Torre lied

[jacksonianmarch]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.tuesday/index.html

 

The gist of the article is that Torre has negotiated a 4.5 mil, 1 yr offer in the ST of 2007 with Steve Swindal saying that he wanted to close out Yankee stadium. But before they could finalize the offer, Swindal got his DWI and subsequent divorce and dismissal from NYY. The Yankees, at the time, decided to hold off on all of their FAs, even Torre until this offseason. So come the offseason, he gets an offer that guarantees more $$$ than what he had negotiated with Swindal for the same length or even longer should he get to the WS and he turned it down saying he was insulted?

 

And also, Heyman is correct in pointing out that Torre had incentives in his contract up until 2004 when Swindal gave him the bloated 6.4 mil per yr deal. Torre lied to everyone on this by spinning the disrespect card. The Yankees offered more guaranteed money, much more money in incentives and the possibility of turning the deal into a 2009 deal as well. Some insult. Thanks for the memories Joe, but you sucked late in your career and now you lie on your way out. See you in 5 yrs when you are inducted into the HOF, until then, good riddance.

[bobby jr]

I think you'll be seeing Joe next season managing another team, sounds like he isn't ready for the rocking chair yet. I agree that Torre's best days as a manager were years ago but he apparently does not realize that, or else he is unwilling to get out of the limelight.

 

Steinbrenner's win or else outburst during the Cleveland series did make it difficult for Torre to stay.

[Mr Crunchy]

good to see the classy yankees rise above all this inner commotion

y'all be pining for the salad days of gabe paul bobby kelly and kenny phelps very soon

[TheKilo]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.tuesday/index.html

 

The gist of the article is that Torre has negotiated a 4.5 mil, 1 yr offer in the ST of 2007 with Steve Swindal saying that he wanted to close out Yankee stadium. But before they could finalize the offer, Swindal got his DWI and subsequent divorce and dismissal from NYY. The Yankees, at the time, decided to hold off on all of their FAs, even Torre until this offseason. So come the offseason, he gets an offer that guarantees more $$$ than what he had negotiated with Swindal for the same length or even longer should he get to the WS and he turned it down saying he was insulted?

 

You forget one small thing. This Yankees team was expected to win the division in the preseason, and many on this board thought they'd do it easily. However, with the team's 21-29 start based largely on the s***** pitching staff Brian Cashman assembled, it looked as if the Yankees were going to miss the playoffs entirely.

 

http://www.coolstandings.com/%5Ccharts%5C2007_coolstats_s_NYY.jpg

 

Coolstandings.com had them at about 10% to make the playoffs on June 1st. So what do the Yankees do? They go 73-39 the rest of the way and win the Wild Card by six f***ing games. The players credited Torre with the turnaround, many saying it would not have happened had someone else been managing the Yankees.

 

After this season, from saving a lost season on the brink, and the ******** he endured in the playoffs, the fact the Yankees cut his pay and threw in performance incentives (something they have never done for players), how could he not feel insulted?

 

And also, Heyman is correct in pointing out that Torre had incentives in his contract up until 2004 when Swindal gave him the bloated 6.4 mil per yr deal. Torre lied to everyone on this by spinning the disrespect card. The Yankees offered more guaranteed money, much more money in incentives and the possibility of turning the deal into a 2009 deal as well. Some insult. Thanks for the memories Joe, but you sucked late in your career and now you lie on your way out. See you in 5 yrs when you are inducted into the HOF, until then, good riddance.

 

Maybe it's because he earned a guaranteed contract as opposed to performance incentives?

 

You're making my point for me, Jacko. After all the guy had done he was given a guaranteed deal. then, after one of his best seasons managing, he gets a pay cut and has the incentive clauses thrown back in? How would he not feel insulted? IS he being punished for doing a good job?

[example1]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/10/23/scoop.tuesday/index.html

 

The gist of the article is that Torre has negotiated a 4.5 mil, 1 yr offer in the ST of 2007 with Steve Swindal saying that he wanted to close out Yankee stadium. But before they could finalize the offer, Swindal got his DWI and subsequent divorce and dismissal from NYY. The Yankees, at the time, decided to hold off on all of their FAs, even Torre until this offseason. So come the offseason, he gets an offer that guarantees more $$$ than what he had negotiated with Swindal for the same length or even longer should he get to the WS and he turned it down saying he was insulted?

 

And also, Heyman is correct in pointing out that Torre had incentives in his contract up until 2004 when Swindal gave him the bloated 6.4 mil per yr deal. Torre lied to everyone on this by spinning the disrespect card. The Yankees offered more guaranteed money, much more money in incentives and the possibility of turning the deal into a 2009 deal as well. Some insult. Thanks for the memories Joe, but you sucked late in your career and now you lie on your way out. See you in 5 yrs when you are inducted into the HOF, until then, good riddance.

 

A few things:

 

1) Why make something like getting to the playoffs an 'incentive' for someone who has been making it regularly for his entire tenure in NY? Shouldn't that be built into his contract at this point?

 

Perhaps you will have a clearer answer to that if the Yankees miss the playoffs and get to watch from home for a few years.

 

2) Don't you see how Torre necessarily would have had an axe over his head had he accepted the position? They are saying they don't like what he's been able to do with his team, they are offering him less money, and they are only willing to give him a one year deal, at a price that would hardly make the Yankees yawn if they had to fire him mid-season. In his eyes he's worth less and is more of a risk to them than is Kyle Farnsworth.

 

I can completely see how he felt like he was being disrespected, not because of money, but because of the need to attain incentives to make what he made previously and the team's unwillingness to even NEGOTIATE anything beyond 1-year.

 

I think you're wrong to throw Torre under the bus on this one JM. I think a good view is that it was simply time for them to move on. I find it disrespectful that the Yankees even offered him anything for only one year, as it was clear they didn't want him for the long term.

 

It's like trying to distance yourself from a girl who REALLY likes you when the feelings aren't mutual. (don't know if you've experienced it, perhaps you have.) When it's clear that you're not into her and not willing to make a commitment beyond anything very short term and non-commital, her character is lacking if she isn't willing to move on and share her 'talents' elsewhere.

 

Torre would have been a chump to sign for one year with a perpetual decapitation hanging in the air until someone better comes along or the team shits the bed.

[Gom]

Barry Bonds is about to get a paycut. He had one of the best seasons in the National League last year. Glavine is going to get a paycut. Your performance slips, you get a paycut.

 

If you give Torre credit for the turnaround, blame him for the poor start as well. You can't have it one way and not the other, Kilo.

 

His "paycut" would have been more money than he ever made in his life if he made it to the World Series. His "paycut" would result in a higher salary than any manager [including incentives] in baseball next year regardless of how his team performed.

 

The reality of it is this. Both the Yankees and the Red Sox, with their huge payroll disparity compared to the rest of the American League, SHOULD make the playoffs every year.

 

Taking this Yankee team and making it into the playoffs is not a true accomplishment. Sorry, it isn't. It isn't a sense of entitlement, it's reality. We should make the playoffs. So should you guys. How many times have you guys missed the playoffs since you started spending? Is is an accomplishment for you guys to have made the playoffs? Come on.

 

Torre would be making more money than at least three managers who had won a World Series over the last three years.

 

When you guys bring back Schilling to another 4 year deal, then come talk about respect for Torre.

 

Torre wanted to get rewarded for doing what was expected of him. Good riddance.

[schillingouttheks]

Barry Bonds is about to get a paycut. He had one of the best seasons in the National League last year. Glavine is going to get a paycut. Your performance slips' date=' you get a paycut.[/quote']

 

This sentence contradicts itself.

 

Not only that, but Torre's performance didn't slip. He led the Yanks to the best second half that baseball has seen in quite some time. The players just flat out sucked in the first half. Torre had something to do with the turnaround. If the players are crediting him, why should Yankees fans feel otherwise?

[Gom]

The truth of the matter is that Joe Torre is one of the best managers in baseball as soon as the game is over and up until the start of the next game. He is great with the players, the press, he does everything right after the game.

 

In the game, he is one of the worst strategists in the game. He can't manage a bullpen in the DHing American League.

 

He does not deserve to be the highest paid manager in the game. He was made an offer that would have kept him that way. He is not as good a manager as Francona. Not by a long shot. He is not as good as Mike Scioscia. He is not as good as Leyland, or Larussa. He was outmanaged by Wedge in the series.

 

He got more in an offer than I would have given him, that's for sure. I would have given him a $2 million base, and up to 3 million in incentives. If you don't like that, walk.

[yankees228]

The truth of the matter is that Joe Torre is one of the best managers in baseball as soon as the game is over and up until the start of the next game. He is great with the players, the press, he does everything right after the game.

 

In the game, he is one of the worst strategists in the game. He can't manage a bullpen in the DHing American League.

 

It's funny, a team gets knocked out of the playoffs and all of a sudden everyone's an expert.

[a700hitter]

Torre would have been a chump to sign for one year with a perpetual decapitation hanging in the air until someone better comes along or the team shits the bed.

Now, he has no $5 million job and his endorsements will dry up a year sooner. He doesn't have to worry about the sword hanging over his head.

[Gom]

It's funny, a team gets knocked out of the playoffs and all of a sudden everyone's an expert.

No, he's been stellar in his bullpen rotation for quite some time now. That whole Arod debacle in the playoffs last year was the beginning of the end for him.

[example1]

Barry Bonds is about to get a paycut. He had one of the best seasons in the National League last year. Glavine is going to get a paycut. Your performance slips, you get a paycut.

 

If you give Torre credit for the turnaround, blame him for the poor start as well. You can't have it one way and not the other, Kilo.

 

Who did Bonds and Glavine sign with for one year?

 

His "paycut" would have been more money than he ever made in his life if he made it to the World Series. His "paycut" would result in a higher salary than any manager [including incentives] in baseball next year regardless of how his team performed.

 

For one year, with the potential of getting fired whenever the ownership needed someone to throw under the bus. That's the classic "thanks but no thanks" offer.

 

The reality of it is this. Both the Yankees and the Red Sox, with their huge payroll disparity compared to the rest of the American League, SHOULD make the playoffs every year.

 

Taking this Yankee team and making it into the playoffs is not a true accomplishment. Sorry, it isn't. It isn't a sense of entitlement, it's reality. We should make the playoffs. So should you guys. How many times have you guys missed the playoffs since you started spending? Is is an accomplishment for you guys to have made the playoffs? Come on.

 

Yes, it is an accomplishment to make the playoffs. Your view is jaded Gom. They SHOULD make the playoffs every year, but it isn't given to them on a platter. If either of these teams has injuries or a weak pitching staff they will be in danger of not making it, year in and year out. Teams like Anaheim, Detroit, Cleveland and the Twins will be around for the next few years making things difficult, and there are always other late-bloomers too.

 

Torre would be making more money than at least three managers who had won a World Series over the last three years.

 

And less than Farnsworth. Again, it's not about the money. Think about it this way: Torre is a free agent. Your team offered him a ONE YEAR contract and he knows he can get more than a ONE YEAR contract elsewhere. That's all there is to it. The "mystique" of the Yankees clearly wasn't enough to keep him around after having been shat upon with a 1 year deal.

 

When you guys bring back Schilling to another 4 year deal, then come talk about respect for Torre.

 

Nobody is going to blame Schilling or the Sox if he goes someplace for 3 years.

 

Torre wanted to get rewarded for doing what was expected of him. Good riddance.

 

Torre wanted to get recognized for doing what was unprecedented.

[example1]

Now' date=' he has no $5 million job and his endorsements will dry up a year sooner. He doesn't have to worry about the sword hanging over his head.[/quote']

 

I don't hear you doing a whole lot of worrying about all of the OTHER Hall of Fame players and managers who no longer take the field every day, a700. You think Joe Torre will have a hard time finding money and will need endorsements? Seriously?

 

As a speaker alone he could do very, very well.

[Mr Crunchy]

joe torre has mid 8 figures in the checking account

im not sure theres an urgency to earn just yet

maybe this weekend i'll see him at the breeders cup at monmouth park and i'll toss him a 10.00 bill and tell him to keep his chin up.

maybe he can tune into fox to see a team who loves their manager play for it all....

talk is cheap

do you really think torre jeter and posada were begging for clemens return or were they promoting the company line?

 

he may have mismanaged his bullpen but when you trot out the likes of pavano igawa mussina and clemens thru out the year your bullpen should be frayed and exhausted...

that still had no bearing on wang gagging on the wong

and the bats,led by captain intangibles,sleeping soundly against cleveland.

blame torre

its easier than accepting the fact that this teams pitching staff is horrible

[rician blast]

I don't hear you doing a whole lot of worrying about all of the OTHER Hall of Fame players and managers who no longer take the field every day, a700. You think Joe Torre will have a hard time finding money and will need endorsements? Seriously?

 

As a speaker alone he could do very, very well.

 

 

He could do advertisements for Neo-Synephrine nasal spray...that fkn schnoz of his is already famous...they'd just have to stay on him about not picking it during filming.

[Mr Crunchy]

the scariest thing i ever saw on my brand new sony hd 60 inch set was joe torre sinking his pinky knuckle deep to the fist into his nostril.

id rather see andre""moose""dupont and bobby clarke mark out with tongues.

(that was for you jimma)

i was thisclose2 putting the old 27 sanyo back up

i took a xanax and did some breathing exercises and now manage to deal with it

[TheKilo]

Barry Bonds is about to get a paycut. He had one of the best seasons in the National League last year. Glavine is going to get a paycut. Your performance slips, you get a paycut.

 

If you give Torre credit for the turnaround, blame him for the poor start as well. You can't have it one way and not the other, Kilo.

 

I absolutely agree. Knock him for being below average for the first 50 games. But he was otherworldly in the following 112. So in that instance, he should not be punished for his or his teams performance.

 

His "paycut" would have been more money than he ever made in his life if he made it to the World Series. His "paycut" would result in a higher salary than any manager [including incentives] in baseball next year regardless of how his team performed.

 

What's an extra $2 million to the Yankees? Why did they feel the need to cut his pay after one of his best seasons? Why introduce performance incentives when they had been taken away?

 

Fact is, doing all of this on the heels of the 2nd half the Yankees did could be constured as an insult. if I was in Torre's position, I'd feel insulted too.

 

The reality of it is this. Both the Yankees and the Red Sox, with their huge payroll disparity compared to the rest of the American League, SHOULD make the playoffs every year.

 

Taking this Yankee team and making it into the playoffs is not a true accomplishment. Sorry, it isn't. It isn't a sense of entitlement, it's reality. We should make the playoffs. So should you guys. How many times have you guys missed the playoffs since you started spending? Is is an accomplishment for you guys to have made the playoffs? Come on.

 

While I agree that the teams with the two highest payrolls should be favorites to make the playoffs, I do not think it should be viewed as a "guarantee". Look at the Sox last year....if a team gets hit with a rash of injuries, what can you do about that? Look at the Yanks' first 50 games this year....if players under perform (besides ARod) what can you do about that?

 

There is far, far too much uncertainty in baseball to take those things for granted. That's why I thought RS fans should enjoy the division as much as possible. Being the best team over 162 games means something.

 

Torre would be making more money than at least three managers who had won a World Series over the last three years.

 

When you guys bring back Schilling to another 4 year deal, then come talk about respect for Torre.

 

Torre wanted to get rewarded for doing what was expected of him. Good riddance.

 

See my last point. I also think comparing managers to players is quite foolish.

[LUGOforMVP]

In the game' date=' he is one of the worst strategists in the game. He can't manage a bullpen in the DHing American League. [/quote']

Grady Little is the worst, hands down.

[TheKilo]

Grady Little is the worst' date=' hands down.[/quote']

 

You're not gonna run into much resistance for that one around here.

[rician blast]

Grady Fkn Little is personally responsible for sending me into a Xanax/Bud/JD bender for a several days after his total mismanagement of Game 7 of the 2007 ALCS.

[VA Sox Fan]

Grady Fkn Little is personally responsible for sending me into a Xanax/Bud/JD bender for a several days after his total mismanagement of Game 7 of the 2007 ALCS.

 

Dude, you mean 2003.....

[chacha]

Dude' date=' you mean 2003.....[/quote']

 

 

it's the xanax, VA

it does it to all of us

you are forever stuck on that day you started downing them

[VA Sox Fan]

it's the xanax, VA

it does it to all of us

you are forever stuck on that day you started downing them

 

[a700hitter]

I don't hear you doing a whole lot of worrying about all of the OTHER Hall of Fame players and managers who no longer take the field every day, a700. You think Joe Torre will have a hard time finding money and will need endorsements? Seriously?

 

As a speaker alone he could do very, very well.

The endorsements always diminish after retirement. When is the last time you saw a Bo Jackson commercial.

Joe will fast become yesterdays news. He'll miss that $5 million and he'll regret having walked away from his dream job-- his identity. What a schmuck. He reacted emotionally, like a petulant child. Goodbye Joe.

[YAZMAN]

it's the xanax, VA

it does it to all of us

you are forever stuck on that day you started downing them

 

And they're not even crunchy.

[jacksonianmarch]

you guys are missing the point.

 

He was ready to accept a 1 yr deal for 4.5mil in ST. He had an interesting regular season, but nothing in the postseason that changed anything and as we know, you are measured by postseason performance in NY. He was then offered a 5mil deal (note, raise of 500K) with incentives to make him double the initial deal offered in ST. And then he leaves saying he was insulted, when he was actually offered more than he would have accepted in ST after having a season that really wasnt one of his best.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Barry Bonds is about to get a paycut. He had one of the best seasons in the National League last year. Glavine is going to get a paycut. Your performance slips' date=' you get a paycut.[/b']

 

Lol...nice.

 

Anyways...whatever about the paycut stuff....but if the Yanks are looking to go in a different direction, Mattingly's not the answer. He's a Torre protege.

[TheKilo]

you guys are missing the point.

 

He was ready to accept a 1 yr deal for 4.5mil in ST. He had an interesting regular season, but nothing in the postseason that changed anything and as we know, you are measured by postseason performance in NY. He was then offered a 5mil deal (note, raise of 500K) with incentives to make him double the initial deal offered in ST. And then he leaves saying he was insulted, when he was actually offered more than he would have accepted in ST after having a season that really wasnt one of his best.

 

Thats horseshit, I'm sorry. Your anti-Torre bias leaves you missing the point, not me.

[Mr Crunchy]

playing .700 ball for 4 months and overcoming the adversity thrust on him by cashman was remarkable

i actually thought joe did his best work from 05 on

think of the disasters that have been trotted out for him time and time again since 04

seriously

the pitching aquisitions have been f***ing atrocious

from johnson to igawa to wright and pavano theyve been f***ing awful.

the rest of the team aged and none of them showed against cleveland

wang gagged badly,very badly and if you want 1 reason why they didnt get past cleveland it is wang.

so the coach is gone and maybe joe girardi,who fought with miami ownership and has 1 season of managing under his belt,will be able to turn it around

but if he cant pitch it really wont matter will it

[BudLight]

Insult or not, Torre made the right decision! The 2008 Yankees will not resemble any team Joe was give over his tenure in NY. The team is getting younger (transition) and Joe has never been in that situation before. Could he succeed without all of the overpaid all-stars? Who knows. Why take that chance, he has nothing to prove to anyone. He is a HOF manager. He doesn't need the money nor the aggravation that comes along with being the manager in NY. Personally, I hope he never manages again, he doesn't need to in order to gain entrance into the HOF.