Sox/Bay talking extension

[Dutchy]

It's all about money.

 

Bronson Arroyo, Mike Lowell, Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis, Jon Lester...

[a700hitter]

That doesn't make any sense. Does that mean Teixeira doesn't actually like the Yankees because he didn't sign with them as soon as possible?

Maybe he went to NY because they made the biggest offer.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I think Arroyo's learned his lesson.

[Dutchy]

I think Arroyo's learned his lesson.

 

You think he's gonna call up Jason Bay and warn him?

[a700hitter]

Bronson Arroyo' date=' Mike Lowell, Dustin Pedroia, Kevin Youkilis, Jon Lester...[/quote']Pedroia, Youkilis and lester are not FA eligible. If they waited for FA, their stats may not have be quite so good. There was no home town discount. They took the guaranteed money. Some guys are risk averse.

[Dutchy]

Pedroia' date=' Youkilis and lester are not FA eligible. If they waited for FA, their stats may not have be quite so good. There was no home town discount. They took the guaranteed money. Some guys are risk averse.[/quote']

 

I realize they were getting guaranteed money, but chances are they would have made more money had they reached free agency. And Lowell took a discount as a free agent and I believe Lowe wanted to take one to pitch for us but we weren't interested.

[a700hitter]

I realize they were getting guaranteed money' date=' but chances are they would have made more money had they reached free agency. [/quote']Not if they get injured. Guaranteed up front $ is worth more than bigger deferred $'s and it also removes the uncertainty.

[Dutchy]

Not if they get injured. Guaranteed up front $ is worth more than bigger deferred $'s and it also removes the uncertainty.

 

Like I said, I understand they're taking the guaranteed money. But mostly likely, they could have made more when they hit free agency.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yep. If Youkilis hurt a shoulder and had a couple mediocre yrs, he wouldnt be worth 10 mil a yr. If Bay injures a shoulder right now and misses the rest of the yr, he's still gonna make a shitton of money this offseason

[jacksonianmarch]

Like I said' date=' I understand they're taking the guaranteed money. But [i']mostly likely[/i], they could have made more when they hit free agency.

 

there are a lot of examples of guys who broke down or reverted to mediocrity during their team control yrs. Youkilis, Pedroia and Lester were coming off career seasons, and there were real questions as to whether they could replicate their 08 performances

[a700hitter]

Like I said' date=' I understand they're taking the guaranteed money. But [i']mostly likely[/i], they could have made more when they hit free agency.

There was no home town discount involved. Other financial considerations were at work. There's only a discount when a player has a bigger offer from another team at the same time. That was not the case with Youkilis, Lester or Pedroia. In fact the home team is taking a financial risk, because they might have been able to go year by year before they were FA eligible and negate the injury and other risks.

[BoSox21]

Agree with jacko (holy s***)' date=' but I can't help but worry that his 2009 performance is the result of that contract year business.[/quote']

 

fine, if we sign him long-term and he "dips" to his 2008 level, ill take that any day

 

and don't confuse the term "hometown discount" with guys who wanna sign long-term to ensure financial security if they get injured or their production falls off. Case in point, Josh Beckett. he signed his extension not much long after arriving in Boston cause he was a power pitcher with an injury history, he certainly didn't take a hometown discount.

[Dutchy]

There was no home town discount involved. Other financial considerations were at work. There's only a discount when a player has a bigger offer from another team at the same time. That was not the case with Youkilis' date=' Lester or Pedroia. In fact the home team is taking a financial risk, because they might have been able to go year by year before they were FA eligible and negate the injury and other risks.[/quote']

 

K, then Lowell took a home town discount. Phillies offered him more money and he took the Red Sox contract.

[jacksonianmarch]

Lowell did. And he almost got bit on it. Arroyo did, he did get bit on it. I would assume that Bay is aware of that.

[a700hitter]

K' date=' then Lowell took a home town discount. Phillies offered him more money and he took the Red Sox contract.[/quote']... and the Sox were ready to throw him under the bus one year later if they signed Tex. With his hip condition, I am sure that Lowell might be regretting his decision. Also, do we know the specifics of the Philly offer.

[a700hitter]

Lowell did. And he almost got bit on it. Arroyo did' date=' he did get bit on it. I would assume that Bay is aware of that.[/quote']as is his agent.

[Dutchy]

... and the Sox were ready to throw him under the bus one year later if they signed Tex. With his hip condition' date=' I am sure that Lowell might be regretting his decision. Also, do we know the specifics of the Philly offer.[/quote']

 

Lowell left $12.5 million on the table to sign with the Red Sox.

 

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9906EFDA1F30F932A15752C1A9619C8B63

[Dutchy]

Lowell did. And he almost got bit on it. Arroyo did' date=' he did get bit on it. I would assume that Bay is aware of that.[/quote']

 

Bay would be our three, four or five hitter though. Not really the same as a Bronson Arroyo or a 33-year-old Mike Lowell.

[Dojji]

33 isn't that old. His injury is the issue, not his age.

[Dutchy]

33 isn't that old. His injury is the issue' date=' not his age.[/quote']

 

The Red Sox knew when they signed him at age 33, he probably wasn't going to be in perfect health and that his bat would decline.

[jacksonianmarch]

I think you are wearing the rosy glasses if you think Bay is leaving money on the table.

[Dutchy]

I think you are wearing the rosy glasses if you think Bay is leaving money on the table.

 

I never said he'd leave money on the table. I said he'd sign for less than his value probably is on the open market.

[jacksonianmarch]

that is leaving money on the table

[Dutchy]

that is leaving money on the table

 

Ummmm, the money has to be on the table in order for him to leave it on the table. I'm not speaking colloquially. That's why the Red Sox are talking to him now.

[example1]

as is his agent.

 

Bay and his agent should see how much the Sox actually want him to play for them by how much they are willing to pay. If the Sox sign him for 18m a year then he's not a trading piece and he's not going to be someone they plan on moving. For that amount of money it is very difficult to move a player.

 

As much as Jacksonian would love for Bay's agent to see the Sox FO as nothing more than deceitful, he should know that if Bay does what he is supposed to do on the field then he would be irreplaceable to the Red Sox. If the Sox are willing to pay him 18m then his ability to perform at 18m a year (probably 8-11 WARP) is all the guarantee he would need that the Sox wouldn't give him up.

 

If the Yankees aren't interested in Bay then the Sox will resign him. If they "set" the market then the Sox may not and the Yankees will overpay for another player.

[Dutchy]

Bay and his agent should see how much the Sox actually want him to play for them by how much they are willing to pay. If the Sox sign him for 18m a year then he's not a trading piece and he's not going to be someone they plan on moving. For that amount of money you it is very difficult to move a player.

 

As much as Jacksonian would love for Bay's agent to see the Sox FO as nothing more than deceitful, he should know that if Bay does what he is supposed to do on the field then he would be irreplaceable to the Red Sox. If the Sox are willing to pay him 18m then his ability to perform at 18m a year (probably 8-11 WARP) is all the guarantee he would need that the Sox wouldn't give him up.

 

If the Yankees aren't interested in Bay then the Sox will resign him. If they "set" the market then the Sox may not and the Yankees will overpay for another player.

 

Yeah, Jason Bay's situation isn't the same as an aging declining Mike Lowell or Bronson Arroyo. He'd be a centerpiece of our team.

[Spudboy]

No' date=' not everything is about money. That being said, the fact that he hasnt signed already should tell you how much he loves Boston.[/quote']

 

Yup. I don't understand where Boston fans get the idea that Bay is so in love with Boston.

He'll go for the brass ring this time. He has no reason not too. This is HIS BIG contract coming up. And as 700 says, it is about the money.

[Dutchy]

Yup. I don't understand where Boston fans get the idea that Bay is so in love with Boston.

He'll go for the brass ring this time. He has no reason not too. This is HIS BIG contract coming up. And as 700 says, it is about the money.

 

He could be lying, but all he ever talks about is how great the atmosphere is in Boston and how he feeds off the crowd. He doesn't sound like a guy that ever wants to go back to a team that won't be in constant contention. His agent tried to initiate talks with the Red Sox prior to the season.

 

"It’s a situation where he’s loving Boston. It’s a great club and a great organization,” said Nez Balelo of Creative Artists Agency. “He’s a quality player, and I’m sure (the Red Sox) recognize that. Whatever they want to do, I’m sure that we’re all ears.”

 

http://blogs.weei.com/alexspeier/2008/11/05/jason-bay-interested-in-remaining-a-red-sox/

[Spudboy]

 

If the Yankees aren't interested in Bay then the Sox will resign him. If they "set" the market then the Sox may not and the Yankees will overpay for another player.

 

See my next post. I don't know what happened here.

[Spudboy]

 

If the Yankees aren't interested in Bay then the Sox will resign him. If they "set" the market then the Sox may not and the Yankees will overpay for another player.

 

This is exactly what it boils down to.