All that is Halladay

[jacksonianmarch]

Buchholz has better stuff now than Lester had as a rookie. But Lester always had a better approach to pitching. His approach has always been not to give in. And now that he is fully back from chemo, his stuff has improved significantly and his advanced approach makes him a top pitcher in the league. While Buchholz has the stuff, I dont know if he has the head to be an elite pitcher. I still bet he settles in as a good big league pitcher, but those who think he becomes the next Lester may be a bit disappointed.

[The_Destroyah]

Buchholz has better stuff now than Lester had as a rookie. But Lester always had a better approach to pitching. His approach has always been not to give in. And now that he is fully back from chemo' date=' his stuff has improved significantly and his advanced approach makes him a top pitcher in the league. While Buchholz has the stuff, I dont know if he has the head to be an elite pitcher. I still bet he settles in as a good big league pitcher, but those who think he becomes the next Lester may be a bit disappointed.[/quote']

 

Agreed, he has the potential to be an ace but you have to have the stuff and the mindset, i know he has the stuff but its a little early to know if he has the mindset and so far he has not showed the willingness to attack batters and own the inside of the plate as a Major League starter, only time will tell.

[Dipre]

Agreed' date=' he has the potential to be an ace but you have to have the stuff and the mindset, i know he has the stuff but its a little early to know if he has the mindset and so far he has not showed the willingness to attack batters and own the inside of the plate as a Major League starter, only time will tell.[/quote']

 

You can't throw a fastball inside if you have minimal command of it.

[The_Destroyah]

You can't throw a fastball inside if you have minimal command of it.

 

and that is a problem but one that should work itself out being that most young pitchers are not known for control. maybe he just needs the Major League "Wild Thing" coke bottle glasses to fix that...

[Dipre]

and that is a problem but one that should work itself out being that most young pitchers are not known for control. maybe he just needs the Major League "Wild Thing" coke bottle glasses to fix that...

 

What he needs is to repeat his f***ing delivery.

 

The man is a mess out there as soon as he loses his rythm.

[jacksonianmarch]

and that is something you want pitching in a meaningful game in August and September down the stretch? A guy who had trouble repeating his delivery?

[TheKilo]

and that is something you want pitching in a meaningful game in August and September down the stretch? A guy who had trouble repeating his delivery?

 

http://waiversharks.com/ramble-and-gamble/files/2008/04/clay-buchholz.jpg

[Dipre]

and that is something you want pitching in a meaningful game in August and September down the stretch? A guy who had trouble repeating his delivery?

 

Problem is, if he finds consistency, you'll be s***ing your pants every time the Yanks have to face him.

[Rdsxmbnt]

What he needs is to repeat his f***ing delivery.

 

The man is a mess out there as soon as he loses his rythm.

 

You've seen 9.2 innings of him this year, stop acting like you have him all figured out.

[Dojji]

Did they say this about Chris Carpenter when he went 10-12 with an ERA over 6 in 2000?

 

How about when Roy Halladay went 4-7 with an ERA over 10 in 2000?

 

Chris Carpenter is a St. Louis reclamation project gone brilliantly and he benefits very much from now being in the National League. He is most definitely NOT the pitcher he was as a Blue Jay. I imagine that considering that the Jays moved on from him not long after that performance, that they were concerned. You don't let a guy with that level of talent go unless there's something.

 

Roy Halladay was rewarded for that performance by being sent to A ball where he completely relearned how to pitch. I imagine that there were some legitimate makeup issues that got worked out there as well.

 

Interesting that both of your examples of disastrous young pitching performance were Blue Jays at the time, yes?

 

 

 

So you acknowledge Lester did the same things, got lucky a bit more often, and can't offer an explanation for it.

 

Sound, logical argument indeed.

 

Where I draw the line is referring to it as luck. Lester made his pitch. Buchholz does not. As to why one did a thing and the other doesn't (yet) do it, there's numerous potential causes and I don't think I'd be well advised to speculate in that area. It's more than just "luck" though.

 

You would have preferred him to keep it to himself?

 

No, once he actually had that emotional reaction I'd rather know about it, but I'd definitely rather not have a pitcher who let past performances affect him emotionally to the point that they affect the next one. That isn't a recipe for success.

[Dipre]

You've seen 9.2 innings of him this year' date=' stop acting like you have him all figured out.[/quote']

 

I follow a lot of prospects through MiLB games.

 

How the f*** can you tell what i know?

 

If your post is meant to be an inflammatory post with no discussion value, please don't be a f***ing douche, and don't press the f***ing submit button.

[BoSox21]

http://waiversharks.com/ramble-and-gamble/files/2008/04/clay-buchholz.jpg

 

I'd love to see people start to make pro-Buchholz arguments without having to resort to the fact that he threw a no-hitter two years ago....it's all but irrelevant

[Looch Ness Monster]

I'd love to see people start to make pro-Buchholz arguments without having to resort to the fact that he threw a no-hitter two years ago....it's all but irrelevant

 

I think the fact that we saw a guy like Daniel Bard develop his control so tremendously is a reason to be hopeful, believe in the system. Bard was a BB machine a few seasons ago, look at him now. I also believe that after they essentially taught him a lesson and put him in the minors after he s*** the bed, it made him more deterimed and now he has less job security. They just handed him the job in 2008, young kids shouldn't ever be handed something. When your kid gets his license, you don't buy him the Mercedes Benz, you buy him the cheap car and make him earn a better car by showing he's responsible enough to handle it. :dunno: Now that they've made him work for it, I think he learned his lesson and is going to be more focused which will lead to better control, which will lead to results and strikeouts which will lead to confidence which will eventually lead him to being a top of the rotation pitcher.

[Dojji]

Bard also has an overwhelming main offering. Buchholz' main offering is his primary weakness.

[BoSox21]

isn't Buchholz's main offering his changeup?

[Dojji]

That's kind of my point. He needs his primary offering to be that low 90's fastball of his. You can't live forever on offspeed stuff, not even a guy like Buchholz.

[TheKilo]

I'd love to see people start to make pro-Buchholz arguments without having to resort to the fact that he threw a no-hitter two years ago....it's all but irrelevant

 

Missed the point.

 

The only other time we've seen Buchholz make a crucial start in August/September was that game.

[TheKilo]

That's kind of my point. He needs his primary offering to be that low 90's fastball of his. You can't live forever on offspeed stuff' date=' not even a guy like Buchholz.[/quote']

 

http://gamefish.mlblogs.com/Jamie_Moyer.jpg

[BoSox21]

with the changeup and breaking ball he has, all he needs is the ability to locate his fastball to keep hitters honest. he doesnt need an overpowering fastball

[Dipre]

That's kind of my point. He needs his primary offering to be that low 90's fastball of his. You can't live forever on offspeed stuff' date=' not even a guy like Buchholz.[/quote']

 

No he doesn't.

 

You can live by having your 4-seamer as your third best pitch as long as you can locate it.

 

And just so you know, when Bucholz can locate his FB, it's a plus pitch, the curveball is plus-plus, and the changeup is elite.

 

I can make you a list of pitchers who do not use their fastball as their primary offering. You've got the concept all wrong.

[yankeessuck013]

Yahoo's Gordon Edes hears that the Red Sox could potentially offer the Jays Clay Buchholz and Daniel Bard plus minor leaguers such as Michael Bowden, Junichi Tazawa and Casey Kelly. However, Edes' source says the Red Sox aren't going to "give up the farm" in any trade.

 

MLBTR

[BSN07]

MLBTR

 

Thats why I don't listen to Edes. That is a horrendous trade...

[BoSox21]

if anything, that's just a reminder at how good our farm pitching is

[Dojji]

http://gamefish.mlblogs.com/Jamie_Moyer.jpg

 

Exceptions prove the rule. Moyer is an exception. Every soft tosser wants to be him, but only Moyer is Moyer.

[Dojji]

And just so you know, when Bucholz can locate his FB, it's a plus pitch, the curveball is plus-plus, and the changeup is elite.

 

At the moment, that excludes too many outings. Ahh well, at least it's the sort of thing that you can expect a guy to develop with consistency and practice.

[Rdsxmbnt]

lol the Red Sox aren't going to "give up the farm" yet Edes is suggesting probably 4 of Buchholz, Bard, Kelly, Bowden, and Tazawa?

 

That's three extremely talented MLB ready SP, a AAA guy who's just about there and a high-upside 19 year old who's is in High-A. The Boston media doesn't know s*** about this farm system...

[example1]

That's kind of my point. He needs his primary offering to be that low 90's fastball of his. You can't live forever on offspeed stuff' date=' not even a guy like Buchholz.[/quote']

 

His fastball has averaged 93.2 this year and has gotten harder the past two years. For comparison Lester is 93.6, so not much difference between the "hard throwing" Lester and Buchholz with his "low-90's FB".

 

Among qualified MLB starters, that would put him comparably above Garza, Lincecum and Halladay, and just behind Oswalt. Those guys seem to get by on "low 90's fastball".

 

I think you're underestimating what this kid brings.

[Dojji]

Have you heard me when I've repeateldy said that velocity is not Buchholz' problem? He's got a good fastball -- like Wily Mo Pena had a good power swing. OK, maybe not THAT bad, but "talented but inconsistent" sums up my feelings on Buchholz. When he's on you're in awe and you see what the future will be when he puts it together, but that's not what you're getting on a regular basis from the guy. At least, not yet.

[Dipre]

Have you heard me when I've repeateldy said that velocity is not Buchholz' problem? He's got a good fastball -- like Wily Mo Pena had a good power swing. OK' date=' maybe not THAT bad, but "talented but inconsistent" sums up my feelings on Buchholz. When he's on you're in awe and you see what the future will be when he puts it together, but that's not what you're getting on a regular basis from the guy. At least, not yet.[/quote']

 

Worst.Comparison.Ever.

 

You're still trying to undermine the power of Bucholz' fastball.

 

It's simple, he needs to repeat his delivery, i'm again flabbergasted at how you can pronounce the awesomeness of some of the Suckiest.Prospects.Ever, and undermine Bucholz' potential based on the easiest flaw to pitch, which is fastball control, and especially in Clay's case in which it's as simple as delivery consistency.

[BSN07]

Worst.Comparison.Ever.

 

You're still trying to undermine the power of Bucholz' fastball.

 

It's simple, he needs to repeat his delivery, i'm again flabbergasted at how you can pronounce the awesomeness of some of the Suckiest.Prospects.Ever, and undermine Bucholz' potential based on the easiest flaw to pitch, which is fastball control, and especially in Clay's case in which it's as simple as delivery consistency.

 

Dojji has made it a his personal plight to hype the seemingly unhypable:D