How good is Terry Francona??

[Dojji]

Bizarre series of events with both of the recent Tek miscues. It feels like a freakish coincidence.

 

It feels like something you should maybe adjust to. Tek usually doesn't do this. It's either a freak coincidence or he's hiding an injury. And I don't believe in trusting that it's a coincidence.

[example1]

It feels like he's showing his age really.

 

It feels like something you should maybe adjust to. Tek usually doesn't do this. It's either a freak coincidence or he's hiding an injury. And I don't believe in trusting that it's a coincidence.

 

My dad just commented that "it's sad, like watching a dying racehorse"

[The_Destroyah]

Sad but true...

[Dojji]

it's like that scene in major league 2 where Taylor's trying one last comeback and he just doesn't have it.

 

It's time to go, Tek. The question is, do you realize that yet.

[Dipre]

Here's an example of my point.

 

What the f*** is Beckett doing out there?

[example1]

Here's an example of my point.

 

What the f*** is Beckett doing out there?

 

I'm not sure... I think there's 2 ways to measure the move:

 

1) Does it help the team win

2) Does it have a longterm positive or negative outcome on Beckett

 

He's not far over 100 pitches, but I was shocked to see him out there too.

 

Recently I've seen someone (was it Duncan from St. Louis or Maddux from Texas??) saying that what they measure are actually "stress" pitches, i.e., pitches made with runners in scoring position with less than two outs. Those are the pitches that pitchers REALLY need to focus on and execute, and which take the greatest toll on them. I'd be curious to see if Beckett has had many of those tonight...

 

Inning over, no immediate negative impact, no bullpen usage.

[Dipre]

I'm not sure... I think there's 2 ways to measure the move:

 

1) Does it help the team win

2) Does it have a longterm positive or negative outcome on Beckett

 

He's not far over 100 pitches, but I was shocked to see him out there too.

 

Recently I've seen someone (was it Duncan from St. Louis or Maddux from Texas??) saying that what they measure are actually "stress" pitches, i.e., pitches made with runners in scoring position with less than two outs. Those are the pitches that pitchers REALLY need to focus on and execute, and which take the greatest toll on them. I'd be curious to see if Beckett has had many of those tonight...

 

Inning over, no immediate negative impact, no bullpen usage.

 

You don't think at this point, with the playoffs all but a lock, not overexerting our SPs is a good idea?

[example1]

You don't think at this point' date=' with the playoffs all but a lock, not overexerting our SPs is a good idea?[/quote']

 

I question it, I really do. Overall he threw 114 pitches, not a ton and certainly not outside his capabilities.

 

I don't think decisions like this ultimately have a baring on whether or not I see Francona as an excellent manager. I'm sure every manager has done the same thing in similar situations and there's probably a good chance that the ones who don't get shat on by their star pitcher for not giving them a chance at the W.

 

I totally hear you though. I'm pretty sure we could debate a lot of choices Francona makes.

[Dipre]

I question it, I really do. Overall he threw 114 pitches, not a ton and certainly not outside his capabilities.

 

I don't think decisions like this ultimately have a baring on whether or not I see Francona as an excellent manager. I'm sure every manager has done the same thing in similar situations and there's probably a good chance that the ones who don't get shat on by their star pitcher for not giving them a chance at the W.

 

I totally hear you though. I'm pretty sure we could debate a lot of choices Francona makes.

 

My problem is him basically getting talked into "the other inning" i'm not there, so i wouldn't know, but it seems fairly obvious.

[TheKilo]

I don't have many qualms about Tito leaving Beckett out there for the 8th, but his management in the 9th was freaking terrible.

[Dipre]

TIto's 9th inning tonight made me loolk good.

[Dojji]

The one thing I don't get:

 

If you're going to hit for Drew, and Youkilis is available to hit, then why not hit youkilis for Drew?

[BoSox21]

I don't really see how Francona can come up for a logical explanation for that

[Dipre]

I don't really see how Francona can come up for a logical explanation for that

 

A brainfart?

 

Everyone has them.

 

He can't pull out the "Youk's back is hurtin'" card, because he was already on deck taking his cuts.

[The_Destroyah]

Yeah no way around that call tonight, it wasnt a good one, but it happens.

[example1]

The one thing I don't get:

 

If you're going to hit for Drew, and Youkilis is available to hit, then why not hit youkilis for Drew?

 

He was never going to hit Youkilis, but brought him out so Baldelli would see better pitches to hit? Wanted to have Youk hitting with RISP rather than witha man on 1B? :dunno:

 

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but I don't think it was an oversight. I doubt Tito was like "oh s***, I have Youkilis on deck and Baldelli hitting. That was totally not what I meant to do!"

[redsoxrules]

I didn't get that ... post it again ?

[example1]

I didn't get that ... post it again ?

 

Yeah, bad internet connection. Problem fixed. Thanks.

[yankees228]

He was never going to hit Youkilis, but brought him out so Baldelli would see better pitches to hit? Wanted to have Youk hitting with RISP rather than witha man on 1B? :dunno:

 

Doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but I don't think it was an oversight. I doubt Tito was like "oh s***, I have Youkilis on deck and Baldelli hitting. That was totally not what I meant to do!"

 

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove. I'm sure every manager has a rationale for every move he makes. It doesn't make it the right move.

[Gom]

I agree his BP management could be better but he's improved since '04 and he's the best playoff manager in the game' date=' IMO (at least of those who will be playing in October).[/quote']

 

Not even close. LaRussa trumps all of them.

[ORS]

LaRussa? Not really, his underperfomance as manager of the A's in the WS has to count for something. He had the clear best team in baseball for 3 consecutive WS an only managed 1 win. Given the "crapshoot" nature of baseball, I'll allow him one loss there. That said, he should have at least made a series of each, and he managed to take that juggernaut and get swept one year and only win one game in another. That deserves a macro-"Fail" response.

[Dipre]

LaRussa? Not really' date=' his underperfomance as manager of the A's in the WS has to count for something. He had the clear best team in baseball for 3 consecutive WS an only managed 1 win. Given the "crapshoot" nature of baseball, I'll allow him one loss there. That said, he should have at least made a series of each, and he managed to take that juggernaut and get swept one year and only win one game in another. That deserves a macro-"Fail" response.[/quote']

 

But i bet he would've pinch hit Youk instead of Baldelli last night.

[RWTP24]

But i bet he would've pinch hit Youk instead of Baldelli last night.

 

He was never going to hit Youk. The only reason Youk was on deck is so they would go after Rocco and give him better pitches to hit.

[Dipre]

He was never going to hit Youk. The only reason Youk was on deck is so they would go after Rocco and give him better pitches to hit.

 

Lol where'd ya pull that from?

 

So, by your logic, he would have let Alex Gonzales hit with the game on the line if it got to him?

 

Lol ok.

 

Hell, he might've let 'Tek hit, who hits reasonably well against lefties, defeating the basis of your argument.

[jsc1973]

Tito makes a difference in exactly the areas he most needs to in order to shepherd a talented roster to the World Series. He is a master of handling the media, deflecting pressure from individual players, smoothing conflicts between players, and holding the clubhouse together. He is also, at the very worst, not so bad a strategist that it negates his other advantages.

 

In short he's got just about exactly the same managerial skillset as Joe Torre.

 

Bingo. He has exactly the right skill set to be a successful manager of the Boston Red Sox. The hard part of managing the Red Sox is not what goes on between the white lines. Just don't be a moron like Grady Little or John McNamara.

 

Tony LaRussa might be a better manager overall, but we don't have Tony LaRussa and he is not available to us. He will probably die in a St. Louis Cardinals uniform.

[example1]

Lol where'd ya pull that from?

 

So, by your logic, he would have let Alex Gonzales hit with the game on the line if it got to him?

 

Lol ok.

 

Hell, he might've let 'Tek hit, who hits reasonably well against lefties, defeating the basis of your argument.

 

 

It's funny. I half-heartedly suggested this reason the other night, but I wasn't very serious about it.

 

I haven't heard Tito address it. Until then we just don't know.

[Dipre]

 

It's funny. I half-heartedly suggested this reason the other night, but I wasn't very serious about it.

 

I haven't heard Tito address it. Until then we just don't know.

 

Ya but seriously?

 

And you should sue the guy.Copyright laws protect you, man.

[RWTP24]

Lol where'd ya pull that from?

 

So, by your logic, he would have let Alex Gonzales hit with the game on the line if it got to him?

 

Lol ok.

 

Hell, he might've let 'Tek hit, who hits reasonably well against lefties, defeating the basis of your argument.

 

Where did I get that from... Well let me think….. I got that from logic, thank you. Tito would have never let Youk hit for two HUGE reasons. First, Youk was hurt. Second, if Youk got hurt even worse, that would just about end the season. So again, it is called COMMON SENSE.

 

And yes, by my logic, AGon would have hit. Maybe you have a really short memory, but do you remember that Angels game three nights ago????? Oh yeah, I believe that was AGon that hit in the winning run. So yes, AGon would have hit. He proved two nights earlier he could do it.

[RWTP24]

 

It's funny. I half-heartedly suggested this reason the other night, but I wasn't very serious about it.

 

I haven't heard Tito address it. Until then we just don't know.

 

See Dipre, Example1 said the same damn thing somewhere on here apparently. It does not take much to realize what Tito was doing. That might be one of the smart things Tito as done lately.

[Dipre]

Where did I get that from... Well let me think….. I got that from logic, thank you. Tito would have never let Youk hit for two HUGE reasons. First, Youk was hurt. Second, if Youk got hurt even worse, that would just about end the season. So again, it is called COMMON SENSE.

 

And yes, by my logic, AGon would have hit. Maybe you have a really short memory, but do you remember that Angels game three nights ago????? Oh yeah, I believe that was AGon that hit in the winning run. So yes, AGon would have hit. He proved two nights earlier he could do it.

 

Lol Youk played yesterday, if he was THAT hurt, they wouldn't even have allowed him to swing a bat in the on-deck circle.