Trade/DL DiceK?

[Lived2seeit]

You seem to not know Jacko.

 

I talk about the irony in this post because he's always polishing Joba's rod and talking about how awesome he is, however, he unknowingly admitted how much Joba has actually sucked this year.

 

He may have somewhat solid peripherals, but the way he taxes the bullpen is eerily similar to Dice-K's, which was only the knock Jacko had on him.

 

:thumbsup: hahaha, I'll keep that in mind

[Dojji]

This organization is not going to throw Daisuke Matsuzaka to the wolves. So forget that.

 

I could see a DL stint. But that's the only way Daisuke Matsuzaka isn't starting a regular turn for us.

[BSN07]

I hope the DL him until the TDL. Give him a few weeks off with no throwing. By then they should have a feeling whether Dice-K will be able to be useful this season or not. If they think he is, they can move Penny. And if they have concerns they hold onto Penny, and we likely don't see Dice-K for the rest of the year. Or until rosters expand possibly.

[Dojji]

I still think they should take the opportunity to vet that shoulder of his THOROUGHLY and make sure they clean it out properly if it needs it. I suspect Daisuke's been playing hurt for a year and more now and that it's beyond what just a few months of rest will easily cure.

[Dipre]

I still think they should take the opportunity to vet that shoulder of his THOROUGHLY and make sure they clean it out properly if it needs it. I suspect Daisuke's been playing hurt for a year and more now and that it's beyond what just a few months of rest will easily cure.

 

He was throwing 95 the other day.

 

He's been sitting at 92 his last 2 starts, health is not the issue, his stubborness is.

[jacksonianmarch]

I still think they should take the opportunity to vet that shoulder of his THOROUGHLY and make sure they clean it out properly if it needs it. I suspect Daisuke's been playing hurt for a year and more now and that it's beyond what just a few months of rest will easily cure.

 

you do know that a shoulder surgery is a risky, risky proposition. If they go in there, then you are putting the last 3 yrs of his contract on the craps table

[BSN07]

you do know that a shoulder surgery is a risky' date=' risky proposition. If they go in there, then you are putting the last 3 yrs of his contract on the craps table[/quote']

 

I don't care for the thought of surgery either. But the way he's pitching now is making the last 3 years of his deal look like a risky situation anyways. But if it needs something call it a season, get it done and be ready and 100% come ST 2010.

[jacksonianmarch]

I still think that DiceK is going to play a major role in the sox stretch run, either good or bad. It is too early to operate on something that doesnt need an operation right now on a player who may or may not be useful to you down the stretch

[WhiskeyBreath]

I'd like to see him get some time off.

[example1]

At this point, Dice-K is going to have to be part of the discussion about what to do with him. His contracts limits options and his star-status and salary limit the Sox's options about "disrespecting" him too blatently. At the same time, he has to understand that he isn't helping the team. I don't know him personally (obviously) and know very little about his personality. I'm sure he has an ego, as he should, but I haven't heard that he's not a team guy.

 

Here's the options I could see for him:

 

Dice chooses to take time off and just sit it out (my fourth option)

Dice chooses to go to the minor leagues and work on his stuff (my prefered option)

Dice demands a trade

 

Sox search for injury problems, evaluate, then rehab stint (my second prefered option)

Sox move him to the bullpen

Sox demand that he go to AAA, sit him if he refuses (use up roster spot)

Sox have him skip a start or two, keep him on the MLB club and have him throw simulated games with coaches. (my third prefered option)

Sox continue losing every 5th day

 

Long story short, he's done for the time being in my book. He's had his chances, but he is just throwing s***** and this team is too good and has too many good pitchers knocking on the door to let him suck like this.

 

He has the choice: either make this easy for the club, or be a bitch. I'm hopeful that he will step up like a professional and make this easy. Work out your issues at AAA, take Smoltz's spot and come back (hopefully) for the second half and the playoffs.

[redsoxrules]

I dont see a trade

he needs to be on the DL

[jacksonianmarch]

FB still 93 mph and the slider and change still biting. He is just catching a ton of plate and the hitters are seeing him really well

[example1]

FB still 93 mph and the slider and change still biting. He is just catching a ton of plate and the hitters are seeing him really well

 

He's getting pounded even after he gets first strikes, and on first pitches.

 

After 0-1 (2009) |.347/.380/.600/.980 |

After 0-1 (career) | .202/.257/.307/.565|

 

His FB is about 1 mph slower than it has been the past few years, perhaps just enough to make a difference. :dunno:

 

Overall it seems all about how he is approaching his job. He can still put guys away but he just can't get there often enough. For some reason his control is shot relative to the past two seasons, and his only hope is to throw the ball over the plate, rather than actually pitching.

 

As much as most of us wish that they could DL him, I'm thankful that it doesn't appear as if a significant injury is the cause. I don't think Matsuzaka's career is overy by any stretch at the age of 28. He needs to get his head on straight and get back to the place where he was attacking batters from the get-go. The league may have adjusted, looking for those early fat strikes, so he needs to adjust back. Hard to do when you can't focus enough to get a breaking ball over for something close to a strike. Missing by 3 feet just doesn't achieve anything. You can't get bad calls from the ump and you can't set up the batter. Complete waste pitches, and he's throwing too many of them.

 

I think a break in one form or another, or some adjustment to his starting slot could get him what he needs to regain some strength and contribute again later in the year. It is still a long season.

[La mujer bonita]

The problem is, you can't sustain the level of dominance Dice-K had last year with men on base.

 

What Dice needs to do is stop being a douche and follow the FO's directive to pound the strike zone, specially with his breaking stuff when ahead in the count.

 

If he were capable of doing that at this point, I am sure he would. Somehow, I doubt he sucks out of spite.

[Dipre]

If he were capable of doing that at this point' date=' I am sure he would. Somehow, I doubt he sucks out of spite.[/quote']

 

Not out of spite, but out of stubornness. Different things.

[La mujer bonita]

Not out of spite' date=' but out of stubornness. Different things.[/quote']

 

I completely disagree. He looks like a guy who is trying to do what is asked of him, and simply isn't able to. He was throwing fastballs last night that were getting more of the plate than a fat guy at the Olde Country Buffet.

 

It may be that the 2008 Dice-K is the best of what we're going to get, despite the desire to have him be something different.

[Dipre]

I completely disagree. He looks like a guy who is trying to do what is asked of him, and simply isn't able to. He was throwing fastballs last night that were getting more of the plate than a fat guy at the Olde Country Buffet.

 

It may be that the 2008 Dice-K is the best of what we're going to get, despite the desire to have him be something different.

 

He gave up 5 walks.

 

He's nibbling, and ony trying to throw strikes when behind in the count.

[La mujer bonita]

He gave up 5 walks.

 

He's nibbling, and ony trying to throw strikes when behind in the count.

 

He was nibbling last night because anytime he tried to throw a strike it got crushed. Same thing in Texas, when he didn't walk anybody.

 

I just think the approach is wrong. It seems like they're trying to make him into a Pedro, which he clearly is not. I think they'd be better off refining what he is instead of trying to make him into something completely different.

[Dipre]

He was nibbling last night because anytime he tried to throw a strike it got crushed. Same thing in Texas, when he didn't walk anybody.

 

I just think the approach is wrong. It seems like they're trying to make him into a Pedro, which he clearly is not. I think they'd be better off refining what he is instead of trying to make him into something completely different.

 

A Pedro?

 

They're just trying to make him throw strikes.

 

You know, what every succesful pitcher in the Majors does.

[La mujer bonita]

A Pedro?

 

They're just trying to make him throw strikes.

 

You know, what every succesful pitcher in the Majors does.

 

You're missing the point, and being unnecessarily snarky in the process.

 

I'm not saying don't throw strikes. But the biggest issue with him is not that he can't get guys out, it's that he expends a lot of energy doing it. He's clearly not comfortable going at guys aggressively, likes living on the corners. Why not find an approach that complements his strengths instead of his weaknesses?

[Dipre]

You're missing the point, and being unnecessarily snarky in the process.

 

I'm not saying don't throw strikes. But the biggest issue with him is not that he can't get guys out, it's that he expends a lot of energy doing it. He's clearly not comfortable going at guys aggressively, likes living on the corners. Why not find an approach that complements his strengths instead of his weaknesses?

 

Simple.

 

He can't get people out because he's always behind in the count.

[Looch Ness Monster]

Definitely need to move him to the bullpen and assign him to mop up duty. There's really no other way for him to figure himself out

[Rdsxmbnt]

Definitely need to move him to the bullpen and assign him to mop up duty. There's really no other way for him to figure himself out

 

He's going to figure himself out with mop-up duty?

[das11209]

Bullpen duty is not gonna help. DL him and then start minor league assignents till he is ready.

[Gom]

The Asian Persuasion guys [Dice-K, Wang], both counted on to give a lot of support to their team, have collapsed. I'd be more worried about Dice-K, as he has never been much more than a 5-6 inning pitcher and is tired. Wang still sucks, but at least he can go deeper into games.

 

They both are terrible. Trading Penny is a mistake that you guys will probably do. Right now, he's a million times better than Dice.

[Cocos Disciples]

I don't think we'll trade Penny.

[ms_sox]

AmalieBenjamin - "Daisuke out of the rotation. To be looked at by Dr. Gill after physical issues came up, Francona says."

 

Sounds like they're coming up with an excuse to DL him.

[Cocos Disciples]

Out of the rotation probably means DL rather than bullpen. I'd rather have him work out his problems in the minors and have someone better in the pen.

[ms_sox]

I started out thinking I'd like to see him in the bullpen myself, but I've reconsidered...he's doing so bad it's not like I'd want to see him come out to pitch when we have a slim 1 run lead, or something, and if you just leave him on bench whole time, it's a 'waste' of a bullpen spot and helps him not..

 

Minors is the best option imo, but that may be too much for ego/contract. With DL, at least as it's ending, it's a rehab excuse as a way to get him to play minor games later, for a week or two, to see how he's doing? Or do I not understand the DL thing...

[Cocos Disciples]

He can't go to the minors without going on the DL. And yes you are right, if he goes on the DL he can then pitch some rehab games.