Ortiz wants to renegotiate deal

[riverside sluggers]

http://www.bostonherald.com/sports/baseball/red_sox/view.bg?articleid=1076763&srvc=sox&position=1

 

With him already locked up for the next 4 seasons (including 2011 option), this isnt a pressing need right now for the Sox FO

[Ray10]

I don't think it's something you have to worry about too much at this time considering we still have him locked up for a few more years but I say when it's coming closer to the end of his contract then the FO should work something out with him. He's a franchise player and someone I want to see retire in a Red Sox uniform.

[jacksonianmarch]

If I were Theo, I wouldnt even consider it. By the time Papi's contract is over, he'll be on his last legs in the game. A man at his size will have his career end sooner than a man in good physical condition. The sox were smart in locking him up to the length and cash that they did and Ortiz will have to deal with that.

[riverside sluggers]

Agreed Jacko. Him signing an extension for below the market value put him in the bed he made. Theo has the best DH in baseball locked up for 4 years/$50 million. It is in the best interest to wait until '09 or '10 to determine his worth after he is 34 years old

[Gom]

Without steroids and HGH, he'll be Giambi by then. His body will break down faster than Amy Winehouse.

[a700hitter]

Without steroids and HGH' date=' he'll be Giambi by then. His body will break down faster than Amy Winehouse.[/quote']Rice and beans fuel his machine. At 270 lbs., all from eating, he doesn't need any help to power the ball out of the park. I find the innuendo about Papi to be pretty funny. The argument is that he became a star batting back to back with Manny and his power production increased. Well, he barely got to 400 ABs twice with Minnesota. In 2001 with Minnesota, he had 18 HRs in 303 ABs -- 1 HR per 16.8 ABs. In 2007, he hit one every 15.6 ABs with Manny behind him. Wow, what an unnatural power surge! His best years were between the ages of 27 and 30 when many players come into their own and it coincided with coming to a team with a killer line up and management that wanted him to hit HRs. Tom Kelly of Minnesota did not have the same philosophy. Yaz had his breakout year in 1967 at age 28. Before that he never hit more than 20 in any year. He hit 40 two more times in the next 3 years, and he didn't weigh 270. He played about 100 lbs lighter. Was he on roids too?

 

I also think it is ridiculous that people take his remarks about young players in the DR not knowing what they are taking as evidence that he took roids. If he was taking roids as a young player in the DR, why did it take 6 years at the ML level to come into his own at the ML level? Do roids take 6 years to kick in. Logically, the argument makes no sense. Did he start taking them in 2003 and 04 when everyone stepped taking them due to the BALCO federal investigation. Giambi, Sosa and IRod all dropped significant weight at that time. It's nothing more than jealousy by Yankee fans. Most guys quit the juice by 2004, because it had become a criminal matter, and that's why none of the 2004 - 2007 Sox showed up in the Mitchell Report. The roid era was coming to a close. There was no cover up or conspiracy. The Sox won twice when the roid era was essentially over, and the Yankees won when roids were rampant and the game was dirty. Yankee players engaged in it on a large scale. Several of their best players were juicers that got caught.

It doesn't matter to me that Nomar, O'Leary, Daubach, and Mo might have been doing it, because they never won anything.

[jacksonianmarch]

I find it funny that you dont think any of the championship sox took them. Lets look at 2 significant factors here.

 

A. One of the only guys to talk was previously employed with the Yankees. Why do you think he has so much on previous yankees in the report?

 

B. Mitchell is tied in with the sox organization. He easily could have shied away from any lead into sox usage.

 

I think reason A had a lot more to do with sox omissions and B. Regardless, that was Selig's way of "cleansing the sport" and unfortunately, he didnt do it right. Either let bygones be bygones or perform a full scale purge that involves all trainers and all players rather than the two idiots who happened to get caught. If McNamee never got caught selling roids, there wouldnt be any yankees on this list.

[riverside sluggers]

Most guys quit the juice by 2004, because it had become a criminal matter, and that's why none of the 2004 - 2007 Sox showed up in the Mitchell Report. The roid era was coming to a close. There was no cover up or conspiracy. The Sox won twice when the roid era was essentially over, and the Yankees won when roids were rampant and the game was dirty. Yankee players engaged in it on a large scale. Several of their best players were juicers that got caught.

It doesn't matter to me that Nomar, O'Leary, Daubach, and Mo might have been doing it, because they never won anything.

 

Actually Brendan Donnelly and Eric Gagne both showed up on the Mitchell Report, and Im still skeptical of Trot Nixon's offensive crash after 2003

[Gom]

Rice and beans fuel his machine.

Just like flax seed oil.

His best years were between the ages of 27 and 30 when many players come into their own and it coincided with coming to a team with a killer line up and management that wanted him to hit HRs.

Melky...go hit homeruns. With this management philosophy, he should hit 30 this year, right?

It's nothing more than jealousy by Yankee fans.

Why is it considered jealousy? Players on my team cheated. Players on yours did as well. Players all over the league cheated. I'm saddened by the state of the game, and milestones that should be celebrated, like the career homerun record, are ignored. Other than that, what can you do? I'm jealous that you won two championships in four years, just like you are jealous of us winning four out of five. To think one cheated when the other didn't is naive. This isn't sour grapes. The whole batch is rotten.

Most guys quit the juice by 2004, because it had become a criminal matter, and that's why none of the 2004 - 2007 Sox showed up in the Mitchell Report. The roid era was coming to a close. There was no cover up or conspiracy. The Sox won twice when the roid era was essentially over, and the Yankees won when roids were rampant and the game was dirty. Yankee players engaged in it on a large scale. Several of their best players were juicers that got caught.

I like you a700, but this is the single, most ignorant, dumbest point you could ever make. None of the Red Sox showed up on the Mitchell report? They had two sources. Both in New York. The person running the report works for the Red Sox. Guess which team/teams will be hit hardest? Guess which team will not be under-represented? Can you honestly say that you think NO ONE cheated on the Red Sox, when estimates say that up to 25% of the players were users? You think the steroid era is over? Do you even follow baseball? Seriously. Do you even know what sport this is, or how it's played?

 

BASEBALL, AS A SPORT, ENGAGED IN WIDESPREAD P.E.D. USAGE. IT WAS NOT LIMITED TO ONE TEAM, LEAGUE, OR ANY OTHER FACTOR. MARGINAL PLAYERS ALL THE WAY UP TO SUPERSTARS WERE USERS. MANAGEMENT KNEW. COACHES KNEW. PLAYERS KNEW. EVERYONE LOOKED THE OTHER WAY.

It doesn't matter to me that Nomar, O'Leary, Daubach, and Mo might have been doing it, because they never won anything.

So it's okay to cheat and lose, but if you use it and win, it's then an issue? Are you serious? Either I was wrong about you and you are absolutely and utterly clueless, or you had a brain fart and were under the influence of crystal meth when you posted this. Since I like you, I'm going with crystal meth.

[a700hitter]

Just like flax seed oil.

 

Melky...go hit homeruns. With this management philosophy, he should hit 30 this year, right?

This is pretty dumb. Is he he 6'4" and 270? He doesn't have the ability.

 

Why is it considered jealousy? Players on my team cheated. Players on yours did as well. Players all over the league cheated. I'm saddened by the state of the game' date=' and milestones that should be celebrated, like the career homerun record, are ignored. Other than that, what can you do? I'm jealous that you won two championships in four years, just like you are jealous of us winning four out of five. To think one cheated when the other didn't is naive. This isn't sour grapes. The whole batch is rotten.[/quote']You guys are consumed with jealousy about the Red Sox from the owner on down. So many of you were lapping up the rumors about Tek and Damon being on Mitchell's list, but it wasn't the case. If Yankee fans weren't jealous, they wouldn't be questioning a cover up by Mitchell.

Can you honestly say that you think NO ONE cheated on the Red Sox' date=' when estimates say that up to 25% of the players were users? You think the steroid era is over? Do you even follow baseball? Seriously. Do you even know what sport this is, or how it's played?[/quote']There was one on the 2007 Sox-- Gagne, and he almost ruined the season. Other than that, there are no 2004-07 on the list.

BASEBALL' date=' AS A SPORT, ENGAGED IN WIDESPREAD P.E.D. USAGE. IT WAS NOT LIMITED TO ONE TEAM, LEAGUE, OR ANY OTHER FACTOR. MARGINAL PLAYERS ALL THE WAY UP TO SUPERSTARS WERE USERS. MANAGEMENT KNEW. COACHES KNEW. PLAYERS KNEW. EVERYONE LOOKED THE OTHER WAY.

Gom, I hate to break this to you, but notice that the past tense is being used.

So it's okay to cheat and lose' date=' but if you use it and win, it's then an issue? Are you serious? Either I was wrong about you and you are absolutely and utterly clueless, or you had a brain fart and were under the influence of crystal meth when you posted this. Since I like you, I'm going with crystal meth.[/quote']It doesn't matter if you cheated and lost, because you gained nothing. There is no title to strip. There is no record to be expunged. A loser who cheated received his just desserts. The winner who prospered from cheating is deserving of public excoriation and punishment.

[a700hitter]

Actually Brendan Donnelly and Eric Gagne both showed up on the Mitchell Report' date=' and Im still skeptical of Trot Nixon's offensive crash after 2003[/quote']I forgot about Donnelly, but let's not be unfair to Trot. Is there any evidence that roids causes herniated disks, and let's not forget that he had the bad back from college football. Bad backs usually get worse, especially under the stress of professional athletics.

[Gom]

Thank you for making reiterating every one of my points. It must be really nice to live in your world. You really believe the Red Sox are clean, and the Yankees are dirty? It's amazing, but you really do.

 

You know something? I have no proof of this, and neither do you, but if you ask me, the Royals and Yankees and Tampa Bay and Boston...basically, with a little statistical variation, have about the same percentage of users. You have people like Mota and Lawton, just trying to make the team, and Hall of Famers like Clemens using. You have *******s like Bonds, and nice guys like Pettitte. It's everywhere, it has been, and probably still is. This isn't about the Yanks/Red Sox, it's about baseball. You ask me, every championship in the last decade has been tainted by steroids.

 

Look, I know that if Mitchell was working for the Yankees, and/or they had caught whoever was supplying the Red Sox instead of the Yankees, then you'd have a slew of Red Sox on there and no Yankees. You'd have to deal with those insufferable self-righteous Yankee fans who preached the Yankee way and labeled you guys as cheaters and losers, and would still chant "1918".

 

I just didn't expect you to be the same.

[a700hitter]

Thank you for making reiterating every one of my points. It must be really nice to live in your world. You really believe the Red Sox are clean' date=' and the Yankees are dirty? It's amazing, but you really do. [/quote']No, I think both the Yankees and the Red Sox were dirty pre-2004, and I believe that both the Yankees and the Red Sox post 2003 have been clean.

 

You know something? I have no proof of this' date=' and neither do you, but if you ask me, the Royals and Yankees and Tampa Bay and Boston...basically, with a little statistical variation, have about the same percentage of users. You have people like Mota and Lawton, just trying to make the team, and Hall of Famers like Clemens using. You have *******s like Bonds, and nice guys like Pettitte. It's everywhere, it has been, and probably still is. This isn't about the Yanks/Red Sox, it's about baseball. You ask me, every championship in the last decade has been tainted by steroids.[/quote']You are right. You have no proof. This is nothing more than conjecture meant to smear everyone to look as bad as the revered Yankee Champs, who turned out to be frauds.

 

Look' date=' I know that if Mitchell was working for the Yankees, and/or they had caught whoever was supplying the Red Sox instead of the Yankees, then you'd have a slew of Red Sox on there and no Yankees. You'd have to deal with those insufferable self-righteous Yankee fans who preached the Yankee way and labeled you guys as cheaters and losers, and would still chant "1918". [/quote']But that is not the way it turned out... is it? This is just some fantasy in your head.

[jacksonianmarch]

so nobody cheated after 2003? I have this bridge in brooklyn for sale, wanna buy?

[a700hitter]

so nobody cheated after 2003? I have this bridge in brooklyn for sale' date=' wanna buy?[/quote']No, but it is not as pervasive today as it was before 2004.

[jacksonianmarch]

and you know this how? Until they blood test, there is no way to know what these players are doing. Maybe they arent doing "steroids". But HGH is rampant. And anywhere there is a test, there is a chemist 3 steps ahead of it.

[a700hitter]

and you know this how? Until they blood test' date=' there is no way to know what these players are doing. Maybe they arent doing "steroids". But HGH is rampant. And anywhere there is a test, there is a chemist 3 steps ahead of it.[/quote']...and you know this... how? This is just more conjecture in a pathetic attempt to to paint the current champs as being as dirty as your champs who have been proved to be dirty. Sorry but them's the facts Doc. You and Gom can rail against it all you want, but in the words of Al Capone in the Untouchables: "You got nothin."

 

BTW: I hope that the whoring Rocket wears a Yankee cap to prison.

[TheKilo]

I love it when Yankee fans say there were no Red Sox in the MR because of Mitchell's ties to the Sox, suggesting there is some kind of bias from his end. I love, love, love it.