Cashman leaves Gom with nothing to bitch about

[jacksonianmarch]

He did EVERYTHING you wanted. You are hereby banned from saying anything negative about Cashman for the forseeable future.

 

He held onto the farm by not going after Johan

He signs a pitcher equal in talent, age and durability without having to give up prospects

He signs a pitcher who has all the talent in the world to be the #3, assuming he is healthy

He signs the best offensive player on the market, filling a huge offensive need.

He resigns Marte to keep him as the setup man to Mo

He trades a bag of dicks for Swisher, who is a very solid player, capable of OPSing >.850 at multiple positions.

And he very likely will resign Pettitte.

 

He has this team loaded from the rotation, to the pen and to the offense. He upgraded the D with Tex being added and if Gardner wins a job in CF, will upgrade there as well. Regardless, he took this team from 3rd place finish to best team in the majors. You no longer have anything to gripe about. AND THE BEST PART, none of the signees are older than 32.

[redsoxrules]

He did EVERYTHING you wanted. You are hereby banned from saying anything negative about Cashman for the forseeable future.

 

He held onto the farm by not going after Johan

He signs a pitcher equal in talent, age and durability without having to give up prospects

He signs a pitcher who has all the talent in the world to be the #3, assuming he is healthy

He signs the best offensive player on the market, filling a huge offensive need.

He resigns Marte to keep him as the setup man to Mo

He trades a bag of dicks for Swisher, who is a very solid player, capable of OPSing >.850 at multiple positions.

And he very likely will resign Pettitte.

 

He has this team loaded from the rotation, to the pen and to the offense. He upgraded the D with Tex being added and if Gardner wins a job in CF, will upgrade there as well. Regardless, he took this team from 3rd place finish to best team in the majors. You no longer have anything to gripe about. AND THE BEST PART, none of the signees are older than 32.

 

 

you can see in the future ?

[Cocos Disciples]

Yeah this is one of the few positives of the off-season.

[riverside sluggers]

Yea praise the Yanks didnt trade Phillip Hughes, Melky Cabrera and Ian Kennedy, who all be in Triple A for the forseeable future

[26 to 6]

He did EVERYTHING you wanted. You are hereby banned from saying anything negative about Cashman for the forseeable future.

 

He held onto the farm by not going after Johan

He signs a pitcher equal in talent, age and durability without having to give up prospects

He signs a pitcher who has all the talent in the world to be the #3, assuming he is healthy

He signs the best offensive player on the market, filling a huge offensive need.

He resigns Marte to keep him as the setup man to Mo

He trades a bag of dicks for Swisher, who is a very solid player, capable of OPSing >.850 at multiple positions.

And he very likely will resign Pettitte.

 

He has this team loaded from the rotation, to the pen and to the offense. He upgraded the D with Tex being added and if Gardner wins a job in CF, will upgrade there as well. Regardless, he took this team from 3rd place finish to best team in the majors. You no longer have anything to gripe about. AND THE BEST PART, none of the signees are older than 32.

I think we can still use another arm in that pen. I don't like Marte as the full-time setup guy, I like him better as a 7th inning/lefty specialist type. And we can't count on Veras and Bruney to be as solid as they've been. I would have to look at the list of available free agents to see who we could go out and sign, but I think the Yankees should reach out to Colorado about Huston Street. They would bite on Ian Kennedy (remember the proposed Kennedy for Tavares deal before Wily was non-tendered) and another prospect or something. We'd have to give up something, but it shouldn't be too steep a price. That's just a suggestion though, another solid arm and we're set for the season....unless we decide to go out and get Manny too, which would be even better

[26 to 6]

Here's a good article where Randy Levine defends the Yankees offseason spending thus far.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/25/sports/baseball/25yankees.html?_r=1

[riverside sluggers]

No offense, but of course the Yankees president will defend the signings

[26 to 6]

No offense' date=' but of course the Yankees president will defend the signings[/quote']

Obviously.

 

Did you even read the article though?

[Gom]

He did EVERYTHING you wanted. You are hereby banned from saying anything negative about Cashman for the forseeable future.

 

He held onto the farm by not going after Johan

He signs a pitcher equal in talent, age and durability without having to give up prospects

He signs a pitcher who has all the talent in the world to be the #3, assuming he is healthy

He signs the best offensive player on the market, filling a huge offensive need.

He resigns Marte to keep him as the setup man to Mo

He trades a bag of dicks for Swisher, who is a very solid player, capable of OPSing >.850 at multiple positions.

And he very likely will resign Pettitte.

 

He has this team loaded from the rotation, to the pen and to the offense. He upgraded the D with Tex being added and if Gardner wins a job in CF, will upgrade there as well. Regardless, he took this team from 3rd place finish to best team in the majors. You no longer have anything to gripe about. AND THE BEST PART, none of the signees are older than 32.

 

You are correct...to a point. He basically did everything I wanted him to do, the only difference is Tex over Manny, and although I like Tex more than Manny, even I didn't think they'd spend that much.

 

Now...do you defend what he did last year? Jacko, you tell us you're a smart guy, so why do you blindly follow this guy? What he did this off-season was easy. Signing a free agent when you have the biggest checkbook isn't all that difficult. The players he took were no-brainers.

 

Now...does this eliminate my scorn for him? Temporarily. My thing with Cashman is that I did not think he was good enough. Looking forward to next year, the free agent crop is nowhere near as good, and also, he's got more money coming off the books. He's got three years to come up with a replacement for Sabathia, just one more season to replace Pettitte.

 

He's got three years in my book. He's had the last two. That's enough to develop one front-line starter or starting position player.

 

My thing with Cashman is that I simply did not feel that he was the right man for the job. If, after 2011 the farm system still hasn't produced at least ONE starting player/pitcher, then he should be released.

 

So Jacko...explain to me a point. You favored not trading away prospects, but by signing type A free agents, they lose picks. Aren't those guys prospects as well?

 

I readily admit that he has had an incredibly productive off-season, and he's ok in my book, for the time being. My question for you is...why do you blindly support him?

[26 to 7]

He did EVERYTHING you wanted. You are hereby banned from saying anything negative about Cashman for the forseeable future.

 

He held onto the farm by not going after Johan

He signs a pitcher equal in talent, age and durability without having to give up prospects

He signs a pitcher who has all the talent in the world to be the #3, assuming he is healthy

He signs the best offensive player on the market, filling a huge offensive need.

He resigns Marte to keep him as the setup man to Mo

He trades a bag of dicks for Swisher, who is a very solid player, capable of OPSing >.850 at multiple positions.

And he very likely will resign Pettitte.

 

He has this team loaded from the rotation, to the pen and to the offense. He upgraded the D with Tex being added and if Gardner wins a job in CF, will upgrade there as well. Regardless, he took this team from 3rd place finish to best team in the majors. You no longer have anything to gripe about. AND THE BEST PART, none of the signees are older than 32.

 

 

To Make it worse I think he will sign Sheets or Manny.

[jacksonianmarch]

You are correct...to a point. He basically did everything I wanted him to do, the only difference is Tex over Manny, and although I like Tex more than Manny, even I didn't think they'd spend that much.

 

Now...do you defend what he did last year? Jacko, you tell us you're a smart guy, so why do you blindly follow this guy? What he did this off-season was easy. Signing a free agent when you have the biggest checkbook isn't all that difficult. The players he took were no-brainers.

 

I do defend what he did last offseason. Last offseason, he allowed the kids a chance to grow AND stay in this organization. The fact that Hughes and CC are on the same team should be evidence enough. I did not want to deal Hughes for Johan. I wanted BOTH Hughes and Johan. Now I have both Hughes and CC. I'll take it. That was really the only big thing last offseason. The O signees were awful and Carlos Silva was the best pitching signee. I think standing pat was the right thing to do both then and in retrospect. Our 08 season wasnt sunk by not getting Johan. It was sunk by losing many pitchers to the DL and by losing some key cogs in the lineup to season altering injuries.

 

 

Now...does this eliminate my scorn for him? Temporarily. My thing with Cashman is that I did not think he was good enough. Looking forward to next year, the free agent crop is nowhere near as good, and also, he's got more money coming off the books. He's got three years to come up with a replacement for Sabathia, just one more season to replace Pettitte.

 

Next yrs FA crop fits right into our needs. We'll still have the top 4 of CC, Wang, Burnett and Joba. And Hughes, Aceves and Kennedy should be ready for full time by then, so we shouldnt need pitching from the FA market. We also will have the IF all set as well. The only glaring needs would be in the OF and DH where only Swisher is under contract. Cue the ascension of AJax and the Free Agency of Matt Holliday and Jason Bay. Or the resigning of Johnny Damon and the signing of Holliday. I'd be all for that. That being said, THIS is the model we were trying to have. After 07, too many holes were opened on a team whose system was a bit too green to fill. After 09, we'll have one rotation slot and one OF slot that we will expect to fill with rookies. And thereon out, we should expect one pitcher and one position player to come from the farm. We should not rely on our rooks to fill more than one open spot on either side of the ball per yr. It just wont work

 

He's got three years in my book. He's had the last two. That's enough to develop one front-line starter or starting position player.

And if Joba comes up as the ace we all hope he will be, then he will fit that bill.

 

My thing with Cashman is that I simply did not feel that he was the right man for the job. If, after 2011 the farm system still hasn't produced at least ONE starting player/pitcher, then he should be released.

 

I echo that sentiment. If every single minor leaguer he drafted and signed cannot latch on by 2011, then I think he should be let go.

 

So Jacko...explain to me a point. You favored not trading away prospects, but by signing type A free agents, they lose picks. Aren't those guys prospects as well?

to a degree. But we are talking about dealing away former first rounders who have now ascended the ranks of the farm.

 

I readily admit that he has had an incredibly productive off-season, and he's ok in my book, for the time being. My question for you is...why do you blindly support him?

 

No, I dont. I am willing to allow our rather improved farm system some time to fill our needs when they arise. But if these guys implode then a change of pace is a good idea. That being said, it was Cash's idea to invest in the farm and it is a good model. I dont think another GM would have the gall to stand up to a Steinny and say that.

[Mr Crunchy]

Here ya go Gom,dont let them tell you that theres nothing to bitch about.

 

you want something to bitch about,check out the recent history of brian cashmans pitchers.

the season starts in april.

who gets dl'd 1st,wang sabby or burnett?

 

PITCHER YEARS EARNINGS AS YANK RECORD

Mike Mussina (2001-07) $109 Million 123-72, 3.87

Kei Igawa (2007-08) $46 Million 2-4, 6.62

Roger Clemens I (1999-03) $45.3 Million 77-36, 3.64

Carl Pavano (2005-08) $39.5 Million 9-8, 4.99

Randy Johnson (2005-06) $31.6 Million 34-19, 4.30

Kevin Brown (2004-05) $31.4 Million 14-13, 4.96

Roger Clemens II (2007) $18 Million 6-6, 4.18

Jaret Wright (2005-06) $13.32 Million 16-12, 4.98

Javier Vazquez (2004) $9 Million 14-10, 4.91

BULLPEN

Steve Karsay (2002-05) $21 million 6-4, 3.38

Kyle Farnsworth (2006-07) $17 million 6-9, 4.34, 28 HR

[Gom]

I have no issue with money Crunchy. I never have.

 

The thing is this...as a GM, from my perspective, the three things you need to do is to make trades, draft, and sign free agents.

 

Now...he's done fine with trades for the most part. Some hits, some misses, but overall, decent. His free agent signings have been poor before this off-season. His drafting has been probably one of the worst in baseball.

 

Considering he has the biggest payroll to play with, I decrease his effect on free agents. So...let's see. I give him all the credit for signing the best three players in the off-season, but he needs to go forward. Seeing how the two best FA OFs next year will be Holliday and Bay, I'm hoping that his pick, Austin Jackson makes the squad.

 

He bought himself some time. About three years.

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Obviously.

 

Did you even read the article though?

 

Here's a braoder article that puts the yankee payroll into perspective:

 

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/oracle/discussion/yankees_signed_teixeira/

[Gom]

I do defend what he did last offseason.

A 3rd place finish, a terrible evaluation of his players, and not signing two of their top three picks in the draft. Oh..that's right. He signed one of them.

Last offseason' date=' he allowed the kids a chance to grow AND stay in this organization.[/quote']

....and he didn't sell them when their value was at their highest. He could have had Santana for Hughes, he could have traded Kennedy for Fuentes. Those two moves alone would have most likely put us in the playoffs.

The fact that Hughes and CC are on the same team should be evidence enough.

Not in the same rotation.

I did not want to deal Hughes for Johan. I wanted BOTH Hughes and Johan. Now I have both Hughes and CC. I'll take it.

We lost a season for no reason.

That was really the only big thing last offseason. The O signees were awful and Carlos Silva was the best pitching signee. I think standing pat was the right thing to do both then and in retrospect. Our 08 season wasnt sunk by not getting Johan.

It is a GM's job to make sure injuries don't hurt the team. Johan pitched 234.1 IP last year, and was the Cy Young winner last year in my opinion, if not for the putrid Mets bullpen. That's 230+ IP of Johan instead of Ponson, Rasner, Kennedy, Hughes, et al. That alone was worth 7 or 8 games in the standings.

It was sunk by losing many pitchers to the DL and by losing some key cogs in the lineup to season altering injuries.

He built the team.

Next yrs FA crop fits right into our needs. We'll still have the top 4 of CC, Wang, Burnett and Joba. And Hughes, Aceves and Kennedy should be ready for full time by then, so we shouldnt need pitching from the FA market. We also will have the IF all set as well. The only glaring needs would be in the OF and DH where only Swisher is under contract. Cue the ascension of AJax and the Free Agency of Matt Holliday and Jason Bay. Or the resigning of Johnny Damon and the signing of Holliday. I'd be all for that. That being said, THIS is the model we were trying to have.

I am not convinced Holliday is an elite hitter. His splits away from Coors are pedestrian, and let's see how he does in the AL with the A's. I would be surprised if Holliday isn't traded at the deadline, knowing Beane's penchant for selling at the deadline. The team that gets him will probably not make the deal unless he signs for an extension. I'd say there's a 50/50 shot he never sees free agency.

After 07, too many holes were opened on a team whose system was a bit too green to fill. After 09, we'll have one rotation slot and one OF slot that we will expect to fill with rookies. And thereon out, we should expect one pitcher and one position player to come from the farm. We should not rely on our rooks to fill more than one open spot on either side of the ball per yr. It just wont work

WTF? Isn't this what I've been saying all along? The minors should supplement the major league staff...be it by call ups or trades? What Cashman tried to do was depend on THREE rookies in the rotation. This was so blatantly obvious that it would fail, I'm surprised he kept his job.

 

Now...I'll give him credit, but what he did took minimal skill this off-season. The only move that took some skill was Swisher. Why? I didn't see it. If I can see it, as a layman baseball fan, then it takes zero skill. Go back and look at my post about what the Yankees should do. I am nearly dead on with my predictions and salaries. Either I'm a genius, or it's an obvious call. I'll go with the obvious call, even though I am a genius.

 

He miscalculated nearly everything last year and it blew up in his face, and sadly, didn't cost him his job. If anyone was the new GM, they would have done the exact same thing, throw millions of dollars at big time free agents, get the Yankees back to the post-season, and take all the credit, while Cashman fades into obscurity. He knew this [about the only call he got right last year] and decided to stay on board after Hank pussied out and didn't fire him.

 

I don't believe in the hype that you readily buy into. Let me give you an example. Here's a scouts report on the AFL for the Yankees, from Rotoworld.

 

On Phil Hughes:

Penciling Hughes into the 2008 rotation seemed like the right call for the Yankees, but he failed to build on his modest success from his rookie season, going 0-4 with a 9.00 ERA in six starts before being placed on the DL with a stress fracture in his rib cage. It was 2 ? months before he got back on the mound, and he didn't rejoin the Yankees until Sept. 13. Upon returning, he allowed three runs in 12 innings over two starts. The AFL also provided encouraging results, even if he was lucky enough to face the circuit's two worst offenses in five of his six starts. He went 2-0 with a 3.00 ERA and 38 strikeouts in 30 innings. Hughes has struggled to consistently show the velocity that once made him the game's No. 1 pitching prospect. He's still a very good bet to turn into a reliable major league starter, but he currently looks like a No. 3 with an outside chance of becoming a No. 2. The Yankees won't leave a spot open for him next year, so he'll head to Triple-A unless an injury strikes. With his price tag well down, he's worth a look in the hope that he'll make 20 starts or so.

So he had average stats pitching against the worst teams in the AFL, and is not the fireballer or ace he was touted. A #3 pitcher for most teams would be lucky to crack the top five in New York. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't even achieve that status. If he doesn't come with that 95 MPH fastball that he was advertised with and is more like 90-92, he's going to be best remembered as the guy who wasn't traded for Santana...forever.

 

Austin Jackson:

Jackson was better at basketball than baseball coming out of high school, but after two years of modest production, he busted out following a midseason promotion to the FSL in 2007. 2008 was more of a consolidation year. His numbers didn't stand out, but they were still very good for a 21-year-old in Double-A. Unfortunately, he did falter in the AFL, finishing at .246 with 30 strikeouts in 28 games. What slim chance there was of the Yankees giving him a chance to compete for a starting job in 2009 probably died with his struggles there. Jackson needs the year in Triple-A anyway. Comparisons to Bernie Williams are easy. Besides the obvious similarities, both are all-around players without one real standout skill. Jackson is highly unlikely to match the eight Hall of Fame-quality seasons that Williams had in his prime, but he could turn into a well above average regular. Ideally, the Yankees wouldn't call on him before September.

He had a .679 OPS in the AFL. Now, I wouldn't call him a bust, but he's nowhere near as close as you think. From what we've seen so far, to pencil him in as our CF in 2010 is pure folly.

Juan Miranda:

The Yankees won a modest bidding war for Miranda two years ago, signing the Cuban defector to a $2 million deal, but nothing they've done since suggests he's in their plans. He did show a fair amount of ability while hitting .332/.439/.534 against righties in Triple-A last season, earning himself a September callup. However, his name rarely came up when the subject turned to potential replacements for Jason Giambi. Miranda hasn't helped his case with his glovework at first base, and it's doubtful that he'll ever hit lefties well enough to play regularly in the majors. Still, if his listed age is correct and he's truly 25, then he should have a few years as a platoon guy ahead of him. His best hope of getting a shot with the Yankees would be a Hideki Matsui injury or a prolonged slump from Nick Swisher.

If this guy is 25, then Jessica Biel is sitting on my lap while I'm typing this. It looks like we may have a Shelly Duncan clone, but just from the other side of the plate.

 

Humberto Sanchez:

Sanchez, the most talented of the three righties the Yankees picked up from the Tigers for Gary Sheffield after 2006, had a tough time making it back from April 2007 Tommy John surgery, though he did pitch in the majors at the very end of the year. After two innings with the Yankees, he went to the AFL and promptly gave up 21 hits and walked 11 in 12 innings. A healthy Sanchez can throw in the mid-90s and strike batters out with a plus slider, but command has always been an issue. Since the Yankees have loaded up with starting pitching depth, Sanchez is probably destined to become a short reliever if he remains with the team. For now, though, getting him innings has to the priority, and that should probably happen in the rotation in Double- or Triple-A. Perhaps he'll help the Bombers in the second half.

Doesn't sound like much here.

 

Now...this is one scout's assessment. I understand this. However, Cashman has to do a better job in drafting/trading/evaluating his players. Throwing money at players is one way to do things, but if that's all he's good at...why not get someone who can also sign and develop them?

 

The way I see it, this off-season bought him some time and erased a lot of his mistakes. If we're back in the same boat in 3 years, he's got to go.

 

I think the Red Sox botched things with Tex, but it would be a nice off-season if we could do nothing like the Sox have and still be ok. The Red Sox WANTED to do something, but we NEEDED to.

 

Now...you act like the giddy child at Christmas. Settle down. Expecting 1 or 2 impact players per season from the minors is unreasonable. 1 impact player every 2 or 3 years is more likely.

And if Joba comes up as the ace we all hope he will be, then he will fit that bill.

I have this discussion with Yankee fans a lot. The guy has dynamite stuff. No question. However, his temperment and maturity [nearly killing Youkilis and his DWI incident] when coupled with his injury history, make him a very big question mark for this team. Be careful of counting on too much from this guy. He's much more likely to throw 90 innings than 200.

I echo that sentiment. If every single minor leaguer he drafted and signed cannot latch on by 2011, then I think he should be let go.

He should have been gone already. No more excuses. He runs the show. You don't blame the secretary of state, you blame the president. Same thing here. All things go through him before they go to ownership. So the buck stops with him. Fair or not, that's the way it goes.

 

Look...I'd love to see the Yankees sign some serious talent, develop another wave like we had in the 90s or like the Sox are enjoying now. We're in agreement that if he doesn't develop a few players in the next two to three years, it's time for the Yankees to move in a different direction.

I am willing to allow our rather improved farm system some time to fill our needs when they arise. But if these guys implode then a change of pace is a good idea. That being said' date=' it was Cash's idea to invest in the farm and it is a good model. I dont think another GM would have the gall to stand up to a Steinny and say that.[/quote']

Cashman followed the blue print Stick Michaels had laid out. It was not a novel concept by any means...it's been done since the dawn of baseball. However, with this ownership group, it was the FIRST time that the Yankees had operated this way. Cashman is the second person to try it. Give credit where it's due.

[jacksonianmarch]

you are an idiot

[Gom]

you are an idiot

 

That's the Jacko that doesn't know s*** about baseball! Welcome back! I thought you'd actually grown a brain!

[Teddyballgame10]

Gom is right anyone can do what Cashman did this off-season. He was given a blank check, all he needed to do was pick up the phone. Cashman has done nothing that takes talent or creativity. You are praising him for trading to get Swisher? Really Nick Swisher is the key to 2009? Jackson is pleased that he didnt trade away the farm system for Santanna but honestly who did the Mets give up to get Santana? That was a brilliant trade, I dont know why but Cashman couldnt find away to keep their top prospects out of the deal and the Mets did. All Cashman does is write checks and prays they work out for the best. He could never manage a team outside of NY.

[Gom]

It's ok Teddy. Jacko has been shown to be nothing but the most clueless poster in the history of Talksox. Over 13,000 posts, and we're still looking for the first good one.

[Dipre]

It's ok Teddy. Jacko has been shown to be nothing but the most clueless poster in the history of Talksox. Over 13' date='000 posts, and we're still looking for the first good one.[/quote']

 

That's not true.

 

He has like 5 good ones.

[Gom]

I stand corrected.

 

According to Diaper, Jacko's rate of good, meaningful insightful posts is calculated to be:

 

0.00038%, or 1 meaningful post ever 2608 posts.

[Dipre]

I stand corrected.

 

According to Diaper, Jacko's rate of good, meaningful insightful posts is calculated to be:

 

0.00038%, or 1 meaningful post ever 2608 posts.

 

Actually, i did the math.

 

I simply didn't post it here because it'd make me sound like a jerk and trying to stir up s***, fortunately Get Off Me Plz My Ass Hurts Already is a certified jerk and s***-starter and fixed that little problem for me.

[Gom]

Actually, i did the math.

 

I simply didn't post it here because it'd make me sound like a jerk and trying to stir up s***, fortunately Get Off Me Plz My Ass Hurts Already is a certified jerk and s***-starter and fixed that little problem for me.

 

Is your bad attitude towards me due to my new job at INS?

[Cocos Disciples]

lol I did.

[Dipre]

Is your bad attitude towards me due to my new job at INS?

 

Nah, it's because i was buying a baconator the other day, and this really bitchy dude was cooking, and since he was a real *******, it thought "Damn, this has GOT to be GOM", the burguer wasn't well done, and the bacon was over-cooked, so until you learn to prepare a decent baconator at your workplace, there will always be bad blood between us, sir.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

It is so tempting to make an Arab joke right now, but I'll refrain, lest I look like BOY.

[Dipre]

It is so tempting to make an Arab joke right now' date=' but I'll refrain, lest I look like BOY.[/quote']

 

Oh by all means, make your joke, we already know (think) you're not BOY.

[Jacoby_Ellsbury]

Oh by all means' date=' make your joke, we already know (think) you're not BOY.[/quote']

Well Gom is Arab-American, so...

[Dipre]

Well Gom is Arab-American' date=' so...[/quote']

 

Then refrain, or he will hunt you until either of you die, or it's the end of the internets.

[jacksonianmarch]

That's the Jacko that doesn't know s*** about baseball! Welcome back! I thought you'd actually grown a brain!

 

No, I had to go to work. You know, the place where smart people go to make good money making informed, educated decisions. I'll destroy your post in a few seconds. Bear with me