Plan B

[jacksonianmarch]

Pretty sure Smoltz won't go sulk in the DR if he's asked to change his role however.

 

Smoltz will need to go soak in some HGH and maybe some veterinary roids in the DR before he can assume any role.

[example1]

Smoltz will need to go soak in some HGH and maybe some veterinary roids in the DR before he can assume any role.

 

Do the Yankees still have room in their HGH Whirlpool, or did Giambi and Pettitte drain it dry?

[example1]

Any chance the Sox could use Smoltz as a long reliever? He's been a good reliever in the past and they could use a true long relief arm.... just a thought.

[TheLittleEngineThatCould]

I really don't think that Smoltz would fit in as a long reliever.. I think that the only slot that he would be really benifiitial to us is as a starter and I don't think that we need him there. Plus with the addition of Tazawa i think that the best thing would be for us to keep the current rotation and bullpen. The only thing that we should do is pick up Peavy or Sheets and work them in some how.........Other than that there is no need for a big trade and just because everybody else makes trades doesn't mean that we need too..............

[TheLittleEngineThatCould]

I really don't think that Smoltz would fit in as a long reliever.. I think that the only slot that he would be really benifiitial to us is as a starter and I don't think that we need him there. Plus with the addition of Tazawa i think that the best thing would be for us to keep the current rotation and bullpen. The only thing that we should do is pick up Peavy or Sheets and work them in some how.........Other than that there is no need for a big trade and just because everybody else makes trades doesn't mean that we need too..............

[rician blast]

Do the Yankees still have room in their HGH Whirlpool' date=' or did Giambi and Pettitte drain it dry?[/quote']

 

 

You mean Andy "I only did like once..I mean twice...I mean how much evidence do you have?" Pettitte?

 

I think they saved some for a farmhands Mitre and Tavares, no?

[Cocos Disciples]

I really don't think that Smoltz would fit in as a long reliever.. I think that the only slot that he would be really benifiitial to us is as a starter and I don't think that we need him there. Plus with the addition of Tazawa i think that the best thing would be for us to keep the current rotation and bullpen. The only thing that we should do is pick up Peavy or Sheets and work them in some how.........Other than that there is no need for a big trade and just because everybody else makes trades doesn't mean that we need too..............

 

?

 

Besides, Tazawa is at least a year away. He's starting in AA this year, he's not a viable rotation option this year unless everyone gets hurt.

[example1]

Given that this is the Plan B thread, let's talk plan B.

 

I don't think there is much of one. That was fun, huh?

 

The Sox have two of the top 3 MVP finishers from last year. They have a very good top 3 pitching staff and some servicable #4 and #5 options. Their bullpen is solid, their defense is quite good, and they have a lineup that can compete with any lineup in baseball.

 

Catcher:

I don't think they are going to get either Teagarden or Salty, and I don't see them giving up much for Montero either. My guess is that they will not move Buchholz, Bowden, Masterson or Anderson as part of attaining a catcher. Their long term catching option may be a year or two down the road.

 

Presently, the Sox should put out a $5m x 2 year deal for Tek, and tell him (and Boras) they have until the end of the week to take it. Otherwise they will reduce their offer to $5m over two years and that's it. Then they should sign someone else, and platoon between Bard and whoever else they get. Have Red Sox nation get over it eventually. Maybe Kottaras, maybe Zaun, whoever. f*** it. Take it or leave it Tek, or enjoy playing in another city; allow your douchebag agent to field all the offers that you have coming in and go play for the Dodgers or Mets or even the Yankees.. whatever.

 

Pitching: This team is really relying on Clay Buchholz to have an effective season next year; his stuff is still tremendous and he has the stuff to be a top of the rotation starter. If he can pitch to 50% effectiveness that should add some wins to the club. I think Wakefield may be looking at retirement. Their signings and seeming lack of concern about having a Wake-ified catcher seems to indicate that he won't be a key part of the rotation. I could be totally wrong, or I could just be doing some wishful thinking.

 

Outfield: Extend Bay if he is open to it. Otherwise, watch the fun next off season as the Yankees spend 300% above value for all the players that they want while every other team goes through the worst economy since the great depression. As a financially sound team with a good gameplan, the Sox should be there to pick up the pieces and will probably be competitive.

 

Long term, try to get another in-his-prime pitcher under the radar, from a team that needs to do more rebuilding than they do competing. There aren't many options out there who might be good fits and big impacts. Check with SEA about what it would take to get Felix, talk to the Giants about Lincecum and Cain, talk to KC about Greinke. Beyond that I can't imagine pitchers who are either too volatile, too old, not good enough, or not on teams who are competing with the Red Sox.

 

Again, wishful thinking, but it's thinking outside of the box a bit.

 

Farm: Continue to bid on the best international free agents, sign all players they draft and don't be afraid to go over slot. It seems like their best way to maxamize their financial edge over other clubs without doing it in the FA pool.

 

Overall, I think this is a very good team with some pieces that hold a lot of promise and who should come to fruition this season and in subsequent seasons (Buchholz, Ellsbury, maybe even Bowden). Their achelies heel will be injuries, but my sense is that they have a team with enough character and skill to battle through injuries and they should have a chip on their shoulder.

[Teddyballgame10]

Outfield: Extend Bay if he is open to it. Otherwise, watch the fun next off season as the Yankees spend 300% above value for all the players that they want while every other team goes through the worst economy since the great depression. As a financially sound team with a good gameplan, the Sox should be there to pick up the pieces and will probably be competitive.

 

 

If you mean let the Yanks sign all the A+ free agents and let the Sox get all the A free agents I love it. Let them overpay for all the big name A+ players and the Sox sign all the slightly lower tier players. The skill and talent gap is barley anything(someone has said this before) and as usual the Yankees will overpay for whoever the big name is and the Sox will get the next best thing at a much cheaper price. This, plus our superior farm system should help us dominate the AL. One flaw I can see is that the "A" players will never hit the market which leaves us dependant on our farm system, something I do not like considering the financial capability the Red Sox have.

[jacksonianmarch]

If you mean let the Yanks sign all the A+ free agents and let the Sox get all the A free agents I love it. Let them overpay for all the big name A+ players and the Sox sign all the slightly lower tier players. The skill and talent gap is barley anything(someone has said this before) and as usual the Yankees will overpay for whoever the big name is and the Sox will get the next best thing at a much cheaper price. This' date=' plus our superior farm system should help us dominate the AL. One flaw I can see is that the "A" players will never hit the market which leaves us dependant on our farm system, something I do not like considering the financial capability the Red Sox have.[/quote']

 

the talent gap between Teixeira and the rest of the FA class is barely anything? I think we got A+. In your ranking system, I think Manny is an A. Dunn is an A-. The Bradley's, the Burrell's, the Abreu's are all in the B+ range. What's Josh Bard?

 

I'd call CC A+ material, Burnett and Sheets A- material, the Lowe's, Pettitte's, Dempster's and such are in the B+ range. Where would you put injury prone and declining Brad Penny?

 

Call it what it is Teddyballgame. Every yr there are a few FAs that lead the pack in terms of performance. They are typically not just a little better than the rest, they are typically head and shoulders above the pack. Next yr, as I have shown in this post, the dropoff from Holliday and Bay to the rest is massive. I we fill both holes with those two players and you guys fill in with Dye or someone of his ilk, the difference will be massive.

[jacksonianmarch]

?

 

Besides, Tazawa is at least a year away. He's starting in AA this year, he's not a viable rotation option this year unless everyone gets hurt.

 

and nobody is truly sure what kind of stuff he has and how he'll take to the bigs. I've seen reports that he throws as hard as 97 mph consistently or that he starts out in the low 90s and by the end of the game, he's throwing mid 80s. I have also seen reports of plus offspeed stuff. And other reports where they call his stuff minus. Nobody is truly sure what kind of pitcher he is, and he is absolutely not ready right now for the majors since he isnt a Japanese veteran. He would have been a Japanese rook.

[Dipre]

the talent gap between Teixeira and the rest of the FA class is barely anything? I think we got A+. In your ranking system, I think Manny is an A. Dunn is an A-. The Bradley's, the Burrell's, the Abreu's are all in the B+ range. What's Josh Bard?

 

I'd call CC A+ material, Burnett and Sheets A- material, the Lowe's, Pettitte's, Dempster's and such are in the B+ range. Where would you put injury prone and declining Brad Penny?

 

Call it what it is Teddyballgame. Every yr there are a few FAs that lead the pack in terms of performance. They are typically not just a little better than the rest, they are typically head and shoulders above the pack. Next yr, as I have shown in this post, the dropoff from Holliday and Bay to the rest is massive. I we fill both holes with those two players and you guys fill in with Dye or someone of his ilk, the difference will be massive.

 

As usual, you miss the point and twist the poster's words around.

 

He's not talking about this FA class, in which you overpaid for all the top FAs, he's talking in general, year in, year out FA signings.

[BSN07]

Given that this is the Plan B thread, let's talk plan B.

 

I don't think there is much of one. That was fun, huh?

 

The Sox have two of the top 3 MVP finishers from last year. They have a very good top 3 pitching staff and some servicable #4 and #5 options. Their bullpen is solid, their defense is quite good, and they have a lineup that can compete with any lineup in baseball.

 

Catcher:

I don't think they are going to get either Teagarden or Salty, and I don't see them giving up much for Montero either. My guess is that they will not move Buchholz, Bowden, Masterson or Anderson as part of attaining a catcher. Their long term catching option may be a year or two down the road.

 

Presently, the Sox should put out a $5m x 2 year deal for Tek, and tell him (and Boras) they have until the end of the week to take it. Otherwise they will reduce their offer to $5m over two years and that's it. Then they should sign someone else, and platoon between Bard and whoever else they get. Have Red Sox nation get over it eventually. Maybe Kottaras, maybe Zaun, whoever. f*** it. Take it or leave it Tek, or enjoy playing in another city; allow your douchebag agent to field all the offers that you have coming in and go play for the Dodgers or Mets or even the Yankees.. whatever.

 

Pitching: This team is really relying on Clay Buchholz to have an effective season next year; his stuff is still tremendous and he has the stuff to be a top of the rotation starter. If he can pitch to 50% effectiveness that should add some wins to the club. I think Wakefield may be looking at retirement. Their signings and seeming lack of concern about having a Wake-ified catcher seems to indicate that he won't be a key part of the rotation. I could be totally wrong, or I could just be doing some wishful thinking.

 

Outfield: Extend Bay if he is open to it. Otherwise, watch the fun next off season as the Yankees spend 300% above value for all the players that they want while every other team goes through the worst economy since the great depression. As a financially sound team with a good gameplan, the Sox should be there to pick up the pieces and will probably be competitive.

 

Long term, try to get another in-his-prime pitcher under the radar, from a team that needs to do more rebuilding than they do competing. There aren't many options out there who might be good fits and big impacts. Check with SEA about what it would take to get Felix, talk to the Giants about Lincecum and Cain, talk to KC about Greinke. Beyond that I can't imagine pitchers who are either too volatile, too old, not good enough, or not on teams who are competing with the Red Sox.

 

Again, wishful thinking, but it's thinking outside of the box a bit.

 

Farm: Continue to bid on the best international free agents, sign all players they draft and don't be afraid to go over slot. It seems like their best way to maxamize their financial edge over other clubs without doing it in the FA pool.

 

Overall, I think this is a very good team with some pieces that hold a lot of promise and who should come to fruition this season and in subsequent seasons (Buchholz, Ellsbury, maybe even Bowden). Their achelies heel will be injuries, but my sense is that they have a team with enough character and skill to battle through injuries and they should have a chip on their shoulder.

 

I am really seeing eye to eye on this one with you Ex.

[BSN07]

Just throwing this out there. But before he was traded to the Yankees, Swisher seemed like an ideal fit for the Sox. Now that he might be available again, should the Sox try to find a 3rd team and bring him in?

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

If possible, yeah.

[a700hitter]

Just throwing this out there. But before he was traded to the Yankees' date=' Swisher seemed like an ideal fit for the Sox. Now that he might be available again, should the Sox try to find a 3rd team and bring him in?[/quote']He stinks.

[BSN07]

He stinks.

 

He be good for the 4th OF, backup 1B role.

[a700hitter]

He be good for the 4th OF' date=' backup 1B role.[/quote']I'd rather sign Kotsay than give up anyone for Swisher.

[BSN07]

I'd rather sign Kotsay than give up anyone for Swisher.

 

I'd bring back Kotsay as a 5th OF backup 1B only if they signed Baldelli.

 

 

The need someone capable of hitting RH of the bench.

 

 

Swisher can give you all that and only take up one roster spot.

[Dojji]

No Kotsay. JVE can do everything Kotsay can do and hit 20 HR's in Pawtucket. If it's Kotsay v. Van Every you have to go to JVE every time.

 

You might as well have Julio Lugo play first base -- at least then you get some speed with your no OBP and your no power.

[BoSox21]

Jeff Bailey is the best in-house option to backup 1B if you ask me. You don't necessarily need your 1B backup to have the ability to play the outfield

[Dojji]

I'd be inclined to go for Chris Carter if only because he bats lefthanded and both of our corner infielders are righthanded.

[example1]

I love it when conversation revolves around Jeff Bailey vs. Van Every vs. Chris Carter. That's some backup talk!!!

[BoSox21]

I don't mind Jeff Bailey as the backup 1B as long as they spend some f***ing money somewhere else

[redsoxrules]

I don't mind Jeff Bailey as the backup 1B as long as they spend some f***ing money somewhere else

 

not hapening

 

the Sox will open up the 2009 season with a payroll less than 100 MIL <_>

[Cocos Disciples]

I'd rather sign Kotsay than give up anyone for Swisher.

 

Swisher has a career .805 OPS as opposed to Kotsay's .751 (though the highest OPS he's posted since 2005 is .746). I would expect an improvement from Swisher's 2008, since his career high LD% produced a very fluky H%. However, Swisher is pretty bad everywhere in the field except 1B, where he's decent. Kotsay sucks in the field too, though.

 

The Yankees gave up Wilson Betemit, Jeff Marquez and Jhonny Nunez for Swisher and Kanekoa Texeira. Not exactly a king's ransom. I would definitely prefer Swish.

[a700hitter]

Swisher has a career .805 OPS as opposed to Kotsay's .751 (though the highest OPS he's posted since 2005 is .746). I would expect an improvement from Swisher's 2008, since his career high LD% produced a very fluky H%. However, Swisher is pretty bad everywhere in the field except 1B, where he's decent. Kotsay sucks in the field too, though.

 

The Yankees gave up Wilson Betemit, Jeff Marquez and Jhonny Nunez for Swisher and Kanekoa Texeira. Not exactly a king's ransom. I would definitely prefer Swish.

I don't think Kotsay is a bad OFer. I think he's pretty good.

[Cocos Disciples]

I don't think Kotsay is a bad OFer. I think he's pretty good.

 

He's not. Among regular center fielders, only Vernon Wells had a worse range factor than Kotsay in 2008

[example1]

not hapening

 

the Sox will open up the 2009 season with a payroll less than 100 MIL <_>

 

Why does anyone care how much money they spend? Spending money is not a linear thing--i.e., beyond a certain point there isn't a correlation between spending money and winning games.

 

This team has 3 everyday starting fielders who are earning either pre-arbitration or arbitration $$ (Lowrie, Ellsbury, Youkilis). They may have a 4th in catcher. They have one starting fielder who is making pre-arbitration signed-contract $$ (Pedroia). They will probably have at least one, if not two starting pitchers who are in that category (Lester, Buchholz). They have at least 4 relievers who are in that category: Masterson, Delcarmen, Ramirez, Papelbon--and maybe more depending on how Littleton and Gonzalez do in ST.

 

When your team is made up of such young talent it is hard to have a payroll as high as the 2004 or 2006 Red Sox did. It doesn't mean they are worse.

 

In total that is possibly 11 men on their 25 man roster who are likely to produce more wins than their cost should dictate and who are currently playing within an optimal contract.

 

The one fact in all of this is that FA's cost more money than pre-arbitration or arbitration players do. There is nothing, NOTHING, in that equation that talks about the quality of the player being signed.

 

I don't see areas for them to spend money without it being wasted. Should they go out and buy an expensive lefty reliever, or an expensive lefty starter and sit Jon Lester so they can spend money and make you feel good? If they could they would drop another 9m by getting rid of Lugo. Would that UPSET you, because their payroll would drop even more?

 

I don't see their payroll as some indication of how much they 'love' their fans, or how much they are willing to win. Every year for a few years now they have been able to add big league ready talent to the MLB club for pennies on the dollar. That should continue, given their drafting in recent years. Bowden, Bard and Anderson all appear ready to come up sometime in the next few seasons, as do players like Bailey. In a few years we will see what we have in Kalish, Reddick, Lin, Westmoreland, Middlebrooks, Pimentel, Kelly, etc.,

 

What is there to complain about? If this team has mutliple seasons under 90 wins I will join the "get expensive players now" bandwagon, but given the success of other teams who were extremely competitive for extended periods like ATL and ANA I see no reason to think it is going to happen anytime soon.

[BSN07]

not hapening

 

the Sox will open up the 2009 season with a payroll less than 100 MIL <_>

 

Pretty sure that's the teams right, if they so choose.