The called 3rd strike to Lowell

[TheKilo]

May have been the worst strike call I've ever seen.

 

Let me preface this by saying the Sox did not lose that game as a result of that call, but it speaks to the lack of accountability that these umpires have. How one can get away with a call that atrocious is beyond me.

 

Mariano Rivera is a great pitcher...there's no need to give him a 36 inch wide strike zone:

 

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n85/JnaiJnai/9thblowncall.png

[BoSox21]

I agree it was absolutely horrible but as Mo kept going away, away, away with the cutter and Lowell kept fighting them off, I told myself as soon as he comes inside with the cutter, he's gonna get the call

 

It's a shame because he only got the call because his name is Mariano Rivera

[TheKilo]

For Gom:

 

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/pfx/location.php?xml=http://gd2.mlb.com/components/game/mlb/year_2008/month_07/day_25/gid_2008_07_25_nyamlb_bosmlb_1//pbp/pitchers/434668.xml&innings=yyyyyyyyy&s_type=1&sp_type=1&h_size=700&v_size=500

 

MDC v. Arod

 

I don't see how you can think the called 3rd strikes are in any way similar. We're talking a good 4 inch difference.

[schillingouttheks]

Where did you get these? They're pretty cool.

 

EDIT: Wow, I must be blind.

[TheKilo]

http://www.brooksbaseball.net/

 

PitchFX tool.

[schillingouttheks]

I was instantly intimidated by not only the language he uses, but the fancy graphs that I didn't even know existed. This guy knows his s***.

[yeszir]

I was instantly intimidated by not only the language he uses' date=' but the fancy graphs that I didn't even know existed. This guy knows his s***.[/quote']

 

Fancy language and graphs are often a sign that someone doesn't know their s*** and is trying to cover it up.

 

Not the case here, but worth noting.

[Gom]

Guys, nobody calls a perfect strike zone. Every umpire has his own zone.

[example1]

May have been the worst strike call I've ever seen.

 

Let me preface this by saying the Sox did not lose that game as a result of that call, but it speaks to the lack of accountability that these umpires have. How one can get away with a call that atrocious is beyond me.

 

Mariano Rivera is a great pitcher...there's no need to give him a 36 inch wide strike zone:

 

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n85/JnaiJnai/9thblowncall.png

 

Add to that the fact that the Sox are an offense built on an ungodly command of the strike-zone and you put them at a real disadvantage.

 

I'm sure I'm not the only one who was really glad the umps in the playoffs didn't call "pretty pitches" for strikes, but actually stuck with the zone as it is supposed to be (for the most part). Every inch should count.

[BoSox21]

Guys' date=' nobody calls a perfect strike zone. Every umpire has his own zone.[/quote']

 

There's a difference between not calling a perfect strike zone and what that call was. That was just embarassing

[Gom]

Agreed. Not like you guys were going to beat Rivera, but nice of you to think so.

[yeszir]

Agreed. Not like you guys were going to beat Rivera' date=' but nice of you to think so.[/quote']

 

It's happened before

http://www.baseball-reference.com/boxes/BOS/BOS200410170.shtml

[ORS]

Guys' date=' nobody calls a perfect strike zone. Every umpire has his own zone.[/quote']

So you will allow that they are indeed subjective in their interpretation of the strikezone, but you won't permit the possibility that their subjectiveness extends to individual players?

 

Can't have it both ways. If you concede subjectivity is part of the applied strikezone, you must also concede it possible that subjectivity could exist in the strikezone for specific pitchers.

[yeszir]

This stuff happened to Pedro during his entire career in Boston. It happens for all dominant pitchers, and is essentially a fact. I don't see how you can deny it.

[Gom]

Of course. It's part of the game. Haven't you heard of announcers say "They aren't going to give a rookie that pitch"?

 

It happens in every single sport every single day [mostly, excpet tennis I think]. Jordan palmed the ball. Ewing travelled. Maddux gets a 21 inch strike zone. If Bonds [steroid era] took a pitch, it was a ball. Holding on Odgen? No way.

 

It happens all the time behind the plate. Clemens had a book on umpires, knowing which umpires called what kind of pitches strikes, etc.

[yeszir]

Haha, so what are we arguing about then?

[example1]

I actually thought the ump was just bad that game on both sides. I was fortunate enough to watch the game with my father, and both of us were complaining about the ump very early in the game. We even complained when the Yankees got screwed, because it just hurts the quality of the game between two teams with such plate patience.

[Gom]

The ump was consistent. He had a very wide strike zone, but it was consistent. I think he was a better ump than the one for game two, when he squeezed both pitchers and then expanded the strike zone as the game went on. Cousins, wasn't it?

[TheKilo]

Gom - that pitch was 18 inches from the center of home plate. Approx. 7-9 off the inside corner.

 

In no way shape or form is that defensible.

[ORS]

Of course. It's part of the game. Haven't you heard of announcers say "They aren't going to give a rookie that pitch"?

 

It happens in every single sport every single day [mostly, excpet tennis I think]. Jordan palmed the ball. Ewing travelled. Maddux gets a 21 inch strike zone. If Bonds [steroid era] took a pitch, it was a ball. Holding on Odgen? No way.

 

It happens all the time behind the plate. Clemens had a book on umpires, knowing which umpires called what kind of pitches strikes, etc.

Of course I'm familiar with all of those things. What's remarkable is that while acknowledging this practice exists, you still maintain it didn't occur in the situation that is the topic of this thread, despite graphical data, taken from the MLB website, that confirms the accusation that it did.

 

Furthermore, the real problem that I have with this practice is the competitive imbalance it brings to the game. In additon to the advantage of larger revenues for player acquisitions, big market clubs will benefit from this as they are the most veteran heavy (at least, star veteran heavy), none moreso than the NYY.

[BoSox21]

I think its all more of a subconscious thing anyway. kinda like how cops will pull over a red sports car going 10 mph over the speed limit but won't pull over a minivan going 15 mph over the speed limit

[Soxfan1]

Agreed. Not like you guys were going to beat Rivera' date=' but nice of you to think so.[/quote']

 

Bill Mueller says hi.

[BoSox21]

Agreed. Not like you guys were going to beat Rivera' date=' but nice of you to think so.[/quote']

 

he's allowed 12 ER in 33 IP against the Sox since the '04 playoffs so don't even talk like he's been lights out against us

[Beaneater]

Sometimes I hear people saying, "Of course we know that umpiring is subjective to some extent. But that's what adds the precious human element to baseball!" I think that's rot. The human element in baseball should be limited to whether or not Lester can just catch the bottom of the strike zone with a diving curve, or whether or not Ortiz can get enough on that outside pitch to make it a double off the wall rather than a routine fly. If they could replace umps with robots (or, more prosaically, cameras) that got the calls right every time, I'd be all for it. That would let the real human element, that of the players, shine through.

[ORS]

Sometimes I hear people saying' date=' "Of course we know that umpiring is subjective to some extent. But that's what adds the precious human element to baseball!" I think that's rot. The [i']human[/i] element in baseball should be limited to whether or not Lester can just catch the bottom of the strike zone with a diving curve, or whether or not Ortiz can get enough on that outside pitch to make it a double off the wall rather than a routine fly. If they could replace umps with robots (or, more prosaically, cameras) that got the calls right every time, I'd be all for it. That would let the real human element, that of the players, shine through.

Well said, and I'll add on. The players are the stars. They are who we pay and tune in to see. Yet, I invariably get the sense that the other humans involved fall victim to their human nature and want to be part of the show. You see it all the time, like it's scripted. The bases are loaded with 2 outs for the home team pitcher. The game is close and late. The fans are on their feet and making noise. A pitch comes in, it's not really a strike, it's like a borderline call just to get it to borderline, but the monkey with the gray pants, black shirt and mask on can't contain himself. He launches into his patented third called strike schtick a la Lt Frank Dreben (aka Enrico Palazzo). Happens all the time.

 

I have no problem removing that part of the "show".