Red Sox made play for SS Ramirez

[NateGrey]

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http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2008/baseball/mlb/12/29/heyman.verducci.hanley.red.sox/p1.hanley.jpg

 

 

The Red Sox made a play to re-acquire Marlins superstar Hanley Ramirez after losing out to the rival Yankees for star free agent Mark Teixeira, league sources tell SI.com. But while the Marlins listened to Boston's overtures, Florida isn't anxious to trade its best player, and talks apparently have been aborted after no agreement could be reached.

 

link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/baseball/mlb/12/29/heyman.verducci.hanley.red.sox/index.html?eref=si_mlb

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Cocos Disciples]

Well hey there friend. Already got this covered.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Good luck with that.

[Dojji]

Not surprised they tried. The Fish are notoriously stingy and they've been known to trade any established talent for youth at the first opportunity. Nor am I surprised that Theo kicked the tired on this. While I have a lot of respect for, and faith in, Jed Lowrie, Hanley represents an instant upgrade on the level of production we've had in SS over the last few years, to a level that we'd have to be very lucky to get from Lowrie.

 

This doesn't surprise me nearly as much as the last Marlins trade rumor which had them in the Manny hunt. Likely just like the last time, cash was likely a sticking point again.

[BSN07]

Not surprised they tried. The Fish are notoriously stingy and they've been known to trade any established talent for youth at the first opportunity. Nor am I surprised that Theo kicked the tired on this. While I have a lot of respect for, and faith in, Jed Lowrie, Hanley represents an instant upgrade on the level of production we've had in SS over the last few years, to a level that we'd have to be very lucky to get from Lowrie.

 

This doesn't surprise me nearly as much as the last Marlins trade rumor which had them in the Manny hunt. Likely just like the last time, cash was likely a sticking point again.

 

I think we can assume the Sox would be picking up the whole contract. the sticking point will be what high end talent is going back to Florida in return for Hanley.

 

09:$5.5M, 10:$7M, 11:$11M, 12:$15M, 13:$15.5M, 14:$16M

 

We have been talking about this in the other thread, and a good point was made. Hanley is reasonably priced for Florida for 2 more seasons. After that he starts to really get payed. So it's not unreasonable to think they would listen to offers on him.

 

 

 

I like the fact the FO is trying to work on something like this. But trying and doing are 2 different things. I'd like to see some one actually brought in, instead of flirting with the idea and not do anything.

 

 

Go in and blow the Fish away and get him before someone else realizes Florida is listening to offers.

 

I usually don't advocate trading lots of talent, but Hanley is unique.

[Dojji]

Agreed. I'm stepping a bit outside my usual role as well. Hanley Ramirez is hugely talented and is a walking exception to the rules. He does it all -- major power hitter and speed burner. If you can get a guy like that your lineup is instantly so much better that you've got to go for it.

 

Buchholz, Lowrie, Bard, Expo, to open the bidding. I'd expect the Fish GM to at least make a counteroffer to a proposal like that.

[Paradisecity]

Id work the package around Bucholz, Lowrie and Ellsbury to start

[Dojji]

Id work the package around Bucholz' date=' Lowrie and Ellsbury to start[/quote']

 

THe problem with offering Ellsbury is who plays CF? Even for Hanley, I'm not sanguine about making holes to fill non-holes. That's what got us in trouble in the original Hanley trade.

 

Besides, I'm a greedy bastard and I want the Ellsbury-Pedroia-Ramirez-Ortiz lineup concept intact. That's a lot of first-inning runs.

 

If we trade Jacoby the Crisp trade instantly becomes a loser.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Not happening.

[Dojji]

No, probably not, but hey, you never know. This IS the Marlins. We didn't think they'd trade MCab when they did either.

[BSN07]

Id work the package around Bucholz' date=' Lowrie and Ellsbury to start[/quote']

 

I'd replace Ellsbury with a SP and anothe prospect(2 instead of 1 type thing), like Hadagone(I know he's coming off injury, but has great upside).

 

Buchholz

Lowrie

Hadagone

Reddick/Kalish(OF prospect)

+1-2 low level guys(including the young high upside Almanzar)

Or put a Catcher in there somewhere, since Florida seems to be thin at that position.

 

 

I'd have to see that as a inticing offer.

 

Buchholz is the top notch pitching prospect, Lowrie is the ML ready player, Hadagone is a small risk big upside guy. Then you got a couple guys that will need time in the minors that will contribute in a few years.

[Paradisecity]

THe problem with offering Ellsbury is who plays CF? Even for Hanley, I'm not sanguine about making holes to fill non-holes. That's what got us in trouble in the original Hanley trade.

 

Besides, I'm a greedy bastard and I want the Ellsbury-Pedroia-Ramirez-Ortiz lineup concept intact. That's a lot of first-inning runs.

 

If we trade Jacoby the Crisp trade instantly becomes a loser.

 

I see what you mean-particularly about the crisp trade and having two speedsters like Ells and Hanley followed by power makes a team very dangerous. I also think, though, that there are options available for a centerfielder (payton, for one). Further, it appears that Ellsbury is the guy the marlins apparently want, and being an MLB player he would significantly decrease the other talent in the deal.

[BSN07]

No' date=' probably not, but hey, you never know. This IS the Marlins. [b']We didn't think they'd trade MCab [/b]when they did either.

 

LOL we all knew he was getting traded. It was no secret.

 

Infact it was discussed at extent here as to whether the Sox should get involved or not.

[Dojji]

Payton.. YUCK. I'd rather have a Van Every-Baldelli platoon.

[BSN07]

I see what you mean-particularly about the crisp trade and having two speedsters like Ells and Hanley followed by power makes a team very dangerous. I also think' date=' though, that there are options available for a centerfielder (payton, for one). Further, it appears that Ellsbury is the guy the marlins apparently want, and being an MLB player he would significantly decrease the other talent in the deal.[/quote']

 

I really like Ellsbury, but if he brought in Hanley I'd say so be it.

 

But I would like to see him stay if at all possible, even if it means giving up a litlle more prospect talent from the system.

[Dojji]

LOL we all knew he was getting traded. It was no secret.

 

Infact it was discussed at extent here as to whether the Sox should get involved or not.

 

Alright, alright, *I* didn't think they'd trade MCab. Not when the rumors first appeared. I thought it was an insane business model.

[TheKilo]

The article said they were looking at Hanley to be their CF.

[Dojji]

Huzzabawha??? They have a CF.

[BSN07]

Alright' date=' alright, *I* didn't think they'd trade MCab. Not when the rumors first appeared. I thought it was an[b'] insane business model[/b].

 

LOL it's the Marlins, what else where they going to do.

 

It's a fairly good buisness model actually. When a player gets too expensive they trade him for 3+ players, that are cost controlled for multi seasons. Thus not having to invest the money they recieve from revenue sharing back into the payroll.

 

Florida's owners is pocketing 20M plus a season easily. That doesn't seem to be a bad buisness model.

[BSN07]

Huzzabawha??? They have a CF.

 

Ya, and Maybin in Legit. But the article said they would move Ellsbury to a corner OF spot.

[Dojji]

The Marlins are nuts. Why not just give them Reddick instead and they can put an actual corner outfielder in the corner outfield spot?

[Paradisecity]

Payton.. YUCK. I'd rather have a Van Every-Baldelli platoon.

 

There's an option.

[BSN07]

The Marlins are nuts. Why not just give them Reddick instead and they can put an actual corner outfielder in the corner outfield spot?

 

That's feesable. But i'm sure the Sox would have to add a player if it was Reddick(2 players instead of the 1, the one being Ellsbury).

[Dojji]

Actually it does work better than I thought -- I was just throwing that out there but that could actually work. Baldelli certainly is durable enough to be the righthanded hitter in a true platoon and it'd be a way to guarantee him playing time and get him to sign.

 

EDIT: Van Every-Baldelli platoon of CF.

[TheKilo]

Huzzabawha??? They have a CF.

 

What?

 

The Sox would trade Ellsbury to the Marlins and Hanley would become the Red Sox CF.

[Paradisecity]

What?

 

The Sox would trade Ellsbury to the Marlins and Hanley would become the Red Sox CF.

 

 

...which would be great, IMO. Huge upgrade at the price of prospects.

[BSN07]

I like Hanley in CF.

 

Although I'd rather see him at SS or 3B. But that is only because of my personal opinion Ellsbury. Not to say I dislike Lowrie or Lowell in anyway though. Ideally he would replace Lowell(again this is just personal preference), with Lowrie at SS and Ellsbury in CF. But if I had to choose between Lowrie/Ellsbury on who I'd rather see Hanley replace, i'd vote for Lowrie.

 

 

But that's only assuming there is a choice. If Ellsbury has to be in the deal, then I would not object.

[BSN07]

Assuming we are throwing things around for conversation sake,

 

Best case scenario for Red Sox offseason IMO,

 

Sox Bring in Hanley with out moving Ellsbury/Lowrie, Lowrie becomes super utility player, gives you depth incase Lowell struggles as well. Or they could move Lowell for X, and put Hanley at 3B.

 

Lugo+Bowden for Montero and Byrnes.

 

 

I know that will take a big toll on the Farm System, but given who is signed currently the team would be set at major positions for the next 2-4 years. Which would give the farm system time to replenish itself.

[Paradisecity]

Assuming we are throwing things around for conversation sake,

 

Best case scenario for Red Sox offseason IMO,

 

Sox Bring in Hanley with out moving Ellsbury/Lowrie, Lowrie becomes super utility player, gives you depth incase Lowell struggles as well. Or they could move Lowell for X, and put Hanley at 3B.

 

Lugo+Bowden for Montero and Byrnes.

 

 

I know that will take a big toll on the Farm System, but given who is signed currently the team would be set at major positions for the next 2-4 years. Which would give the farm system time to replenish itself.

 

Id much rather see Ellsbury go, see Hanley in CF, and see the extra pitching prospects that we otherwise would have traded be left in the system.

[BSN07]

Id much rather see Ellsbury go' date=' see Hanley in CF, and see the extra pitching prospects that we otherwise would have traded be left in the system.[/quote']

 

Like I said I wouldn't object too that.

 

 

But assuming any deal is going to have to include Buchholz, I'd rather not see Buchholz and Ellsbury go in the same deal. But I could see reasoning for such a deal.

 

Buchholz/Masterson/Lowrie/Reddick(Kalish,Westmoreland)/Kottraras(Brown/Esposito)

 

Would that be enough of a "wow" to make Florida move on it?:dunno: