Crisp and Ellsbury

[SCM33]

If there was any doubt as to whether or not you were an idiot, this post should be exhibit A. Crisp is making millions of dollars to be a fourth outfielder right now. Have you heard any rumblings that he isn't happy? Aside from the last three nights, he's been in a platoon situation.

 

As for JD Drew, its people like you who will never give him a fair shake in this town. You realize the guy played in 140 games last year and 146 the year before?

 

Ahhhh, yeah actually....like I said, in ST he hinted he wouldnt accept a reserve role.......so I dont know what you were getting at.

 

The JD Drew comment was only a joke, not to be taken serious....so I dont understand the attack. I actually like Drew very much, and have never made comments in a serious sense otherwise, so its really unfair to name me as "people like you".

 

Why does it seem that on this board, instead of being argumentative back and forth.....people resort to personal attacks and name calling? Why can't someone just put in there opinion without being called an idiot? I said nothing to attack him as a player or person, just simply said that he already hinted that he wouldnt accept such a role, and I cannot blame him, I also have never attacked you or your posts in any sort of fashion....why does that warrant you calling me an idiot and labeling my post as exhibit A?

[SCM33]

I think that Theo knows Coco Crisp's true value to either Boston or any other MLB team' date=' and that Theo won't let Coco go for less than that very high value.[/quote']

 

That, or he will wait til he gets what he wants....a desperate team willing to overpay for him. Theo is in a position to bargain. He will wait until a team blows him away, til then hes content with the situation he has. There is no glaring need right now to go crazy, so he will wait for the right time and offer.

 

EDIT: we were in agreement, there wasnt anything to dispute. My point was that no team wanted him......and you said that he wanted value in return, and I agree.....if nobody gives him what he wants, he has the luxury of having two good players in CF, regardless of what other teams thought of Crisps value.

[ksushi]

Theo is in a great position to sit back, benefit from the OF depth for now, and make someone pay through the nose when the races become clearer, and some team needs a CFer or a spark in the lineup.

 

Side note: I've kind of noticed peoples tendency to go personal in a baseball discussion, too. It sucks, but it won't change unless people point it out. Good looking out. At the end of the day, we all have lives and deal with our own personal business outside of talksox, but we come here to talk baseball, but it seems like sometimes people don't even enjoy it and personal attacks break out. Not that we all aren't guilty of letting frustration get the best of us sometimes, but man, it seems like it happens too much here lately.

[BSN07]

I agree, Theo should wait until he gets an extremeley good offer for Coco. If Coco becomes a problem in the clubhouse, then thats another story.

[BoSox21]

Coco becoming a clubhouse problem doesn't do any favors for him going to a better situation anyway...but I hope he doesn't pull a Jay Payton

[Mr Crunchy]

perhaps if tito played jay payton rather than trot nixon that summer?

well we got chad bradford in return

coco is giving me the impression that he cant be counted on due to his frail body

[BSN07]

The Red Sox apparently wouldn't mind shipping Coco Crisp to the Cubs for Sean Gallagher and another prospect. The Sox might hope Crisp is the Cubs' backup plan to Roberts.

 

Via Peter Gammons.

 

Doesn't sound too bad to me. I don't know that much about Gallagher, but I have heard a few good things. I'd take him + a C prospect or something.

[Jayhawk Bill]

[Coco Crisp for Sean Gallagher] Doesn't sound too bad to me. I don't know that much about Gallagher' date=' but I have heard a few good things. I'd take him + a C prospect or something.[/quote']

 

Crisp for Gallagher is a fair deal, IMHO, and I've been shooting down proposed Coco Crisp deals right and left. Gallagher is riskier, but he projects as an MLB starting pitcher, he gets MLB minimum for three years, and he's only 22. Crisp is a surefire MLB-average starting CF, heavy on the defense, but he costs several million dollars a year. The Cubs need a CF right now...the Red Sox need pitching depth for half a decade...pull the trigger.

[ORS]

His performance in the minors reveals him to be a right-handed Jon Lester. Meh.

 

Anyone got a scouting report on him?

[Jayhawk Bill]

His performance in the minors reveals him to be a right-handed Jon Lester. Meh.

 

Anyone got a scouting report on him?

 

Year In Review (2007): The polished right-hander continued to succeed at the upper levels of the minors, but struggled mightily in his big-league debut.

The Good: Gallagher is solid across the board, with a low-90s fastball, looping curve, and deceptive changeup all rating as average to slightly above, as does his command and control. He's aggressive on the mound, goes after hitters, and shows confidence in all his offerings.

The Bad: Gallagher is a bit short and thickly built, offering little in terms of remaining projection. Nerves got the better of him in his pro debut, as he often found himself behind in the count and lacking that one dominant offering to fight back.

Perfect World Projection: A mid-rotation innings-eater.

Timetable: Gallagher's excellent showing in the Arizona Fall League gives him a leg up in spring training as he competes for an Opening Day big-league job.

 

In 2008:

 

ERA: 1.93

BAA: .188

GO/AO: 1.76

 

And, FWIW:

 

Birthplace: Boston, MA

[BSN07]

In 2008:

 

ERA: 1.93

BAA: .188

GO/AO: 1.76

 

And, FWIW:

 

Birthplace: Boston, MA

 

Not too bad of a review. I'd take him.

 

I know the Sox have already got some pitching prospects, but stock pilling them makes it easier to use in a trade that nets you something you really want( Big time C prospect maybe(Salty preferably).

[ORS]

By his scouting report, he sounds a lot like Michael Bowden, who also lacks a put away pitch. I think this year is Bowden's make it or break it year as a serious prospect. I'm not sure Crisp wouldn't have more value to the team as the 4th OF with two OFs, Drew and Manny, who need regular rest and are good injury candidates. That said, I do like the notion of flipping him for someone else that fills more of a need. Texas is short on pitching prospects, so maybe Gallagher, or Bowden himself, could help pry Saltalamacchia from the Rangers.

[RockMySox46]

I've said that ever since Jacoby came up from Pawtucket! lol.

 

Coco needs to go. Jacoby is much better, and he has so much more to offer than Coco!

[CrespoBlows]

I've said that ever since Jacoby came up from Pawtucket! lol.

 

Coco needs to go. Jacoby is much better, and he has so much more to offer than Coco!

 

Yeah, but Coco is settling in nicely as the 4th OF.

 

Until we get a good offer for Crisp, I don't see anything wrong keeping him in that role. He and a pitching prospect could fill a hole at the trade deadline.

[jacksonianmarch]

Yeah, but Moss is also proving he can be a very good 4th OFer and has the added bonus of backing up 1b. Plus he is MLB minimum while Coco is 4mil. It is a dilemma for the sox, though. Drew and Manny are injury prone and Ellsbury is in his first full yr. But if they wait long enough, Crisp might revert to 07 form and not have much trade value. Right now, a team like SD would be tempted to make an offer since their OF is ancient and bad.

[Mr Crunchy]

with jd drew's oft injured??? it doesnt make sense to dump him for salary reasons but the guys who have come up like moss have performed well.

jd drew has played 163 games as a red sox player and is hitting 270 over that span with no power to speak of.

that is putrid considering hes hitting behind the best 3/4 combo in 75 years and arguably the teams mvp last year in mike lowell.

the idea that people arent giving jd drew a chance to blossom is f***ing nonsense as this guy is making 14M per and has been around long enuff to know whats expected of him.

who does he think he is missing games with ass aches and ******** strains while sharing the same locker room as curt schilling and jon lester?

[Jayhawk Bill]

with jd drew's oft injured??? it doesnt make sense to dump him for salary reasons but the guys who have come up like moss have performed well.

jd drew has played 163 games as a red sox player and is hitting 270 over that span with no power to speak of.

that is putrid considering hes hitting behind the best 3/4 combo in 75 years and arguably the teams mvp last year in mike lowell.

the idea that people arent giving jd drew a chance to blossom is f***ing nonsense as this guy is making 14M per and has been around long enuff to know whats expected of him.

who does he think he is missing games with ass aches and ******** strains while sharing the same locker room as curt schilling and jon lester?

 

Mr. Crunchy, normally I agree with your wise counsel, but here I take a different perspective.

 

JD Drew sucked last year because of two bad months. Through the worst month, May, he was playing injured. Drew can't play well while injured; I don't know the reason, I just know that he's been notorious for missing time through his career, and that when he tried to play injured last year he was terrible.

 

I want the high-OBP JD Drew we get when he plays healthy. Thus far I've been impressed with Ellsbury and Moss in right field, so even with Moss out for over a month we still have a capable right fielder in Drew's absence. I'd rather see JD Drew honest about his injuries, and Terry Francona cautious about playing him injured, than see a repeat of last May.

[Mr Crunchy]

i dunno sir

i find this guy to be like one of those track/football wideouts.

reminds me an awful lot of willie gault and terry glenn,guys who are potential superstars who just cant get over the hump of playing thru pain as opposed to playing thru injury.

i feel his entire career has been one of selfishness and lack of character from the time he spurned the phillies to opting out of his dodger contract.

 

how do you feel about possible collusion in the dice k and jd drew contracts?

it behooves me how the sox would pay this guy more than david ortiz and josh beckett unless they had something else in the fire like getting the best free agent pitcher on the market last year in matsusaka for essentially short money(9-10M per?)...

[Jayhawk Bill]

i dunno sir

 

...

 

how do you feel about possible collusion in the dice k and jd drew contracts?

it behooves me how the sox would pay this guy more than david ortiz and josh beckett unless they had something else in the fire like getting the best free agent pitcher on the market last year in matsusaka for essentially short money(9-10M per?)...

 

First, I personally believe that the Red Sox have "an understanding" with Boras...I think that the JD Drew deal was essentially made after the 2004 season, and that's why his contract was structured as it was with LA. I think that the Matsuzaka deal was founded in the goodwill extant between Boston and Boras as well.

 

Collusion, though? Collusion is such a strong word...

[SCM33]

with jd drew's oft injured??? it doesnt make sense to dump him for salary reasons but the guys who have come up like moss have performed well.

jd drew has played 163 games as a red sox player and is hitting 270 over that span with no power to speak of.

that is putrid considering hes hitting behind the best 3/4 combo in 75 years and arguably the teams mvp last year in mike lowell.

the idea that people arent giving jd drew a chance to blossom is f***ing nonsense as this guy is making 14M per and has been around long enuff to know whats expected of him.

who does he think he is missing games with ass aches and ******** strains while sharing the same locker room as curt schilling and jon lester?

 

 

I think you are sellign Drew extremely short. Over the past two seasons, hes averaging 143 games....thats pretty good.

 

With his 3 HR so far, I think hes on pace for about 12-15 HR. While thats not the 31 that he hit in 2004, I wouldnt say he has no power to speak of.

 

His average could be an effect of the league change, but its relaly not a uge difference. Hes a .284 career hitter, hes around .270 here, not a drastic difference.

 

His OB% is .382, an excellent number, meaning that he wears out pitchers like its his job. Hes at .390 for his career.

 

He plays very good RF defense.

 

 

Listen, we are never going to get the value of 14M dollars per year. Its time for everyone to accept it. You cant blame JD for signing a contract that was way above his talent level....anyone of us would take a job somewhere that offered the most money....especially if that job location is considered to be one of the most popular and carries such a reputation. He played the game, and got paid.......dont blame him for it. What we got was a good player. What we got was an above average player.

 

We got someone who is probably around this:

.275

12-15HR

60-75RBI

.375-.390 OB%

 

Worth 14 million dollars? No, but its not my money, and he was better than the incumbent player at the time, and better than a lot of other players who were/are available to play RF in Fenway.

[YAZMAN]

Yeah' date=' but Moss is also proving he can be a very good 4th OFer and has the added bonus of backing up 1b. Plus he is MLB minimum while Coco is 4mil. It is a dilemma for the sox, though. Drew and Manny are injury prone and Ellsbury is in his first full yr. But if they wait long enough, Crisp might revert to 07 form and not have much trade value. Right now, a team like SD would be tempted to make an offer since their OF is ancient and bad.[/quote']

 

Moss can back up, but he's not the guy you want out there when you consider the Sox situation. Manny likes his time off, and Drew can benefit from it as well. Both spent time on the DL last year. Papi is nursing a sore knee and also can benefit from regular rest right now. I was at Fenway yesterday and can tell you first hand that having Ellsbury and Crisp in the game at the same time is phenomenal defensively as well as offensively on the basepaths.

 

The Sox should keep Crisp and benefit from all the added possibilities and extra dimensions he gives the team right now. We currently don't need to trade him, and are better off with him than we would be with what we could get for him.

 

Fortunately for us, we haven't had 2 rookies crap out on the hill. Now, should the pitching situation change, if Schilling and Colon should both bust and we wind up short on arms, then the FO could consider a move. By then, Crisp's value would be greater in a trade to a contending team that needs to make a move for a quality outfielder. He's simply not the liability at the plate people like to villianize him as, and he's playing his ass off right now to maximize his P.T.

 

We currently have 4 starting outfielders, and the entire roster is benefitting from it. Crisp will not revert to '07 unless he does something like injures his thumb again. It has always been my contention that the thumb injury killed him at the plate and affected him much worse than he'd ever let on to.

[CrespoBlows]

I think you are sellign Drew extremely short. Over the past two seasons, hes averaging 143 games....thats pretty good.

 

With his 3 HR so far, I think hes on pace for about 12-15 HR. While thats not the 31 that he hit in 2004, I wouldnt say he has no power to speak of.

 

His average could be an effect of the league change, but its relaly not a uge difference. Hes a .284 career hitter, hes around .270 here, not a drastic difference.

 

His OB% is .382, an excellent number, meaning that he wears out pitchers like its his job. Hes at .390 for his career.

 

He plays very good RF defense.

 

 

Listen, we are never going to get the value of 14M dollars per year. Its time for everyone to accept it. You cant blame JD for signing a contract that was way above his talent level....anyone of us would take a job somewhere that offered the most money....especially if that job location is considered to be one of the most popular and carries such a reputation. He played the game, and got paid.......dont blame him for it. What we got was a good player. What we got was an above average player.

 

We got someone who is probably around this:

.275

12-15HR

60-75RBI

.375-.390 OB%

 

Worth 14 million dollars? No, but its not my money, and he was better than the incumbent player at the time, and better than a lot of other players who were/are available to play RF in Fenway.

 

I think the deep power alley in right-center are supressing his home run totals, as well.

 

I agree with you about him being the best available player in 2007, we should all just accept that he's not going to be a 25 HR guy, and remember that he did hit a crucial grand slam against Carmona in Game 6.

 

I'll give him a pass, he's doing about what I expected out of him.

[SCM33]

I'll give him a pass' date=' he's doing about what I expected out of him.[/quote']

 

I think I expected more, but not too much more. He was never an MVP like the 14M dollar salary would indicate, but how is that his fault? All he did was sign the bottom line....he was always a very good player, but its not like we signed Derek Bell circa 2001.

 

We dont need him to hit 25+ homers. We have plenty of guys capable of driving in runs. JD gets on base, he doesnt clog the basepaths....and other guys can drive him in.

 

A guy who can hit for moderate power, get on base a ton, and play a very tough RF well is a great player to have.

 

He is not a 14M dollar guy, but like I said....who cares? He fits in nicely with this team.

 

There are other concerns with the team much larger than JD Drew and his 14M dollar salary. He will do what he has done, or almost done for his whole career. With the expectations/predictions handed to him since the day he became pro, its hard to expect him to produce those numbers as they were probably unreasonable to begin with.

 

He was a prodigy growing up, and was said to be a future HOF and superstar......well he will never reach those expectations, but you know what? Im okay with that....he was an upgrade to what we had, and hes a very valuable player.

 

Good to see you actually agree with one of my points

[a700hitter]

He is not a 14M dollar guy' date=' but like I said....who cares? He fits in nicely with this team.[/quote']Is he a better fit than Abreu would have been?

[TheKilo]

Is he a better fit than Abreu would have been?

 

f*** Abreu.

[a700hitter]

f*** Abreu.

Yes, f*** all Yankees, but is Drew a better fit than Abreu would have been? Abreu was a cheaper alternative.

[Cocos Disciples]

How exactly is Abreu cheaper? Right now hes making more than Drew (I don't remember if the Yankees signed him to an extension after the deal, but if so, we would probably have done the same anyways), AND we would have had to give up players to get him.

[Jayhawk Bill]

How exactly is Abreu cheaper? Right now hes making more than Drew (I don't remember if the Yankees signed him to an extension after the deal' date=' but if so, we would probably have done the same anyways), AND we would have had to give up players to get him.[/quote']

 

For the record, the Yankees gave up nothing of value for Abreu and Lidle.

[Cocos Disciples]

Even so, they gave up prospects, and if the Sox had done so, they could have easily turned out to be good players.

[a700hitter]

How exactly is Abreu cheaper? Right now hes making more than Drew (I don't remember if the Yankees signed him to an extension after the deal' date=' but if so, we would probably have done the same anyways), AND we would have had to give up players to get him.[/quote']He's a shorter term commitment, essentially he has been on 1 year options, if I remember correctly.