Sox After Martinez/Lee?

[Dojji]

You mean an act like sucking the ballsack of every mediocre prospect in the history of ever?

 

Such as the rampant homophilia in nearly every single post, exactly. Thank you, Dipre.

 

I mean I didn't want to say anything. I respect your lifestyle and all. But at some point it's just so obvious you gotta say something.

[Dipre]

Such as the rampant homophilia in nearly every single post' date=' exactly. Thank you, Dipre.[/quote']

 

A) You mean homophobia, because if you know what homophilia means, and are still using it in this instance, you're failing. Hard.

 

B ) I suggest you stop trying to call people out on "Acts", since you've got the most tired one this side of Jacsonianmarch.

[Dojji]

I'm serious, every time you don't like someone's ideas you accuse them of gay sex of some kind. At some point this has to be the voice of experience, right? Or at least a thing that is on your mind far more often than is probably healthy.

 

How about instead of idiotic posturing we actuallty get back to discussing the subject of the thread? You OK with that or do you want to keep dragging the forum down?

[TheKilo]

Honest question for those on the board, looking at LaRoche's 2nd half splits, is the marginal upgrade between he and Martinez worth a Clay Buchholz?

[Dipre]

I'm serious, every time you don't like someone's ideas you accuse them of gay sex of some kind. At some point this has to be the voice of experience, right? Or at least a thing that is on your mind far more often than is probably healthy.

 

How about instead of idiotic posturing we actuallty get back to discussing the subject of the thread? You OK with that or do you want to keep dragging the forum down?

 

No, i accuse YOU of Gay sex because you make it too easy and i can't resist the urge to call you out on your homosexual prospect worshiping practices.

 

And we were discussing the subject of the thread until you got butt hurt God knows why at the mention of V-Mart on this team.

 

P.S: The "you know by experience joke"?

 

Full of fail.

[WhiskeyBreath]

Honest question for those on the board' date=' looking at LaRoche's 2nd half splits, is the marginal upgrade between he and Martinez worth a Clay Buchholz?[/quote']

 

If Lee isn't packaged with VMart then hell no. Haven't the Sox already shot down sending Buchholz their way for Martinez?

[Dipre]

Honest question for those on the board' date=' looking at LaRoche's 2nd half splits, is the marginal upgrade between he and Martinez worth a Clay Buchholz?[/quote']

 

If it's packaged with Lee, yes.

 

By himself, no.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Martinez alone? No way, with Lee though I think it becomes a lot more interesting.

 

EDIT: What everyone else said. And Dojj and Dipre stop derailing the thread, take it to anything goes

[Dojji]

You already know my opinion. I don't really go for first hand second half splits as anything more than a suggestion. But the margin between Martinez and LaRoche as hitters is not very big. If we're bringing in VMart primarily as a first baseman the answer is heck no.

 

I wouldn't go after a guy like Martinez unless I was sure Lowell would not play another inning in Boston.

 

For the record I would happily pay Buchholz and quite a bit more for Cliff Lee and if you package Lee and Martinez it'll be hard to tell who was paid for whom. The net result would be an upgraded roster anyway.

[BSN07]

I say Bard has to stay. Papelbon has been good this year not great. It seems all his saves now end with the bases loaded no one out some how find my way out of this s*** saves(exaggeration). I wouldn't at all be surprised to see the Sox deal Papelbon this off season. Sell high on him. Let Bard take over at closer.

[BSN07]

Of course. I just don't see a whole lot of starts at DH for him.

It be great to let Ortiz sit against LHP with good FB's. He struggles most with them. I could see them finding 5-6 starts a week if Lowell is not around. If Lowell is then it's a whole different story.

Honest question for those on the board' date=' looking at LaRoche's 2nd half splits, is the marginal upgrade between he and Martinez worth a Clay Buchholz?[/quote']

No. I'm glad you brought this up.

If it's packaged with Lee, yes.

 

By himself, no.

 

I could get on board with that. But it would also depend on who else is going.

 

Maybe there is some deal out there that we aren't discussing. I mean a big package deal of top prospects could really intrigue a lot of teams. Even if they weren't really thinking about trading. I'll bring up a couple of my newest pipe dreams(Kilo, stop reading now;)),

 

The first one was trading Bay to SF or some team looking for a bat. Even with his piss poor play to date, he has to be at least worth 1 or 2 good prospects. Because let's face it, the market is thin. Take those guys and flip them in a deal for Johnson and Hanley.

 

2 SF(whoever)+Buchholz/Bowden/Anderson/Masterson(or trade Saito and use that player)+OF prospect.

 

Put Hanley in LF. Leave him there or maybe move him to 3B after Lowell is gone.

 

Or Keep Bay, and insert Lowrie+1.

 

 

 

 

I know Johnson and Hanley are great players. But for a franchise like the Marlins. The quantity and quality in such a deal like that has to make them at least think about it.

 

I mean the one post said there working on something big. So why not dream right?lol:dunno:

 

And you have to admit, when the Red Sox do something "big" it usually is a deal not a lot of people saw coming(Beckett, Schilling, OC, Bay even).

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I think Theo is smarter than to trade Buchholz for Cliff Lee (since V-Mart is a shaky catcher and would become our 5th CIF).

 

Cannot WAIT for the deadline to pass so every single one of these idiotic ideas can be put to rest.

[BSN07]

I think Theo is smarter than to trade Buchholz for Cliff Lee (since V-Mart is a shaky catcher and would become our 5th CIF).

 

Cannot WAIT for the deadline to pass so every single one of these idiotic ideas can be put to rest.

 

At least until November;)

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Just f***ing fix this roster.

 

MUZT WIN THIS YEER MUZT WIN THIS YEEER

 

 

Just so I know, what happens after the deadline if we acquire the godly Martinez and add him to our stable of statistically good hitters, and the offense is still sputtering and we've lost a valuable pitching prospect as a bonus?

[jacksonianmarch]

Guys, I dont want to sound like the yankee fan here (or do I), but VMart and Lee would fill every hole imaginable like a Peter North/Jenna Jameson sex toy party.

 

VMart offers you a part time switch hitting catcher, capable of spelling the suck that has been Jason Varitek and sparing you from the suck that has been George Kottaras. Varitek's hot start has kept his detractors at bay. But the OPS has fallen every month this season from April's .881 to .824, .750, .691. And to make the suck worse, since the ASB, he's 4 for 25 with a .462OPS. Couple that with Kottaras' .631OPS and you have a positional sinkhole. And it isnt like you're losing defense. Varitek is setting a new low for futility in throwing out baserunners, now at a rate of 15%. In his defense, VMart's isnt good either, but his history would suggest that he should come up to his 30% baseline in limited duty. Regardless, you arent losing much by sitting Vtek a bit more.

 

Then there is the possibility of using VMart at 1b. I know there are complicating factors with LaRoche, Youkilis and Lowell. But lets be realistic. Lowell sucks in the second half with regularity AND is going to have trouble staying healthy. He will need to be cut back to part time duty. Youkilis would then split time between 1B and 3B. LaRoche is a fine fill in at that juncture, but he also cannot hit lefties, something VMart can. Also, VMart can DH against lefties as well to get Ortiz out of there. The funny thing is, Ortiz is hitting just about where he hits vs lefties this yr, in the low .700 range in OPS. The problem is, he's doing the same against righties now. Regardless, it would add some oomph to multiple positions and give the sox an option of having a versatile lineup.

 

Then with Cliff Lee, well, its a no brainer. Lee was a Cy Young last yr. He sucked in 2007, but his career before that was really, really solid. Something came apart in 2007, so it isnt like he rose from nothing. This yr, he is pitching like a #2 pitcher. And if you looked at the sox rotation with Wakefield on the DL, they could use any pitcher capable of throwing the ball over the plate and not seeing it get hit back at them at incredible velocities. Outside of Beckett and Lester, the 3-5 slot has been inconsistent, terrible, pick your adjective. Regardless, that is where you are losing games. Both with a meager offense and with awful pitching outside of your top 2 starters. This deal would fix almost every problem you have right now.

 

So then, it becomes, what would you give up. Well, VMart and Lee are 30 and are FAs after 2010. I would assume the sox would be able to work something out with both of them to keep them in Boston through their primes, so it isnt like this would be a 1 yr rental. I would assume the haul would have to be great. Then again, it could also propel the sox past the yankees again into the best team in baseball realm. So you have to take that into account too. It would have to start with your best pitching prospect and your best hitter. Buchholz and Anderson would be the starting point and I would assume they would want Bard as well. I am sure you can bargain one of the three above out for a package of some guys lower. But it would hurt, a lot. Then again, settling your rotation into a 3 headed monster regardless of what Wake and DiceK do, and then getting a switch hitter with power who can catch and play 1b at a younger age is nice too. You gotta give a little to get a little. And if I were the sox, the time is now.

[BSN07]

I don't see Bard going anywhere. He looks to be the possible Closer of the future IMO. Not saying he is absolutely "untouchable". Just less likely.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

VMart offers you a part time switch hitting catcher' date=' capable of spelling the suck that has been Jason Varitek and sparing you from the suck that has been George Kottaras. Varitek's hot start has kept his detractors at bay. But the OPS has fallen every month this season from April's .881 to .824, .750, .691. And to make the suck worse, since the ASB, he's 4 for 25 with a .462OPS. Couple that with Kottaras' .631OPS and you have a positional sinkhole. And it isnt like you're losing defense. Varitek is setting a new low for futility in throwing out baserunners, now at a rate of 15%. In his defense, VMart's isnt good either, but his history would suggest that he should come up to his 30% baseline in limited duty. Regardless, you arent losing much by sitting Vtek a bit more.[/quote']

 

So we upgrade from a bad defensive catcher to a subpar one on 3 days of the week, and then on the other days we get to juggle 3 or 4 CIFs. With the offensive upgrades being anything but spectacular.

 

Why should we give up a prospect haul for that?

 

Then there is the possibility of using VMart at 1b. I know there are complicating factors with LaRoche, Youkilis and Lowell. But lets be realistic. Lowell sucks in the second half with regularity AND is going to have trouble staying healthy. He will need to be cut back to part time duty. Youkilis would then split time between 1B and 3B. LaRoche is a fine fill in at that juncture, but he also cannot hit lefties, something VMart can. Also, VMart can DH against lefties as well to get Ortiz out of there. The funny thing is, Ortiz is hitting just about where he hits vs lefties this yr, in the low .700 range in OPS. The problem is, he's doing the same against righties now. Regardless, it would add some oomph to multiple positions and give the sox an option of having a versatile lineup.

 

You say versatile, I say crowded. Also, V-Mart isn't exactly Albert Pujols. When our offensive players aren't in a common slump, Martinez is 5th or 6th best hitter in the lineup. He's basically a band-aid. Again, not worth a shipment of prospects to Mark Shapiro's doorstep.

 

Then with Cliff Lee, well, its a no brainer. Lee was a Cy Young last yr. He sucked in 2007, but his career before that was really, really solid. Something came apart in 2007, so it isnt like he rose from nothing. This yr, he is pitching like a #2 pitcher. And if you looked at the sox rotation with Wakefield on the DL, they could use any pitcher capable of throwing the ball over the plate and not seeing it get hit back at them at incredible velocities. Outside of Beckett and Lester, the 3-5 slot has been inconsistent, terrible, pick your adjective. Regardless, that is where you are losing games. Both with a meager offense and with awful pitching outside of your top 2 starters. This deal would fix almost every problem you have right now.

 

Brad Penny? His only bad start in recent memory has been the Toronto game. Lee's a nice pitcher, but I'm content with Beckett/Lester/Wakefield/Penny/Buchholz.

 

So then, it becomes, what would you give up. Well, VMart and Lee are 30 and are FAs after 2010. I would assume the sox would be able to work something out with both of them to keep them in Boston through their primes, so it isnt like this would be a 1 yr rental. I would assume the haul would have to be great. Then again, it could also propel the sox past the yankees again into the best team in baseball realm. So you have to take that into account too. It would have to start with your best pitching prospect and your best hitter. Buchholz and Anderson would be the starting point and I would assume they would want Bard as well. I am sure you can bargain one of the three above out for a package of some guys lower. But it would hurt, a lot. Then again, settling your rotation into a 3 headed monster regardless of what Wake and DiceK do, and then getting a switch hitter with power who can catch and play 1b at a younger age is nice too. You gotta give a little to get a little. And if I were the sox, the time is now.

 

lol rly? Why is that?

[BSN07]

The fact that Jacko is pushing this so hard should raise red flags:D

 

JE you raise some valid points. Of course the main stream media is usually way off on these things anyways. Who knows, the Red Sox could be talking a big trade with someone else. And the Cleveland talks are just a distraction:dunno:

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Also, if our offense is in such dire straits, how is one hitter going to fix it? He won't.

[Mr Crunchy]

All we got to do is get to October, are Texas Anaheim and the Drays as prepared as this team is to get there in front of us? I like our chances against all of these teams.

In July the team b/a is what .220?? I suspect that will improve enough for the sox to get to the playoffs.

Its July 28th and inspite of the calamaty this month has been and as well as NY is playing we're only 2.5-3 out and have the confidence of being 8-0 against NY so far this season.

Id like another bat that brings some power and would be very confident going with beckett lester wake buckholz penny and the best bullpen in baseball down the stretch.

[Mr Crunchy]

Lots of sexual tension on board here. I suggest that the warring parties just ask each other out.

Theres nothing like a lil sodomy to cure all these bad vibes y'all are sharing.

who knows, you may find yourself a friend for life.

[Dipre]

All we got to do is get to October, are Texas Anaheim and the Drays as prepared as this team is to get there in front of us? I like our chances against all of these teams.

In July the team b/a is what .220?? I suspect that will improve enough for the sox to get to the playoffs.

Its July 28th and inspite of the calamaty this month has been and as well as NY is playing we're only 2.5-3 out and have the confidence of being 8-0 against NY so far this season.

Id like another bat that brings some power and would be very confident going with beckett lester wake buckholz penny and the best bullpen in baseball down the stretch.

 

Logic.

 

He's using it.

 

Lots of sexual tension on board here. I suggest that the warring parties just ask each other out.

Theres nothing like a lil sodomy to cure all these bad vibes y'all are sharing.

who knows, you may find yourself a friend for life.

 

lolwut?

[BSN07]

Lots of sexual tension on board here. I suggest that the warring parties just ask each other out.

Theres nothing like a lil sodomy to cure all these bad vibes y'all are sharing.

who knows, you may find yourself a friend for life.

 

Classic Crunchy:lol:

[SoxSport]

I think their priority may be pitching, not hitting. Maybe they're trying to throw their competition a curve on this. It makes sense to trade pitching for pitching, if you can upgrade with a top-line pitcher who is a salary dump. Then you're not losing pitching. If you trade pitching for hitting, you are losing pitching, and they have a few ??? in their pitching right now.

 

Having said that, I'm sure they're still concerned about Papi. He isn't the same hitter he was a few years ago, and Tito continues to bat him 4th--which doesn't help their run production. LaRoche looks like their hottest hitter right now, and he's batting 7th. I think Tito needs to adjust his lineup more quickly. He finally got Ellsbury back to leadoff.

[BoSox21]

Having said that, I'm sure they're still concerned about Papi. He isn't the same hitter he was a few years ago, and Tito continues to bat him 4th--which doesn't help their run production. LaRoche looks like their hottest hitter right now, and he's batting 7th. I think Tito needs to adjust his lineup more quickly. He finally got Ellsbury back to leadoff.

 

you don't adjust the lineup based on 3-4 games. if that was the case, Lugo and Green would've bat cleanup at some point this season

[TheKilo]

Ortiz's SLG is still very good for July, it's the OBP that is suffering.

 

I don't foresee a lineup change for two, three weeks, if it happens at all.

[Dipre]

ILaRoche looks like their hottest hitter right now' date=' and he's batting 7th. I think Tito needs to adjust his lineup more quickly. He finally got Ellsbury back to leadoff.[/quote']

 

Textbook example of failure to recognize SSS.

[BSN07]

Ortiz's SLG is still very good for July, it's the OBP that is suffering.

 

I don't foresee a lineup change for two, three weeks, if it happens at all.

 

Agree. There is no point in switching anything until they know who they have for the rest of the season and/or someone heats up enough to warrant the lineup needing to be altered.

[Dipre]

Rays, Red Sox Talking Blockbusters With Tribe

 

By Ben Nicholson-Smith [July 28 at 11:17am CST]

 

TUESDAY, 11:16am: Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports has more dish on the idea of a team acquiring both Lee and V-Mart in a blockbuster trade. The idea has been considered in Cleveland but is considered very unlikely due to the magnitude of prospects required. While the Red Sox could technically pull it off, the Rays wouldn't have the payroll space.

 

MLBTradeRumors.

 

Digest with sack of salt.

 

Rosenthal:

 

Digest with yearly 3rd world country production of salt.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Rosenthal thinks we might do this? Well that's a relief.