How good is Terry Francona??

[RWTP24]

It wouldn't be blind luck that would give Tito 3 WS titles and thus tie him for 4th all time. Hell if they win this year I'd say it is quite a display of managing.

 

Crapshoot or not he's the first manager to win his first 8 games in the World Series and he's 9-1 in elimination games. There have been plenty of good managers who do not have the same playoff success.

 

I agree..

[redsoxrules]

It wouldn't be blind luck that would give Tito 3 WS titles and thus tie him for 4th all time. Hell if they win this year I'd say it is quite a display of managing.

 

Crapshoot or not he's the first manager to win his first 8 games in the World Series and he's 9-1 in elimination games. There have been plenty of good managers who do not have the same playoff success.

 

so the excellent team that theo has built has nothing to do with this?

 

I'd like to see tito managed the Royals

[rhet]

Tito is a very good manager.

He gets criticized most for his substitutions. Give him a better bench and people would think he was a genius.

[RWTP24]

so the excellent team that theo has built has nothing to do with this?

 

I'd like to see tito managed the Royals

 

My lord!

 

If he wins again, we all could say he is good.

 

I don't know if you have noticed, but this team is not as good compared to the other two teams (04 and 07) that won the WS.

 

Also, the Royals SUCK! Since a lot of you think the Tony La Russa is really good. Do you think he could turn around the Royals?? f*** NO!!!! No one could, they suck! You need some kind of talent to have a good team and they don't have it.

[RWTP24]

Tito is a very good manager.

He gets criticized most for his substitutions. Give him a better bench and people would think he was a genius.

 

Wow, that is sooooo damn true... :clap:

[Dojji]

I don't know if you have noticed' date=' but this team is not as good compared to the other two teams (04 and 07) that won the WS. [/quote']

 

Disagree. This team pitches better than the team that won the 2004 World Series and the bullpen is worlds apart from even 2007 (which was a pretty good bullpen) much less the Foulke-And-Fail 2004 pen.

 

Believe it or not, Beckett-Lester actually > Schilling-Pedro in their 2004 versions. About all they had in 2004 was a somewhat better lineup.

[RWTP24]

Disagree. This team pitches better than the team that won the 2004 World Series and the bullpen is worlds apart from even 2007 (which was a pretty good bullpen) much less the Foulke-And-Fail 2004 pen.

 

Believe it or not, Beckett-Lester actually > Schilling-Pedro in their 2004 versions. About all they had in 2004 was a somewhat better lineup.

 

I might agree with the pitching, just maybe, but a "somewhat better lineup?" I don't think I can agree with that..

 

Manny and Ortiz might end up in the top 3 all time.

[Dojji]

True, but don't ignore what everyone else has put together. When it's Victor Martinez behind the dish and Mike Lowell at third this lineup is easily as deep or deeper than the 2004 version. Where it loses is in explosiveness in the middle.

 

First base, third base, second base, arguably right field, are all substantially better than the 2004 version.

[RWTP24]

True, but don't ignore what everyone else has put together. When it's Victor Martinez behind the dish and Mike Lowell at third this lineup is easily as deep or deeper than the 2004 version. Where it loses is in explosiveness in the middle.

 

First base, third base, second base, arguably right field, are all substantially better than the 2004 version.

 

 

Well, you might be right. I guess we are going to find out here shortly.

[Dipre]

Tito is not a good strategist.

 

Whoever argues otherwise is kidding themselves.

[redsoxrules]

Game 2 ALCS last year ...enough said

there's no way in hell beckett should have came out for the 5th he was getting pounded all game long . that was a major f***up by Tito

 

we could be looking at 3WS if he had managed that game diferently

 

and not to mention starting Ellsbury over Drew

[Dipre]

Game 2 ALCS last year ...enough said

there's no way in hell beckett should have came out for the 5th he was getting pounded all game long . that was a major f***up by Tito

 

we could be looking at 3WS if he had managed that game diferently

 

Game 7 2004 ALCS.

 

The Pedro fiasco.

[RWTP24]

You guys are right. Tito f***ing sucks.

[Dojji]

What's the difference betwee a move that doesn't work and a bad move?

[Dipre]

What's the difference betwee a move that doesn't work and a bad move?

 

If you're gonna make a hindsight argument.

 

I'll argue you with a common sense argument.

 

Would you have brought Beckett back for the 7th inning the game the Yankees bombarded him?

[RWTP24]

If you're gonna make a hindsight argument.

 

I'll argue you with a common sense argument.

 

Would you have brought Beckett back for the 7th inning the game the Yankees bombarded him?

 

I think any manager is going to make some mistakes while coaching over a long period of time. With that said, sometimes your players have to pick you up IMO. We can always put the blame on the managers, but sometimes it needs to go on the players.

[Dipre]

I think any manager is going to make some mistakes while coaching over a long period of time. With that said' date=' sometimes your players have to pick you up IMO. We can always put the blame on the managers, but sometimes it needs to go on the players.[/quote']

 

Not on the case of leaving a starting pitcher too much, or bringing in a gassed reliever, or letting a reliever get smacked around with non-favorable matchups.

 

Everyone here whines all the time about Tito's bullpen management.

 

Yet now defends him like he's God's gift to baseball.

 

It makes me Lol.

[RWTP24]

Not on the case of leaving a starting pitcher too much, or bringing in a gassed reliever, or letting a reliever get smacked around with non-favorable matchups.

 

Everyone here whines all the time about Tito's bullpen management.

 

Yet now defends him like he's God's gift to baseball.

 

It makes me Lol.

 

No, no, no, we are not saying he is the GOD'S GIFT TO BASEBALL. I hear what you are saying, trust me I do. Sometimes I really, really want to throw something at him. Most of the time he does things that drive me crazy, but if he keeps WINNING he is obviously is doing something right, RIGHT?

[Dipre]

No' date=' no, no, we are not saying he is the GOD'S GIFT TO BASEBALL. I hear what you are saying, trust me I do. Sometimes I really, really want to throw something at him. Most of the time he does things that drive me crazy, but if he keeps WINNING he is obviously is doing something right, RIGHT?[/quote']

 

I was overstating things.

 

And i keep saying, he keeps winning because it's a powerhouse team.

 

Let's keep things in perspective.

 

I won't deny he's really good at calming egos and handling the media.

 

I'm just saying he is not in the upper echelon of managers.

[RWTP24]

I was overstating things.

 

And i keep saying, he keeps winning because it's a powerhouse team.

 

Let's keep things in perspective.

 

I won't deny he's really good at calming egos and handling the media.

 

I'm just saying he is not in the upper echelon of managers.

 

Ok, I see what you are saying now.. Sorry, I think I miss read what you were saying, maybe.

[Dipre]

Ok' date=' I see what you are saying now.. Sorry, I think I miss read what you were saying, maybe.[/quote']

 

The whole issue was example1 said Terry Francona was as good a manager lie Tony LaRussa.

 

What do you think?

[TheKilo]

Tony LaRussa is so f***ing overrated

[Dojji]

Every team LaRussa has been credited with turning into pure awesome has either been directly linked to steroids, or directly linked to HGH.

[Dipre]

Tony LaRussa is so f***ing overrated

 

Yet still better than Tito, wouldn't you agree?

[Dipre]

Every team LaRussa has been credited with turning into pure awesome has either been directly linked to steroids' date=' or directly linked to HGH.[/quote']

 

LOL.

 

So?

[RWTP24]

The whole issue was example1 said Terry Francona was as good a manager lie Tony LaRussa.

 

What do you think?

 

No I do not think Francona is as good as Tony LaRussa, but if Francona keeps doing what is doing I'm sure he will get up on that list.. Also, if he finds a way to win a 3rd WS maybe we will be able to talk about it.

[TheKilo]

Yet still better than Tito' date=' wouldn't you agree?[/quote']

 

Yes but let's put a kabbash on the whole "he's a baseball genius" thing

[Dipre]

Yes but let's put a kabbash on the whole "he's a baseball genius" thing

 

The argument was never him being a baseball genius.

 

The argument is that Francona is not as good as him, because Francona sucks ass as a strategist.

[example1]

You should actually read the argument. The question was about IF the Sox were to win the World Series again this year. I said that if Francona got his 3rd WS this year then he would be one of the best managers of the past few decades, and that he would be "up there" with LaRussa. I didn't say "as good" and I certainly didn't say "better". Your misinterpretation has led this board on a wild goose chase.

 

That goose chase also led you to many defenses of LaRussa and many knocks of Francona. I agree with Kilo, LaRussa is wildly overrated. He managed some GREAT teams, some absolute powerhouses, especially in Oakland where he had Canseco and Mac, Dave Stewert, Eck, Lansford, and a few other pitchers. They were definitely the best team in the AL for those three years.

 

I assume you've all read "Three Nights in August" by Buzz Bissinger, the book about LaRussa. He's an interesting guy, and definitely someone that those of us who love baseball would find interesting.

[Dipre]

He would be up there with the best managers in recent decades. Don't know how he compares with Connie Mack or John McGraw' date=' or whether that kind of thing matters. He would certainly be seen as better than Lou Pinella, [b']and probably right there with LaRussa.[/b]

 

Francona has a very calming influence on a stressful locker room. Remember, he was hand picked by Theo and Co., and that was obviously a very good and durable choice.

 

I read all right.

 

And that's exactly what started the argument.

 

I've said it before.

 

The post-season is a crap-shoot, and Francona is a failure as a strategist.