Curt Schilling retires

[David Bowie]

it's kind of like a good movie with a sad ending.

[a700hitter]

Let me slow it down for you, since this is obviously becoming increasingly difficult for you to grasp.

 

The Red Sox sign Curt Schilling to an $8 million dollar contract. Mutual decision.

 

It is discovered Curt Schilling has shoulder issues. Mutual blame on this one, how the Sox could sign him when his shoulder is hanging by a thread is beyond me.

 

There are two courses of action. Rehab or surgery. Schilling wants surgery. Red Sox FO wants rehab. Red Sox FO gets their way, much to the displeasure of Schilling, whose camp voices their displeasure.

 

Now. If Schilling wanted the surgery so badly, why didn't he just void his contract with the Sox and go get the surgery? Is it because he wanted the $8 million? If that's the case, Schilling made himself look like an ass for badmouthing the FO. All they did was try to get an investment from Schilling last season. Schilling's a smart guy, he should have realized all the Sox were doing was a business decision.

 

But he still felt the need to mouth off.

But he acquiesced to the FO decision even though they were wrong. Is that slow enough for you? He was right to disagree with the FO, because his doctor was right.

[Dojji]

Now. If Schilling wanted the surgery so badly, why didn't he just void his contract with the Sox and go get the surgery? Is it because he wanted the $8 million?

 

You're kidding me, right? Schilling didn't WANT surgery. Who wants to be cut open? He NEEDED surgery. But until the Sox came around Schill was in a position where he had nothing to lose.

 

His doctor had him convinced that it was the only way to return to pitching shape, but if the Sox wanted to hold out for their little medical dog and pony show, he could go through with it for $8 million. And if the Sox were right and Dr. Morgan was wrong then maybe he could get to do what he REALLY wanted to do -- pitch.

 

Obviously it didn't work out but it was a carefully calculated risk on both sides, not something done on a whim.

[a700hitter]

You're kidding me, right? Schilling didn't WANT surgery. Who wants to be cut open? He NEEDED surgery. But until the Sox came around Schill was in a position where he had nothing to lose.

 

His doctor had him convinced that it was the only way to return to pitching shape, but if the Sox wanted to hold out for their little medical dog and pony show, he could go through with it for $8 million. And if the Sox were right and Dr. Morgan was wrong then maybe he could get to do what he REALLY wanted to do -- pitch.

 

Obviously it didn't work out but it was a carefully calculated risk on both sides, not something done on a whim.

Sounds like a clear case of robbery.

[TheKilo]

You're kidding me, right? Schilling didn't WANT surgery. Who wants to be cut open? He NEEDED surgery. But until the Sox came around Schill was in a position where he had nothing to lose.

 

His doctor had him convinced that it was the only way to return to pitching shape, but if the Sox wanted to hold out for their little medical dog and pony show, he could go through with it for $8 million. And if the Sox were right and Dr. Morgan was wrong then maybe he could get to do what he REALLY wanted to do -- pitch.

 

Obviously it didn't work out but it was a carefully calculated risk on both sides, not something done on a whim.

 

So do you agree with a700 that if the Sox gave let him have the surgery in March he would have been ready by September?

 

Fact - Sox paid Schilling $8 million to pitch and he did not throw one last season. Stealing is a harsh word, how about complete waste of money?

 

It was a terrible contract. At least they don't owe him any more money.

[a700hitter]

Fact - Sox paid Schilling $8 million to pitch and he did not throw one last season. Stealing is a harsh word' date=' how about complete waste of money?[/quote']Can't argue with that. The FO wasted $8 million. Their bad.

[BoSox21]

In the end, it was on the FO to make sure his shoulder was healthy-enough to warrant the contract

[TheKilo]

And because Schilling wanted to pitch so badly, he ran to have the surgery, right?

[BoSox21]

He went with the team's wishes. Obviously, he should've gone to have the surgery then it could've been Schilling starting Game 4 of the ALCS

[a700hitter]

And because Schilling wanted to pitch so badly' date=' he ran to have the surgery, right?[/quote']Yes, right again. We are agreeing a lot more lately.

[26 to 6]

There, I fixed it for you and saved a boatload of space.

 

BTW, idiot, Clemens legacy is that of the greatest RH pitcher in history if his off field trangressions didn't put a shadow of doubt on the legitimacy of his on field performance. The two are inexorably linked. Nice try, but try bouncing your idea off someone with dash of sense next time before you post.

That wasn't what I was referring to. I was just referring to how people will remember him leaving the game. Obviously it's a different situation, but they're comparable when looking at it from that aspect. Dipshit.

[BoSox21]

No one outside Boston or New York even remembers Schilling being under contract to the Sox last season. The entire country knows the Clemens story. Huge difference.

[26 to 6]

You are entitled to your opinion' date=' but IMO he is not in the same league as ARod when it comes to being a clown. ARod is an enormous embarrassment, and unlike Schilling who was post season money, ARod comes up smaller than an Irishman who has been swimming in ice water. Oh yeah, and he had to cheat to be such an utter failure.[/quote']

Can't disagree with you on this post, that's for sure. A-Rod is a straight up jester, he makes Schilling look like a bad Bozo impersonator.

[a700hitter]

No one outside Boston or New York even remembers Schilling being under contract to the Sox last season. The entire country knows the Clemens story. Huge difference.

...and it is very possible that Clemens will go to jail. Now, that is going out on your own terms. Only Pete Rose had a worse exit. "Moy Gawd!!! Roger Clemens is in George Stoinbrenner's jail cell!!!"

[BoSox21]

Bonds' exit has been pretty bad. The threat of jail time coupled with his agent sending a letter to every team basically begging them to give the all-time home run king a job

[David Bowie]

did you mean begging.

 

i put my shoe down baby and im holdin down young moolah baby

[BoSox21]

yes

[VA Sox Fan]

"Retarded-Ass"? You are sounding very presidential.

 

Ha ha! I don't understand the ripping of a pitcher who came to Boston to help the Sox win a WS and manages to do that in his first season.

 

The other stuff doesn't matter IMO.

 

Wish he and his family well, and move on. A million thanks to Schill!

 

Opening day in 13 days, 5 hours and 11 minutes...... :thumbsup:

[ORS]

That wasn't what I was referring to. I was just referring to how people will remember him leaving the game. Obviously it's a different situation' date=' but they're comparable when looking at it from that aspect. Dipshit.[/quote']

It's a different situation because what he did off the field impacts how people think about what he did on the field. Put more bluntly, whatever Clemens did on the field will be viewed with a heavy dose of skepticism. Short of a new list coming out, Schilling's last performance will stand. So, no, they really aren't comparable. It's no surprise you need this spelled out.

[MANNYHOF24]

Then how do you explain Curt bad mouthing the FO when they asked him to rehab the shoulder instead of have surgery?

 

If I can remember correctly, Curt was told by his doctor, that if he had surgery right off the bat he could have had a chance to return by August, instead of having no chance to pitch if rehabbing. Of course it was probably ********. I honestly believe when Curt signed the deal he thought he was going to be able to pitch in the 2008 season. I don't think he stole or owes the Red Sox anything. As a fan of the team, and for what he accomplished pitching here I will choose to not care about that when remembering him.

[BSN07]

Thanks for what you did for Boston Curt.

 

 

He may be retiring, but I find it hard to believe we won't be hearing from him in some manor eventually:D

[rician blast]

There'll be a number of pitchers contending for HOF honors in the next few years.

 

Clemens woulda been a shoe-in if not for the PED allegations

Pedro is in

Glavine is in

Randy Johnson is in

Maddux is in

 

After that there is Schilling, John Smoltz (who excelled as a closer for 3 of 4 years and likely would have won 250 if he remained a starter)...I think both get in.

 

Then you get to the real fringe guys...Mussina gets some play, he's won 54 more games than Schilling, has 2800 strikeouts, but has a higher era than Schill or Smoltz and has never won anything. After that it the list weakens...some have mentioned Kevin Brown...I say no way...211 wins and less than 2400 K's, despite a career ERA of 3.28 ain't gonna get it done...not without an outstanding postseason career.

[MANNYHOF24]

Thanks for what you did for Boston Curt.

 

 

He may be retiring, but I find it hard to believe we won't be hearing from him in some manor eventually:D

 

He has a regular spot on the big show on weei. I wouldn't be surprised if NESN made a play for him for pre and post game stuff. I think that would be right up his ally, and would be a completely compelling in that position. No offense to Jim Rice, but Schilling would be way better analyzing the game.

[a700hitter]

From today's Boston Herald:

 

By the time the Sox won again, three years later, Schilling had ceded the role of ace to Josh Beckett [stats], who was the best pitcher on the planet in October 2007. But still Schilling contributed a win in each of three playoff rounds. This time, he overcame not a repaired ankle but a withered right shoulder and a mediocre fastball.

 

Last year, reflecting back on Schilling’s 3-0 record in the ’07 postseason, a member of the baseball operations department confessed: “To this day, I have no idea how he did that. None.”

 

Chalk it up to an unmatched mixture of will, spirit and competitiveness.

 

“He was an amazing piece for this ballclub,” Ortiz said. “That’s the way I see it.”

 

The missing piece. The winning piece.

[BSN07]

Hey Guys, I know there are mixed feeling on Colin Cowherd here, but he made a pretty good argument for Schilling going into the HOF.

 

Schilling was the best pitcher when it mattered most. His regular season stats may not be as big as some, but when it mattered most, very few come near his achievements on the mound. And if your the best pitcher when it matters most, how can you not be a HOF?

 

Also he made a point about Schilling going to 2 different franchises with losing cultures. And won multiple Championships while being a major difference maker every time.

 

 

I was on the fence about Schilling being a HOF, but these seem to be valid points and something to consider in the long run.

[BoSox21]

But apparently the playoffs are a crapshoot so it's by luck that Schilling was so good in the post-season...

[CrespoBlows]

But apparently the playoffs are a crapshoot so it's by luck that Schilling was so good in the post-season...

 

A great pitcher pitched great in the postseason? Doesn't surprise me.

[BSN07]

I'm kind of drowning out the Yankee fans on this topic, I normally don't because I respect their personal opinions even if I don't agree with them. But they have far too much bias against Schilling. He ended their dynasty in AZ., and helped bring 2 Championships to the Red Sox. If they are ever going to be bitterly biased against anyone, it will be him:D

[TheKilo]

But apparently the playoffs are a crapshoot so it's by luck that Schilling was so good in the post-season...

 

Well, one could make the argument that the postseason shouldn't be taken with as much weight because guys like Bert Blyleven toiled in obscurity on really bad teams and never got the chance to prove himself in the postseason.

 

I don't put so much weight on it because baseball, above any other game, has so much variance across eras, ballparks, etc. that it doesn't make much sense to penalize someone whose team played in the postseason when another didn't.

 

I think Schilling is a HoF, not first ballot, but he'll get in.

[ORS]

Blyleven has 2 WS rings, and his postseason record is a good one. Of course, he doesn't have any iconic moments in his postseason record, and he really wasn't the leader of his teams' chances either time.

 

I also disagree that postseason excellence shouldn't be assigned as much weight. It is the Hall of "Fame", and postseason excellence makes a player famous more than just about anything. It's when everyone is watching. This isn't to say that career nothings who had many postseason chances in supporting roles and did well in those chances should gain entry. No, you need to have a regular season resume, IMO, to get your postseason looked at. Curt makes that cut, and his postseason gets him in.