Peyton Manning - Greatest QB ever?

[mtbykr]

Putting Favre into the same category as those guys is criminal. Favre is a selfish player and puts himself ahead of the team. His reputation is even being more tarnished as he still stays in the league and throws up passes into quadruple coverage.

 

Hasn't he lead the league in picks the past 2 years?

 

Right now that is true....but isn't Favre getting ready to break some of Marino's records that all the 'stat people' here hold in such high regard? (those same records that the same people are saying Peyton will break which will help make him the greatest)

 

If Peyton continues like he has (again he's got a long way to go) he will be one of the greatest, obviously better than Favre.....just pointing out the facts.

[TheKilo]

Putting Favre into the same category as those guys is criminal. Favre is a selfish player and puts himself ahead of the team. His reputation is even being more tarnished as he still stays in the league and throws up passes into quadruple coverage.

 

Hasn't he lead the league in picks the past 2 years?

 

Selfish player? That's pretty comical. You really think the Packers would be better off with Aaron Rodgers as their QB the last two seasons?

 

They were a playoff team in '04. Was Rodgers going to make a difference in '05? Last year?

 

Get off your soapbox. He's not what he once was but the guy is an all time great.

[TheKilo]

Right now that is true....but isn't Favre getting ready to break some of Marino's records that all the 'stat people' here hold in such high regard? (those same records that the same people are saying Peyton will break which will help make him the greatest)

 

If Peyton continues like he has (again he's got a long way to go) he will be one of the greatest, obviously better than Favre.....just pointing out the facts.

 

Do you think Brady is one of the best ever?

[schillingouttheks]

Manning will be the best quarterback the NFL has ever seen when all is said and done (barring any injuries, of course). I love Brady and I do think he'll be one of the best quarterbacks the NFL has ever seen as well, but Manning is better.

 

I don't like tagging players as "the best ever" during their careers.

 

All that said, I'd be happy with either one as my QB.

[Mr Crunchy]

brett favre??

ya

if desmond howard doesnt return 2 kickoffs for touchdowns as the fat tuna was writing his acceptance speach to take over the jets instead of preparing for the superbowl then brett favre would be up there with craig morton as a clutch performer

f*** brett favre

he and his streak of consecutive games is a joke

last year against the pats as he was getting his dick pounded into the dirt he left with what looked like a broken neck in the 2nd quarter

his replacement came in and was promptly knocked out for the season with a broken foot

favres injury miraculously healed for the next weeks game and his streak stayed intact

f*** brett favre

 

and peyton manning??

are you serious??

4 year starter at tennessee and never won a big game

the year he left tennesee t martin leads the vols to the national championship

coincidence??

sure

the colts had a nice team last year led by bob sanders and once again a strong offense led by manning with 2 great wideouts a decent running game and a good tight end

manning didnt get dirty all year.

anyways

they were 1 reche caldwell drop away from getting beat at home again in the playoffs

1 pats 1st down away from failure

too bad caldwell dropped 2 balls or we would be discussing

""is peyton manning the biggest choke in history""

you put your money on manning

i'll take tom brady

we wont be featuring reche caldwell this year

the field is a bit more balanced

[TheKilo]

brett favre??

ya

if desmond howard doesnt return 2 kickoffs for touchdowns as the fat tuna was writing his acceptance speach to take over the jets instead of preparing for the superbowl then brett favre would be up there with craig morton as a clutch performer

f*** brett favre

he and his streak of consecutive games is a joke

last year against the pats as he was getting his dick pounded into the dirt he left with what looked like a broken neck in the 2nd quarter

his replacement came in and was promptly knocked out for the season with a broken foot

favres injury miraculously healed for the next weeks game and his streak stayed intact

f*** brett favre

 

Someone's still bitter from SB XXXI. No big deal, it's OK.

 

Is his three consecutive MVPs a joke?

 

Don't be bitter.

 

and peyton manning??

are you serious??

4 year starter at tennessee and never won a big game

 

Because he plays so well on defense too

 

the year he left tennesee t martin leads the vols to the national championship

coincidence??

 

On what planet is T martin a better QB than Manning?

 

the colts had a nice team last year led by bob sanders and once again a strong offense led by manning with 2 great wideouts a decent running game and a good tight end

manning didnt get dirty all year.

 

What does this have to do with anything, besides prove my point?

 

anyways

they were 1 reche caldwell drop away from getting beat at home again in the playoffs

1 pats 1st down away from failure

 

What about Brady's INT to end the game?

 

too bad caldwell dropped 2 balls or we would be discussing

""is peyton manning the biggest choke in history""

you put your money on manning

i'll take tom brady

we wont be featuring reche caldwell this year

the field is a bit more balanced

 

You're mentioning his supporting cast, not the QB himself.

[Mr Crunchy]

historically speaking in big games the pats defense outscores mannings offense kilo

did you just start watching these games last year??

he personally made assante samuel 8M last year and he made ty law a lot more over the years.

t martin isnt as good as manning,no way

ive seen the #s and i watched the games

i agree

manning is a better qb as t martin didnt make the nfl

he just won a national championship when manning never even won his conference championship

manning was 0-4 against florida?

martin 1-0.

 

as far as brett favre goes

what has he done this century that justifies the ballwashing outside of this ""old blood and guts"" ******** that i consider about as legit as little george bush's military genious.

he leads the world in int's and when given enuff rope by his head coach he will hang his team with it in each instance,we've all witnessed this

michael vick is 1-0 against brett favre in the playoffs...

my god

 

was there a worse team than the 2006 chicago bears to play in a superbowl game?

a worse qb than rex grossman??

outside david woodley with the 82 dolphins and perhaps the 77 broncos using norris weese while craig morton cried himself into retirement but none that really come to mind.

i dont think there was a worse qb to play in the superbowl than rex grossman

joe kapp maybe??

as i think about the stiffs ive seen play in the superbowl i cant think of anyone worse than grossman.

 

im not bitter about the 97 superbowl

i had the packers and the line locally fell to 12.5 so i made a few bucks

im bitter about the 98 superbowl when in the battle of choke artists between he and elway,elway got him while he was a 9 pt underdog

 

think joe montana ever lost a game as a 9 pt favorite??

how about troy aikman??

no

those guys won

manning and favre on the other hand,while both have rings,both have some egg on their face which in my opinion keeps them out of the all time great discussions

now if manning comes back and wins this year or next then i would say he has matured into one of the greats

tom brady has 2 post season losses gentlemen

he has more superbowl wins than post season losses

 

before we dismiss him i suggest you find someone somewhere who can match that or has the potential to match those #s.

you give him time like we did this sunday and the pats may not lose this year.

 

i have a lot more respect for petyon manning this year than in years past because of the huge comeback last winter against us but im not of the mindset that hes the best qb ever,not now,not yet...

 

now our boy on the other hand??

[mtbykr]

Do you think Brady is one of the best ever?

 

I think he is and will be, but as with Peyton I prefer to wait till their career is over to completely evaluate him.

[MANNYHOF24]

I think Manning has more talent. However, Brady also hasn't had Harrison and Wayne to throw to his entire career. I think if you put Brady in the Colts offense the last 4-5 years, Brady puts up similar numbers. We will actually get a taste of what Brady can do this season as he finally has a great wide recieving core to work with. With the weapons that he had yesterday he looked almost unstopable. I know Branch, Givens and Brown made a nice trio, but lets be honest that is no Wayne, Harrison, Stokely. I think that has to be a huge consideration when comparing the two QB's.

[redsoxrules]

I think Manning has more talent. However' date=' Brady also hasn't had Harrison and Wayne to throw to his entire career. I think if you put Brady in the Colts offense the last 4-5 years, Brady puts up similar numbers. We will actually get a taste of what Brady can do this season as he finally has a great wide recieving core to work with. With the weapons that he had yesterday he looked almost unstopable. I know Branch, Givens and Brown made a nice trio, but lets be honest that is no Wayne, Harrison, Stokely. I think that has to be a huge consideration when comparing the two QB's.[/quote']

 

maybe manning is the reason wayne and harrison are good?

[rician blast]

If/When Favre overtakes Marino in some career stats it means he'll be equally overrated, that's all. Records of longevity are not the best measures of talent or worth...especially if you agree that it's what a guy does at crunch time that counts.

 

Emmett Smith, Payton, and Barry Sanders top the career rushing yards list...are any of them better than Jim Brown was?

 

Roger Clemens has the most CY's in history, is 2nd in career K's, 8th in wins, etc...but is he the guy you want to toe the rubber for ya in a crucial game?

[MANNYHOF24]

maybe manning is the reason wayne and harrison are good?

 

This is the most rediculus comment I have ever heard.

[redsoxrules]

This is the most rediculus comment I have ever heard.

 

really?

 

 

harrison started his career in 1996 and only started having remarkable season's when peyton started in 1998 . wayne has always been with peyton so we dont know how he would do with a different QB

 

its not a stupid comment .

[TheKilo]

I think Manning has more talent. However' date=' Brady also hasn't had Harrison and Wayne to throw to his entire career. I think if you put Brady in the Colts offense the last 4-5 years, Brady puts up similar numbers. We will actually get a taste of what Brady can do this season as he finally has a great wide recieving core to work with. With the weapons that he had yesterday he looked almost unstopable. I know Branch, Givens and Brown made a nice trio, but lets be honest that is no Wayne, Harrison, Stokely. I think that has to be a huge consideration when comparing the two QB's.[/quote']

 

By this same token don't you also have to consider how Manning would do with Brady's defense? And maybe that factors in to some playoff successes or failures?

[See Red]

really?

 

 

harrison started his career in 1996 and only started having remarkable season's when peyton started in 1998 . wayne has always been with peyton so we dont know how he would do with a different QB

 

its not a stupid comment .

 

I actually agree completely. I think Reggie Wayne is a product of Peyton Manning to an extent, to be honest, there's no doubt in my mind that he would struggle as a teams top option. I'm not saying he's not a good WR, but I don't think he's the top tier WR that Manning makes him look like. I also think Harrison is somewhat of a product. Again, not to say he's not very good, but he wouldn't put up numbers that compare with Jerry Rice elsewhere. Look at Edgerrin James in Arizona. Brandon Stokley was something of a scrub before he left Baltimore for Indianapolis.

 

I think the guys around him (especially the offensive line) benefit from Peyton Manning a great deal more than he benefits off of them.

[MANNYHOF24]

By this same token don't you also have to consider how Manning would do with Brady's defense? And maybe that factors in to some playoff successes or failures?

 

I think you are right. But I am not comparing playoff failures here, I am compairing pure statistics and saying that if Brady had been with Harison and Wayne, James, and that offensive scheme for a prolonged period I think that Brady's stats would be very comparable. If the Colts had the Patriots D for all of those years they probably would have won multiple superbowls. My last point is that I just would rather have Brady in the last two minutes of the superbowl down 6, and yes this is a bias because I have seen Brady do it so many times and he gets the job done almost everytime (last year against the colts was the only time I haven't seen him get it done) I think everyone deserves to fail at least once don't you?

[See Red]

I think you are right. But I am not comparing playoff failures here' date=' I am compairing pure statistics and saying that if Brady had been with Harison and Wayne, James, and that offensive scheme for a prolonged period I think that Brady's stats would be very comparable. If the Colts had the Patriots D for all of those years they probably would have won multiple superbowls. My last point is that I just would rather have Brady in the last two minutes of the superbowl down 6, and yes this is a bias because I have seen Brady do it so many times and he gets the job done almost everytime (last year against the colts was the only time I haven't seen him get it done) I think everyone deserves to fail at least once don't you?[/quote']

 

Please... you had Brady down by X amount of points, one final drive to tie the game twice in the postseason. The first time he threw an interception and got a mulligan, the next week he threw another interception. And by the way, all-time, you're nuts if you're not taking Montana or Elway over Brady there.

 

If Brady played for the Colts, his numbers wouldn't touch that of Peyton Manning. They wouldn't even be close. Peyton Manning basically acts as the co-offensive coordinator for that football team... if I remember hearing correctly, Peyton's given choices and he chooses the play.

 

By the way, how does Brady even figure into this conversation? I understand you guys are Patriots fans but the guy certainly isn't in the top 5 in League history, so can we just leave him out of this conversation?

[Mr Crunchy]

i was thinking about this last night and it occured to me that the game today is so much different than in years past.

you rarely see 2 back sets

you frequently see spread offenses

the rules have been changed to pump offense into the game and to protect the wide outs and qbs.

jaworski had brady palmer and peyton in the top 3,no specific order

the guy they often refer to as the best was johnny unitas but i saw him at the very very end of his career,perhaps an elder statesmen can chime in with some johnny u info.

i liked montana best ever

steve young doesnt have the long term #s but he had some incredible games

kenny stabler was never stopped in the last minute but again,the #s arent close

dan marino had the best #s ever without a running game a defense or wideouts

after duper and clayton,2 men who failed outside of miami,who did they give him??

oj mcduffie??

who were his backs??

tony nathan and jim jensen??

he had a good line but was never given the tools i feel

which brings us to brady

after the fred colemans and the reche caldwells have left the room we now have a decent corp of wideouts and what appears to be a deep threat in moss

brady will now put some #s up that rival mannings over the year

[Mr Crunchy]

By the way, how does Brady even figure into this conversation? I understand you guys are Patriots fans but the guy certainly isn't in the top 5 in League history, so can we just leave him out of this conversation

 

now why would you say this when in the same breath you take montana or the 3x loser elway??

brady won more titles than hes lost post season games.

montana won 4

brady will have 4 by february

montana had jerry rice

brady had troy brown

elway had terrell davis when he won

montana had roger craig

brady won with........antoine smith

 

hes still in his 20s

based on what ive seen last week hes a long way from being finished.

we can revisit this conversation in 10 years as brady starts putting up the meaningless regular season #s that seem so coveted here

its been my experiece that when a qb throws for 400 yrds he usually loses

[YazsTripleCrown]

Best big game QB I ever saw was Montanna. Before him Bradshaw. I could care less about their numbers. I know if a big game is being played. Those are the two guys I'd want behind the center. Staubach would be another. Manning is a great player and I love watching him but he still needs to take it up another level.

[MANNYHOF24]

Please... you had Brady down by X amount of points, one final drive to tie the game twice in the postseason. The first time he threw an interception and got a mulligan, the next week he threw another interception. And by the way, all-time, you're nuts if you're not taking Montana or Elway over Brady there.

 

If Brady played for the Colts, his numbers wouldn't touch that of Peyton Manning. They wouldn't even be close. Peyton Manning basically acts as the co-offensive coordinator for that football team... if I remember hearing correctly, Peyton's given choices and he chooses the play.

 

By the way, how does Brady even figure into this conversation? I understand you guys are Patriots fans but the guy certainly isn't in the top 5 in League history, so can we just leave him out of this conversation?

 

You don't think Brady has the ablity to call the play? Please, I think two years ago the Pats didn't even have an offensive coordinator, I bet Brady was calling plays then. Seriously when it comes to who you would rather give the football to Manning in a close situation over Brady you are nuts. I can think of way more games that Brady has lead a comeback, then the two times you are thinking of. What about superbowl 36? 38? Against the Dolphins in overtime in 04, aganist the Bears in 03? Brady has got it done countless times, way way more than he has failed. I bet guys like Montana and Elway failed as well a few times.

[See Red]

You don't think Brady has the ablity to call the play? Please' date=' I think two years ago the Pats didn't even have an offensive coordinator, I bet Brady was calling plays then. Seriously when it comes to who you would rather give the football to Manning in a close situation over Brady you are nuts. I can think of way more games that Brady has lead a comeback, then the two times you are thinking of. What about superbowl 36? 38? Against the Dolphins in overtime in 04, aganist the Bears in 03? Brady has got it done countless times, way way more than he has failed. I bet guys like Montana and Elway failed as well a few times.[/quote']

 

If you think the Pats didn't have an offensive coordinator, you're over your head in this one. Brady did not, nor has ever, had a 1/4 as much say in offensive play calling as Peyton Manning.

 

By the way, Crunchy, the Patriots have had pre-Brady playoff teams that were more star-studded than those Super Bowl losing Broncos teams. Just getting them to the Super Bowl is a credit to Elway. You may have heard of the drive?

[rician blast]

Best big game QB I ever saw was Montanna. Before him Bradshaw. I could care less about their numbers. I know if a big game is being played. Those are the two guys I'd want behind the center. Staubach would be another. Manning is a great player and I love watching him but he still needs to take it up another level.

 

Good point. It's tough to weed through all of the variables that lead to team success in an effort to pick out "the best" of all time at any position.

 

Staubach had great teams and coaching. So did Montana. So did Bradshaw. So has Brady for that matter...they win because they are a great organization, not just because they have a great QB.

 

Still, the bottom line is they win. I could not give a rat's ass about career numbers. Show me how a guy does at crunch time...and the three guys you mentioned above are right there as the best of all time when the game is on the line.

[redsoxrules]

my top 5 quarterback all time in no particular order

 

manning

montana

young

marino

staubach

[redsoxrules]

You don't think Brady has the ablity to call the play? Please' date=' I think two years ago the Pats didn't even have an offensive coordinator, I bet Brady was calling plays then. Seriously when it comes to who you would rather give the football to Manning in a close situation over Brady you are nuts. I can think of way more games that Brady has lead a comeback, then the two times you are thinking of. What about superbowl 36? 38? Against the Dolphins in overtime in 04, aganist the Bears in 03? Brady has got it done countless times, way way more than he has failed. I bet guys like Montana and Elway failed as well a few times.[/quote']

 

Brady had alot of help with his defense and a guy by the name of vinaterri . put manning in brady's place and he has 3 rings easily himself

[See Red]

my top 5 quarterback all time in no particular order

 

manning

montana

young

marino

staubach

 

I have to be honest, I'm a big Steve Young fan, but I'm not sure how he gets on the list ahead of Elway.

[redsoxrules]

I have to be honest' date=' I'm a big Steve Young fan, but I'm not sure how he gets on the list ahead of Elway.[/quote']

 

it was a close call but i went with young because of his career passer rating , verry acurate passer and his ability to run with the football . I find steve young is verry underated .

[Cityofchampions33]

I loved Elway, he would replace Staubach, and Young replaced by Brady in my top 5, though Terkenton is perhaps a bit more deserving.

[YazsTripleCrown]

I loved Elway' date=' he would replace Staubach, and Young replaced by Brady in my top 5[/quote']

 

 

Did you ever see Roger play? He was the one QB that I absolutely hated to see my team play against. There have been very few of those QB's over the years. Picking out the greatest ever is not something that will ever be done. The game changes from generation to generation. You have great QB's that in their time only threw 20 - 30 times a game, if that.

 

I have always been a fan of having a great running team. Very few teams take that approach any more. When I was growing up. You ran the ball till the Defense was tired and then opened up the passing game. Now it's all about the pass.

[MANNYHOF24]

All I am saying is that I would rather have Brady on my team, I think he is calmer under pressure and not much rattles him. By the way See Red how do you think a team that was 5-11 the previous year and started 0-2 went on to win a superbowl. If Brady had not come on to the field, the Pats would have probably won only five games that season. Thats the fact that people overlook, the Patriots were not by any means a quality team when Brady took over. They had Bledsoe who was an alright quarterback, but when Brady was inserted into the offense I think his presence and deminor helped give everyone on the team confidence. You can't teach that, you either have that quality or you don't. Let's be realistic Peyton Manning's playoff stats are not that good if you take out 2 monstrous games I believe in 04. He had something like 10 TD's and 0 picks in those two games, other than that he was mediocre at best through out his playoff career. He played especially poor in two of his four playoff games last season.

 

 

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD

---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------

1999 ten L,16-19 | 19 43 227 0 0 | 2 22 1

2000 mia L,17-23 | 17 32 194 1 0 | 1 -2 0

2002 nyj L,0-41 | 14 31 137 0 2 | 1 2 0

2003 den W,41-10 | 22 26 377 5 0 | 1 0 0

2003 kan W,38-31 | 22 30 304 3 0 | 1 -1 0

2003 nwe L,14-24 | 23 47 237 1 4 | 2 4 0

2004 den W,49-24 | 27 33 457 4 1 | 1 1 1

2004 nwe L,3-20 | 27 42 238 0 1 | 1 6 0

2005 pit L,18-21 | 22 38 290 1 0 | 0 0 0

2006 kan W,23-8 | 30 38 268 1 3 | 2 -2 0

2006 bal W,15-6 | 15 30 170 0 2 | 3 5 0

2006 nwe W,38-34 | 27 47 349 1 1 | 2 0 1

*2006 chi W,29-17 | 25 38 247 1 1 | 1 0 0

---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------

TOTAL | 290 475 3495 18 15 | 18 35 3

 

If you take out the 8 touchdowns and 0 picks, he is left with 10 Td's and 15 picks, not that great. You can't blame that on the bad defense either. Now compare these stats to Tom Brady's:

 

Year Opp Result | CMP ATT PYD PTD INT | RSH YD TD

---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------

2001 oak W,16-13 | 32 52 312 0 1 | 5 16 1

2001 pit W,24-17 | 12 18 115 0 0 | 2 3 0

*2001 stl W,20-17 | 16 27 145 1 0 | 1 3 0

2003 ten W,17-14 | 21 41 201 1 0 | 5 5 0

2003 ind W,24-14 | 22 37 237 1 1 | 5 1 0

*2003 car W,32-29 | 32 48 354 3 1 | 2 12 0

2004 ind W,20-3 | 18 27 144 1 0 | 4 6 1

2004 pit W,41-27 | 14 21 207 2 0 | 2 -2 0

*2004 phi W,24-21 | 23 33 236 2 0 | 1 -1 0

2005 jax W,28-3 | 15 27 201 3 0 | 2 9 0

2005 den L,13-27 | 20 36 341 1 2 | 1 -1 0

2006 nyj W,37-16 | 22 34 212 2 0 | 2 14 0

2006 sdg W,24-21 | 27 51 280 2 3 | 2 3 0

2006 ind L,34-38 | 21 34 232 1 1 | 4 1 0

---------------------+--------------------------+-----------------

TOTAL | 295 486 3217 20 9 | 38 69 2

 

It's not even close, Brady is a far supeior playoff performer, which is what I want my quarterback to be. I am not even going to bring up W/L totals because I know we are talking about pure stats here.