ramirez, he's way too wild to be the closer of this team.

 

Not only that, but he lacks the out pitch against lefties to really be considered a shutdown relieve, since his changeup is basically a "show me" pitch.

[a700hitter]

Every bit the idiotic copout I expected.

It's not a copout at all. Sometimes you need to experience something for yourself before you can understand it. That's why I asked Tom Seaver about pitching the 9th and I didn't ask Rusty Staub.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

No' date=' hitter focus is a big component. No one wants to make the last out.[/quote']

 

But they do want to make 3rd, 5th, and 7th inning outs?

 

Although batter focus is incredible at the major league level, believe it or not the focus level varies in 600 plate appearances over a season. It is more accute with the game on the line.

 

If this babble is true, then pitchers should be blowing saves a lot more often than they do.

 

For starting pitching, a big component is fatigue.

 

Terrific.

 

Another component is that the batter has stored knowledge of what he saw in his fist three ABs.

 

What the f*** does this have to do with closers? I'm not advocating that Bard pitch complete games, if you didn't notice.

[a700hitter]

I noticed, but ignored it.

 

You're overvaluing Ramirez, he's way too wild to be the closer of this team.

 

Not only that, but he lacks the out pitch against lefties to really be considered a shutdown relieve, since his changeup is basically a "show me" pitch.

 

Also, I don't think RR has ever been a closer.

[Dipre]

Please, don't turn this into a shitfest J_E and a700.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

It's not a copout at all. Sometimes you need to experience something for yourself before you can understand it. That's why I asked Tom Seaver about pitching the 9th and I didn't ask Rusty Staub.

Yes it is a copout. You asked me if I've ever pitched, in retaliation to me stating that anyone who gets 9th inning jitters shouldn't be in the majors. I asked you to explain how it is more difficult, and you went and hammered out 'FIGYER IT 0WT URSELF LOLOL'.

 

That, is a copout.

[a700hitter]

But they do want to make 3rd, 5th, and 7th inning outs?

 

 

 

If this babble is true, then pitchers should be blowing saves a lot more often than they do.

 

 

 

Terrific.

 

 

 

What the f*** does this have to do with closers? I'm not advocating that Bard pitch complete games, if you didn't notice.

 

You asked for an explanation. I gave it to you, you nasty little twit. Like I said get off your ass join a team and pitch a game. Then you will understand, or just ask Tom Seaver or some other pitcher.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Also' date=' I don't think RR has ever been a closer.[/quote']

Who gives a s***? When he settled down in KC, Joakim Soria was already fully entrenched in that role. Because Soria's the better pitcher.

[ms_sox]

I think Papbelbon will remain the Red Sox's closer until his save record starts to drop dramatically. As long as the number of saves remains stellar (as it still is), they won't care if how he gets them is "pretty" or not. Only fans care if they're "pretty." There's no reason to string up Paps yet.

 

That said, Paps certainly gives me more headaches than ever before. Obviously the crown will be passed eventually, always does. Whether it will be Bard, who the F knows. In a couple years, who knows where Bard will be or how he'll be performing.

[Dipre]

Also' date=' I don't think RR has ever been a closer.[/quote']

 

And he shouldn't be one.

 

Ever.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

YEEEEEEEE-HAW!!!!!!!

[a700hitter]

Please' date=' don't turn this into a shitfest J_E and a700.[/quote']He should turn down the vloume. As usual, he goes from immature twit to obnoxious f*** in 0 seconds.

[BoSox21]

Putting someone in the closer's role is like putting a hitter in the leadoff spot. Theoretically, they should be able to perform the same way they did in their prior role but for whatever reason, it doesn't work out. Baseball players are creatures of habit so it's not as easy as just sliding Bard into the closer role and expecting the same results.

[CrespoBlows]

O Rly?

 

Carlos Marmol says hello.

 

2.20 ERA as a SU man.

 

4.80 ERA in the CL role.

 

2.48 ERA in save situations

 

4.91 ERA in non-save situations.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I noticed, but ignored it.

 

You're overvaluing Ramirez, he's way too wild to be the closer of this team.

 

Not only that, but he lacks the out pitch against lefties to really be considered a shutdown relieve, since his changeup is basically a "show me" pitch.

Awfully effective at getting guys out the past two seasons.

[CrespoBlows]

You asked for an explanation. I gave it to you' date=' you nasty little twit. Like I said get off your ass join a team and pitch a game. Then you will understand, or just ask Tom Seaver or some other pitcher.[/quote']

 

Yeah, beer league softball is a great starting point.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

He should turn down the vloume. As usual' date=' he goes from immature twit to obnoxious f*** in 0 seconds.[/quote']

lol

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Yeah' date=' beer league softball is a great starting point.[/quote']

lol

[CrespoBlows]

Putting someone in the closer's role is like putting a hitter in the leadoff spot. Theoretically' date=' they should be able to perform the same way they did in their prior role but for whatever reason, it doesn't work out. Baseball players are creatures of habit so it's not as easy as just sliding Bard into the closer role and expecting the same results.[/quote']

 

Statistical evidence to support that claim?

[a700hitter]

Yeah' date=' beer league softball is a great starting point.[/quote']

Tom Seaver pitched beer softball?

 

BTW have you ever played beer softball for an A division team?

[CrespoBlows]

Tom Seaver pitched beer softball.

 

BTW have you ever played beer softball for an A division team?

 

You can't seriously be pursuing this point like it had some sort of validity.

[a700hitter]

You can't seriously be pursuing this point like it had some sort of validity.

Don't sink to J_E Level. You are better than that.

[Dipre]

2.48 ERA in save situations

 

4.91 ERA in non-save situations.

 

Run them up in the 8th vs 9th.

 

Remember, when you rack up a hold, you do it in a save situation.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Don't sink to J_E Level. You are better than that.

So you are presenting your experience pitching to beer-bellied, gray-haired clowns as something to be proud of and the reason why you know so much more about late-inning gut checks than any other know-nothing here.

 

I do not envy you.

[CrespoBlows]

Don't sink to J_E Level. You are better than that.

 

No, it's foolish. You are using your experience in a different sport, in a totally different competition level to validate your claim that has never been proven. When people challenge your point, you act the part of a snob.

 

You've already sunk to that level.

[Dipre]

Statistical evidence to support that claim?

 

Some players have had problems adjusting to either the lead-off spot or out of it.

 

Give me a couple minutes, and i'll come up with Alfonso Soriano's numbers, he's the textbook example of BoSox's theory, it's not as left field as you may think.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Some players have had problems adjusting to either the lead-off spot or out of it.

 

Give me a couple minutes, and i'll come up with Alfonso Soriano's numbers, he's the textbook example of BoSox's theory, it's not as left field as you may think.

Alfonso Soriano is a s***** lead-off hitter because his career-high OBP is .351.

[CrespoBlows]

Some players have had problems adjusting to either the lead-off spot or out of it.

 

Give me a couple minutes, and i'll come up with Alfonso Soriano's numbers, he's the textbook example of BoSox's theory, it's not as left field as you may think.

 

Proves absolutely nothing.