Redsox SS, the turngate of MLB.

[SCM33]

In this thread, I would like for all of to discuss just what exactly has happened over the years during Theos regime as Bostons GM. What has happened here?

 

It started with Nomar, when it became clear they could not rely on him to play everyday, or when his desire was questioned, they dealt him away. I was OK with that. His career track since the trade has worked out well for Boston.

 

Orlando Cabrera: Much controversy surrounds him. He did a great job here, and should have been resigned, but behind the door stuff hurt him with the rumors of him charming other teammates girlfriends/wives. I can understand the move to let him walk.

 

Edgar Renteria: Offensively, he was not all that bad and I think his defense was a bit of a fluke. He was a butcher with the leather in 2005, but for his career, a very good D SS. He won a couple of GG (although that award doesnt mean much). I think we may have given up on him too early but Theos MO with SS is the glove (replacing Nomar with Cabrera and Renteria with Gonzalez.....altough Lugo does not support my theory).

 

Alex Gonzalez: Greatest D SS I have ever seen wear a Sox uniform. Theo had another knee jerk reaction, this time wanting more offense out of the position, and acquired Lugo, a notorious Red Sox killer. He went back on his previous commitments to have a good defensive SS being that Lugo has never been known for the leather. Biggest mistake IMO since he had arguably the best D SS in baseball who had also remembered how to hit a little.

 

Julio Lugo: biggest mistake in Theos GM regime. What was he thinking? He was never all that good with the stick, and only average with the glove. Combine this with the difficult field conditions at the Fens (always one of the toughest infields to play on) and you had recipe for disaster. Hes been brutal with the bat and glove. Do a couple of good games against your club really amount to a big time deal?

 

Did Theo really believe it was in the best interest to rid himself of Renteria, at the time a household name at SS, Cabrera over a few off the field altercations which could have been smoothed over, especially since Foulke was on his way out, and Gonzalez who was incredible defensively and capable offensively for Julio Lugo?

 

What was he thinking? Does anybody have any insight as to why he made these decisions? No offense to Green or Lowrie, but why are we stuck with Green/Lowrie/ Lugo when we could still have Cabrera/Gonzalez/Renteria who are all better than the latter Shortstops?

 

-SCM33

[BigPapiEnFuego]

Not signing Gonzalez after 2006 was stupid. He was amazing defensively but not even all that bad offensively. just looking at things home run and RBI wise Gonzalez and Lugo aren't that far apart, but Gonzalez was miles ahead in defense. Cabrera would of been good to have around too, but overall Gonzalez was where it was at. Stupid move by Theo

[jacksonianmarch]

Well, since Gonzo left, he hasnt been healthy. So it really has turned out to be a s*** for s*** swap, just the sox paid more for their s***.

[TheKilo]

I hope everyone realizes Gonzalez's defense was MASSIVELY overrated, similar to Lowell's.

[Cocos Disciples]

And he was beyond miserable offensively.

[SCM33]

I hope everyone realizes Gonzalez's defense was MASSIVELY overrated' date=' similar to Lowell's.[/quote']

 

And he was beyond miserable offensively.

 

 

You'd honestly rather have Lugo than kept Gonzalez (injury aside, nobody could predict injury)? Dont say neither either......staying with the chain of transactions that occurred, you'd rather they signed Lugo?

[Cocos Disciples]

And why can't I say neither? They both suck. It's like choosing Swine flu or SARS.

[jacksonianmarch]

SARS was much worse IMO.

[TheKilo]

You'd honestly rather have Lugo than kept Gonzalez (injury aside' date=' nobody could predict injury)? Dont say neither either......staying with the chain of transactions that occurred, you'd rather they signed Lugo?[/quote']

 

Nice strawman.

[a700hitter]

I hope everyone realizes Gonzalez's defense was MASSIVELY overrated' date=' similar to Lowell's.[/quote']Not me.

[TheKilo]

Not me.

 

Not entirely surprising.

[Dojji]

Eh Gonzo wasn't that bad, wasn't too sad to see him go though. His kind come and go.

 

Didn't like the Lugo signing at the time. It has not grown on me since.

 

Frustrating thing is that we don't really have that prospect, not at any level, that we can look forward to and say "Here. Here is our shortstop." One of the reasons I tend to hold the minority opinion on Casey Kelly and would prefer to see him developed as a desparately-needed SS rather than yet another high-ceiling pitching prospect.

[Dipre]

Eh Gonzo wasn't that bad, wasn't too sad to see him go. Didn't like the Lugo signing at the time but it has not grown on me since.

 

Frustrating thing is that we don't really have that prospect, not at any level, that we can look forward to and say "Here. Here is our shortstop." One of the reasons I tend to hold the minority opinion on Casey Kelly and would prefer to see him developed as a desparately-needed SS rather than yet another high-ceiling pitching prospect.

 

There's a reason why that opinion is minority.

 

Theo's lack of success in finding a cornerstone SS is all on him, however, finding a way to plug that hole would be much easier via trade or FA than to try and develop a just-drafted prospect such as Kelly.

 

Let him develop as a pitcher if that's what he's best suited for and find a SS elsewhere if Lowrie's not the answer (Lugo an Green are obviously not the answer).

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

I hope everyone realizes Gonzalez's defense was MASSIVELY overrated' date=' similar to Lowell's.[/quote']

But he actually knew how to field.

[Dipre]

But he actually knew how to field.

 

Lugo and Green make him look like an iron wall.......

[Dojji]

Lugo and Green make him look like an iron wall.......

 

Nah, Gonzo was actually a fair to good defender at worst, his problem was he couldn't stay on the field.

[TheKilo]

Nah' date=' Gonzo was actually a fair to good defender at worst, his problem was he couldn't stay on the field.[/quote']

 

I think he's speaking to the complete lack of range, which I agree with 100%

[Dipre]

I think he's speaking to the complete lack of range' date=' which I agree with 100%[/quote']

 

Thank you.

[DirtDog]

Gonzo for the past, present and future.

[Dojji]

You know, Green isn't doing half bad out there right now... at least he's doing a fair job filling in and certainly could be a lot worse. That said, still can't wait for the return of an above average SS on this team.

[Lived2seeit]

am I gonna get punched if I mention Hanley?

[example1]

am I gonna get punched if I mention Hanley?

 

No, and you won't find anyone here who thinks he's a bad option if he's available. He doesn't appear to be, or the discussions ended when the Marlins said "Buchholz, Bowden, Bard, Tazawa, Anderson and Kalish for Hanley"...

[Lived2seeit]

ya, I'd end the discussions too, but I'm talking more along the lines of letting him go to begin with....but then again, I love Beckett and Lowell. Just a tough situation all around

[Keeper]

Take the trade back, and you can also give your '07 rings back.

[Dojji]

Take the trade back' date=' and you can also give your '07 rings back.[/quote']

 

Pretty much. Imagine Millar or some other mid-range schlub at 1B instead of Lowell at 3B and no Beckett. We don't even take the division. We might not make the playoffs. That, or we wind up having to enter the Teixeira's sweepstakes in the middle of a seller's market and probably give up Buchholz for the privellege. Probably Ellsbury too.

 

Of course the flipside is that with no Lowell, we might have kept Carlos Pena, but there's no guarantee he becomes what he now is here, either.

[Lived2seeit]

don't get me wrong, Im not complaining...I just get a little bit sad when i think about Hanely; but of course I'm well aware what the sox would be giving up if beckett and lowell werent there

[High Mileage]

Be thankful Tony Pena Jr. isn't on your roster...

[Dojji]

Be thankful Tony Pena Jr. isn't on your roster...

 

He isn't on your roster either last time I checked. Has that changed?

[High Mileage]

He isn't on your roster either last time I checked. Has that changed?

He's been on the roster ever since we got him back in '07. He was on the DL for a time this year, but he's started 5 times for us this month. I am in a personal boycott of all games in which he starts. Major Leaguer he is not.

[Dojji]

I dunno about that, I kinda liked his stuff. He really needs to work on that slider though. Good break, and great separation, but terrible location -- kept leaving it right in the middle of the zone.

 

Oh, you mean as an infielder. Yeah, agree completely.