Official 07 offseason thread

[CrespoBlows]

What'll you do if he says no?

 

EDIT: When he says no...

 

Give Mike Lowell a new contract.

 

We could go the Bonds-Ortiz route, and slide Youkilis to 3B.

[Thumper]

Give Mike Lowell a new contract.

 

We could go the Bonds-Ortiz route, and slide Youkilis to 3B.

 

I mean what would you do if TW101 said no to your question, would A-Rod improve the team. Because even I'll admit having A-Rod would help. But TW101 seems to be stuck in Jimmy Fallon Movie Land.

[TedWilliams101]

Arod would improve the team, yes, but I would rather have Lowell and spend money in other areas. If we can't get Lowell for some reason (would have to be one hell of a damned reason), then maybe I'd be fine with Arod. But its just a lot of damned money for 1 player. But absolutely no to Bonds. We don't need a 44 year old DH and Ortiz playing first base. Quit it with that crap. Theo would laugh at you.

[CrespoBlows]

Arod would improve the team' date=' yes, but I would rather have Lowell and spend money in other areas. If we can't get Lowell for some reason (would have to be one hell of a damned reason), then maybe I'd be fine with Arod. But its just a lot of damned money for 1 player. But absolutely no to Bonds. We don't need a 44 year old DH and Ortiz playing first base. Quit it with that crap. Theo would laugh at you.[/quote']

 

I think Theo is big into OBP. I don't know if he'd laugh.

 

Would adding Bonds make this team better?

[YAZMAN]

If Johnny Damon can dickpunch us' date=' why can't we dickpunch back and take one of theirs?[/quote']

 

Because The Fraud is a reverse dickpunch.

[TedWilliams101]

I don't think the risk of adding Bonds and putting Ortiz at first is worth it. And what would they do if Papi couldn't play first, if his knee could handle it, or it was just too much stress on his body? What would you do, try to trade Bonds now? I mean, come on.

[MANNYHOF24]

I think Theo is big into OBP. I don't know if he'd laugh.

 

Would adding Bonds make this team better?

 

Do you really think it would be wise to put Ortiz in the field everyday considering his age is getting up there and he is allready breaking down physically? This would just be a bad idea for that reason alone.

[Thumper]

Yes' date=' but the fact still remains that I don't want to spend $30 million on one player. It's really a philosophy thing. I don't think 1 player is worth that much. I'd rather spend $30 million in other areas (resign Lowell, MR, bench, etc).[/quote']

 

We spent $50 Million just to TALK with Daisuke Matsuzaka, and now you're telling me you wouldn't want to spend $30 Million on someone who's actually going to play, and play good? Sadly these days in age, the best players cost the most, we may as well get on that bandwagon now before we go to s***.

[TheKilo]

We spent $50 Million just to TALK with Daisuke Matsuzaka' date=' and now you're telling me you wouldn't want to spend $30 Million on someone who's actually going to play, and play good? Sadly these days in age, the best players cost the most, we may as well get on that bandwagon now before we go to s***.[/quote']

 

You can't look at it like that. The $50 mil was a one time expense.

 

The $30 mil will be in effect for 8+ years.

[Soxfan1]

You can't look at it like that. The $50 mil was a one time expense.

 

The $30 mil will be in effect for 8+ years.

Exactly. If you had to pay $50 mil a year to talk to DiceK or even $50 mil every year he was on the market, do you honestly think anyone would bother with him?

 

It's ridiculous. You don't get paid $30 mil+ a year for being like A-Rod.

[TheKilo]

Exactly. If you had to pay $50 mil a year to talk to DiceK or even $50 mil every year he was on the market, do you honestly think anyone would bother with him?

 

It's ridiculous. You don't get paid $30 mil+ a year for being like A-Rod.

 

Actually, you do. It's just a question of if you want to commit that much money to him.

[TedWilliams101]

My biggest problem with all this Arod crap is that we can resign Lowell. Sure he isn't Arod, but he is a WS MVP, he set a record for RBI for a Red Sox 3rd baseman, and he is WAY cheaper than Arod. And just about every RS fan hates Arod.

 

But my biggest problem is all this Bonds talk. It is absolutely ridiculous to actually want Papi to play first base for a full season just so we can sign Bonds for 1 year as a DH. Did you not see all the knee problems he had this year just being in the DH role. You have to be absolutely crazy. And then the obvious problem is this, what the heck would you do if you signed Bonds and come spring training it becomes obvious that Papi's knees couldn't handle playing first for the season. Now what are you going to do? There is no space in the OF, so what, you now try to trade Bonds? Get real.

[TheKilo]

My biggest problem with all this Arod crap is that we can resign Lowell. Sure he isn't Arod' date=' but he is a WS MVP, he set a record for RBI for a Red Sox 3rd baseman, and he is WAY cheaper than Arod. And just about every RS fan hates Arod.[/quote']

 

I love Lowell, and would prefer them to sign him due to the fact it will minimize risk, but Lowell is not a second half player.

 

His slugging percentage takes a dive every year, and it would have this year if not for a freakish .386 BABIP.

 

And if the FO is making decisions based on how fans feel about players they shouldn't have a job.

 

Bonds will most likely not come here. But the FO should explore the option because it would make the team better.

[Thumper]

My biggest problem with all this Arod crap is that we can resign Lowell. Sure he isn't Arod, but he is a WS MVP, he set a record for RBI for a Red Sox 3rd baseman, and he is WAY cheaper than Arod. And just about every RS fan hates Arod.

 

But my biggest problem is all this Bonds talk. It is absolutely ridiculous to actually want Papi to play first base for a full season just so we can sign Bonds for 1 year as a DH. Did you not see all the knee problems he had this year just being in the DH role. You have to be absolutely crazy. And then the obvious problem is this, what the heck would you do if you signed Bonds and come spring training it becomes obvious that Papi's knees couldn't handle playing first for the season. Now what are you going to do? There is no space in the OF, so what, you now try to trade Bonds? Get real.

 

I wouldn't like to sign Bonds at all because he's only a one year thing. I'd rather tale a longer deal from someone younger.

 

And Kilo, I see your point. $30 Million of 8 years is quite a bit and you'd have to be A-Rod to be paid that, something I don't see Theo doing.

 

I would rather see Mikey resigned, but having A-Rod wouldn't be such a bad thing.

[ORS]

Come on. Get real.

 

Enough of the sandy vagina-speak.

 

Ortiz' knee does not have structural damage, just some scar tissue causing pain. He had it before the year started. The team wanted him to have it scoped last year in the offseason and he opted to play through it.

 

Let me first say that I don't think this is even a topic that should merit serious consideration on our part because I don't see the team doing it or the player signing here. That said, any claim of the ridiculousness of the notion of playing Papi at first needs some examination by the person stating it. What's ridiculous is the notion that a 32 y/o man can't play 1B for one year without completely breaking down. He's not playing half-back for Herm Edwards for a year. Nor is he being asked to play swingman for Riley's Lakers. Keep this in perspective. We are talking about playing 1B. If he can run the bases, which he'll have to do as a DH, he can play 1B.

 

Now, this isn't to say I think they ought to do this. The "ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy has some merit here, but let's not hyperbolize the risk. It's minimal.

[TedWilliams101]

But if it's not going to happen and isn't a good move, why mention it here as a good move? Thats my problem.

[TheKilo]

Come on. Get real.

 

Enough of the sandy vagina-speak.

 

Ortiz' knee does not have structural damage, just some scar tissue causing pain. He had it before the year started. The team wanted him to have it scoped last year in the offseason and he opted to play through it.

 

Let me first say that I don't think this is even a topic that should merit serious consideration on our part because I don't see the team doing it or the player signing here. That said, any claim of the ridiculousness of the notion of playing Papi at first needs some examination by the person stating it. What's ridiculous is the notion that a 32 y/o man can't play 1B for one year without completely breaking down. He's not playing half-back for Herm Edwards for a year. Nor is he being asked to play swingman for Riley's Lakers. Keep this in perspective. We are talking about playing 1B. If he can run the bases, which he'll have to do as a DH, he can play 1B.

 

Now, this isn't to say I think they ought to do this. The "ain't broke, don't fix it" philosophy has some merit here, but let's not hyperbolize the risk. It's minimal.

 

I agree 100%.

[ORS]

But if it's not going to happen and isn't a good move' date=' why mention it here as a good move? Thats my problem.[/quote']

Read your question. Now read my post. Finally, tell me where I say if it's a good move or bad move.

 

Clearly, your problems extend beyond this discussion.

[example1]

My prediction:

 

If playing at 1B Ortiz would win the MVP.

 

It isn't worth an MVP to the Sox so they won't do it unless they absolutely have to.

[Soxfan1]

My biggest problem with all this Arod crap is that we can resign Lowell. Sure he isn't Arod, but he is a WS MVP, he set a record for RBI for a Red Sox 3rd baseman, and he is WAY cheaper than Arod. And just about every RS fan hates Arod.

 

But my biggest problem is all this Bonds talk. It is absolutely ridiculous to actually want Papi to play first base for a full season just so we can sign Bonds for 1 year as a DH. Did you not see all the knee problems he had this year just being in the DH role. You have to be absolutely crazy. And then the obvious problem is this, what the heck would you do if you signed Bonds and come spring training it becomes obvious that Papi's knees couldn't handle playing first for the season. Now what are you going to do? There is no space in the OF, so what, you now try to trade Bonds? Get real.

 

All that matters there, although I'd prefer to resign lowell as well.

[Soxfan1]

My prediction:

 

If playing at 1B Ortiz would win the MVP.

 

It isn't worth an MVP to the Sox so they won't do it unless they absolutely have to.

What do you guys think of Ortiz wanting or not wanting to play 1B? You think he'd risk injury in for a chance to win the MVP?

[Jayhawk Bill]

What do you guys think of Ortiz wanting or not wanting to play 1B? You think he'd risk injury in for a chance to win the MVP?

 

I think that David Ortiz would do whatever Theo and Tito asked him to do. Foremost, Papi is a good guy; secondarily, they (and Grady Little) gave him his great chance. I don't think that Papi's desire for any award has anything to do with it: he'll do his best.

 

That said, players of Papi's phenotype are usually declining by his age. David Ortiz played hurt for most of 2007; perhaps most significantly, the most likely cure for his reported 2006 cardiac condition would have been an adrenalin blocker, and the 2007 Big Papi wasn't a notable clutch hitter...he was neither bad nor good in that respect, but not the 2004 Big Papi.

 

I'd keep David Ortiz at DH and Manny in LF for 2008, perhaps with Papi playing a few games at first and Manny DHing occasionally on the road.

[example1]

I think that David Ortiz would do whatever Theo and Tito asked him to do. Foremost, Papi is a good guy; secondarily, they (and Grady Little) gave him his great chance. I don't think that Papi's desire for any award has anything to do with it: he'll do his best.

 

That said, players of Papi's phenotype are usually declining by his age. David Ortiz played hurt for most of 2007; perhaps most significantly, the most likely cure for his reported 2006 cardiac condition would have been an adrenalin blocker, and the 2007 Big Papi wasn't a notable clutch hitter...he was neither bad nor good in that respect, but not the 2004 Big Papi.

 

I'd keep David Ortiz at DH and Manny in LF for 2008, perhaps with Papi playing a few games at first and Manny DHing occasionally on the road.

 

Yes. Papi will do whatever it takes to win. In the past few years his status as a big-time hitter may have gone to his head a bit more (notice increase in bling and self-assured commentary), but he remains a good guy and a great team leader. His head and priorities appear to be in the right place and not too focused on individual statistics and achievements.

 

My point above wasn't so much that Ortiz should play 1B--even if he wants to--it was the absurdities of the notion that a "DH can't win an MVP". I think the majority of that argument was that he COULDN'T POSSIBLY play 1B, which most of us who watch him in the field simply do not believe but which the mainstream media appear to see as invalid. The guy would be an average 1B defensively, and thus become MORE than eligible for an MVP award in the minds of the simple-minded "you must play the field to be more valuable, even if you are more valuable to your team studying pitchers and letting a good 1B play 1B" crowd.

 

I think Manny will be gone because of the reasons you listed above JB. LF is a position that, at fenway, is good for someone of almost any outfield position, thus opening up the FA/trade possibilities to nearly any corner infielder or anyone who plays any of the 3 OF positions elsewhere. He's a great player who I like a lot, but he doesn't have the benefit of an open DH Position and because of David Ortiz's existence--perhaps as the best DH ever--the Sox don't have the same flexibility with their positions that other teams (even in the AL) appear to have.

[TedWilliams101]

I wouldn't want to lose Manny this year. I want him through 08. Even at his age, he is still one the best hitters in the game, and probably the most "clutch".

[Beaneater]

Here's my brief summary of many of the comments on this thread:

 

Various Talksoxers: We should shoot for A-Rod or Bonds or both.

TW101: Yuck.

Various Talksoxers: Well, TW101, would we or would we not be better with those guys?

 

Let me throw in my $.02 on TW101's side. Call me naive or whatever you want, but I'm not solely interested in rooting for a winning team. In other words, "Would we or would we not be better with A-Rod/Bonds?" is not the only question I ask as a Red Sox fan, and maybe not even the most important question. I mean, one of the reasons I don't like the Yankees (aside from the fact that I'm legally obligated to dislike them as a Red Sox fan) is that they're a bunch of personality-challenged corporate suits. Look at what happened to Damon when he went there. No hair, no beard, and most importantly no fun.

 

A (big) part of the joy of rooting for the Red Sox over the last few years has been the personalities on the team. I hardly need to give you guys any examples. My current favorite is Pedroia, a guy who is very easy to root for thanks to his permanent underdog status and tell-it-like-it-is approach to the media (the outstanding play on the field doesn't hurt either).

 

Now I'm not saying that adding A-Rod and Bonds automatically turns the Red Sox into a bunch of jerks. None of us knows what would happen. But I am saying that as a fan I'm not solely interested in winning. I understand that for the front office, it's a business and so they have to construct teams that will win. Fine. But if as fans all we want is a winning team, we'd have all been buying Yankees hats in the lates 90's.

 

Don't get me wrong: I like winning. But it's not the only factor.

 

To conclude with a ridiculous hypothetical situation: let's say the Sox get Bonds, Milton Bradley, A.J. Pierzsinksisnkinkski, and every other known jerk in MLB. Then they win the 2008 World Series. I'm not going to be celebrating; I'll be saying, "Look, a bunch of tools wearing Red Sox uniforms just won the World Series."

[Mr Crunchy]

the redsox were owned by a noose hanging no niggers allowed card carrying klansmen for 60 years.

they have had some of the games biggest **********s play here from jimmy peirsall to jim ed rice to dennis boyd and raja clemens to wade boggs

as well as the jose cansecos of the world.

i loved them all in a sox uniform

when they leave here i will then judge them by character and performance

its the name on the front of the jersey that i worship

not the back.

 

the book is out on lugo and drew

i love these guys because theyre members of this 2007team.

when they leave here?

i may slash their tires or i may send them a farewell card if they produced well enough.

[TheKilo]

ARod is good friends with both Manny and Ortiz.

[VA Sox Fan]

ARod is good friends with both Manny and Ortiz.

 

Good friends? Really? Cool!

[TheKilo]

Good friends? Really? Cool!

 

Yes. So I'm sure he'd be a clubhouse distraction, or as Beaneater said "turn them all into a bunch of jerks."

[CrespoBlows]

Here's my brief summary of many of the comments on this thread:

 

Various Talksoxers: We should shoot for A-Rod or Bonds or both.

TW101: Yuck.

Various Talksoxers: Well, TW101, would we or would we not be better with those guys?

 

Let me throw in my $.02 on TW101's side. Call me naive or whatever you want, but I'm not solely interested in rooting for a winning team. In other words, "Would we or would we not be better with A-Rod/Bonds?" is not the only question I ask as a Red Sox fan, and maybe not even the most important question. I mean, one of the reasons I don't like the Yankees (aside from the fact that I'm legally obligated to dislike them as a Red Sox fan) is that they're a bunch of personality-challenged corporate suits. Look at what happened to Damon when he went there. No hair, no beard, and most importantly no fun.

 

A (big) part of the joy of rooting for the Red Sox over the last few years has been the personalities on the team. I hardly need to give you guys any examples. My current favorite is Pedroia, a guy who is very easy to root for thanks to his permanent underdog status and tell-it-like-it-is approach to the media (the outstanding play on the field doesn't hurt either).

 

Now I'm not saying that adding A-Rod and Bonds automatically turns the Red Sox into a bunch of jerks. None of us knows what would happen. But I am saying that as a fan I'm not solely interested in winning. I understand that for the front office, it's a business and so they have to construct teams that will win. Fine. But if as fans all we want is a winning team, we'd have all been buying Yankees hats in the lates 90's.

 

Don't get me wrong: I like winning. But it's not the only factor.

 

To conclude with a ridiculous hypothetical situation: let's say the Sox get Bonds, Milton Bradley, A.J. Pierzsinksisnkinkski, and every other known jerk in MLB. Then they win the 2008 World Series. I'm not going to be celebrating; I'll be saying, "Look, a bunch of tools wearing Red Sox uniforms just won the World Series."

 

This made absolutely zero sense. You want to win, but you want the team purged of all "jerks?"

 

You must have been writhing in pain, when Schilling won Game 6 of the 2004 ALCS.