Who is the MVP of the 2007 Red Sox?

[TheKilo]

Red Sox Win Shares 2007

 

[table=Win Shares]Player|Win Shares

Ortiz| 25

Lowell| 23

Youkilis| 20

Pedroia| 18

Beckett| 18

Crisp| 16[/table]

 

According to this, it's Ortiz by a slight margin, however it is interesting to see Crisp so high up there (basically due to his 8.6 shares for fielding).

[.406]

2007 Season: Biggest Surprise

[redsoxrules]

I think crisp should win the GG

[TheKilo]

I think crisp should win the GG

 

He has the most defensive Win Shares out of any outfielder in the MLB, trailing only Troy Tulowitzki (9.2), Kenji Johjima (9.1), Russell Martin (9), and Chris Snyder (8.8) for all MLB players.

[example1]

Red Sox Win Shares 2007

 

[table=Win Shares]Player|Win Shares

Ortiz| 25

Lowell| 23

Youkilis| 20

Pedroia| 18

Beckett| 18

Crisp| 16[/table]

 

According to this, it's Ortiz by a slight margin, however it is interesting to see Crisp so high up there (basically due to his 8.6 shares for fielding).

 

Or how about Pedroia? Not for MVP, but in the "interesting to see so high up there" category. Offensively he's obviously been better than Crisp, but he's a full 2 Win Shares above him and is a rookie.

 

My vote goes to Ortiz. Lowell had a huge season; without him the Sox are not where they are today. However, Ortiz has come through--especially during the past few weeks--when it mattered most. He went from being part of a two-headed monster with Manny into basically holding down the center of the lineup by himself, still managed to carry the team.

 

After the All-Star Break:

.331/.440/.653/1.093, 19HR, 62 RBI

 

Even better, August and September (my own math):

.322/.462/.667/1.129

 

When the s*** hit the fan Papi continued producing. In a "down" year he's looking at 30+ HR and almost 120 RBI. He's my MVP.

[example1]

2007 Season: Biggest Surprise

 

"Why am I so surprised by this? Namely because I’m always a little bit skeptical of rookies coming up, and that month of April did not help out very much."

 

 

There was no reason to be skeptical of Pedroia, or Ellsbury, or Buchholz, or anyone else who comes up with a great track record of MiLB success. I'm glad everyone is jumping back on the rookie bandwagon, but this is a TREMENDOUS group of prospects that the Sox have. Ellsbury and Pedroia may look back on their first seasons as the beginning of a Sox dynasty, rather than the end of a good Sox run. These kids are unbelievable.

[example1]

He has the most defensive Win Shares out of any outfielder in the MLB' date=' trailing only Troy Tulowitzki (9.2), Kenji Johjima (9.1), Russell Martin (9), and Chris Snyder (8.8) for all MLB players.[/quote']

 

Just curious, but why do catchers get such high scores? What defensive attributes do they have that guys like, say, Varitek do not? Is it that they throw out more runners, give up fewer passed balls (not likely)? Or is it more heavily weighted to the catchers due to their high number of opportunities?

[TheKilo]

Or how about Pedroia? Not for MVP' date=' but in the "interesting to see so high up there" category. Offensively he's obviously been better than Crisp, but he's a full 2 Win Shares above him and is a rookie.[/quote']

 

The fact he's so much better than Crisp offensively is why I didn't feel it was so surprising. Anyone who's watched the Sox this year has to feel Pedroia's been one of the top 5 players easily.

 

My vote goes to Ortiz. Lowell had a huge season; without him the Sox are not where they are today. However, Ortiz has come through--especially during the past few weeks--when it mattered most. He went from being part of a two-headed monster with Manny into basically holding down the center of the lineup by himself, still managed to carry the team.

 

You can't really say that Lowell has had a huge season and then turn around and say Ortiz carried the lineup by himself. Ortiz has had a great year, and I do think that he's the MVP, but defense counts too. Lowell has 5.5 Win Shares on defense, while Ortiz has 0.1. Seems to me Lowell's overall game has put him on par with Ortiz's overall game this year, IMO.

 

After the All-Star Break:

.331/.440/.653/1.093, 19HR, 62 RBI

 

Even better, August and September (my own math):

.322/.462/.667/1.129

 

When the s*** hit the fan Papi continued producing. In a "down" year he's looking at 30+ HR and almost 120 RBI. He's my MVP.

 

The only thing Ortiz is down in this year is home runs. OBP, OPS, XBH, look to all be new career highs for Ortiz.

 

But I tend to agree, I just think Lowell gets more consideration because he plays defense and is having such a consistent offensive season.

[TheKilo]

Just curious' date=' but why do catchers get such high scores? What defensive attributes do they have that guys like, say, Varitek do not? Is it that they throw out more runners, give up fewer passed balls (not likely)? Or is it more heavily weighted to the catchers due to their high number of opportunities?[/quote']

 

I have no real idea, but I do know Snyder and Martin have reps as fantastic defensive catchers.

 

Formula for Win Shares

 

Which leads us to the next, most complicated step: allocating fielding Win Shares to fielding positions, and then to individual fielders. The calculations differ for each position. Essentially, James has selected four defensive statistics to evaluate positions. Here they are by position, listed in order of importance:

 

* Catchers: Caught Stealing, Errors, Passed Balls and Sacrifice Hits Allowed

* First Basemen: Plays Made, Errors, Arm Rating and Errors by third basemen and shortstops

* Second Basemen: Double Plays, Assists, Errors and Putouts

* Shortstops: Assists, Double Plays, Errors and Putouts

* Third Basemen: Assists, Errors, Sacrifice Hits Allowed and Double Plays

* Outfielders: Putouts, Team DER, Arm Elements and Assists and Errors

[das11209]

So - did you guys see Youk as the third most valuable player in this team?

 

I must say - I expected that though.

[TheKilo]

So - did you guys see Youk as the third most valuable player in this team?

 

I must say - I expected that though.

 

Keep in mind this is just one way to measure performance.

 

Say, if we to use VORP:

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/team_audit.php?stats&team=BOS

 

[table="VORP]Player|VORP

Ortiz| 79.9

Lowell| 46.2

Ramirez| 35.2

Pedroia| 34.9

Youkilis| 30.9

Varitek|20.9[/table]

[Mr Crunchy]

youk has sucked since july

lets not try to shine a sneaker

 

this f***ing guy thinks he can bitch cry and make faces every day at the umpires as they ring him up watching belt high fastballs cruise on by....

memo to kevin youkillis

youre not good enuff to behave this way

last year he tailed way off

this year too.

christ

there was a movement to make him an allstar with his 1st half production

how bad is he banged up

did the beef he put on over the last seasons wear down his body in the summer heat

 

this year he is down in bbs runs and extra base hits

his power#s have improved but not to the point where he would be considered a power hitter...

his 2nd half collapse has a lot to do with our mediocrity

maybe if he was more aggressive at the plate he would have better power#s because this man takes more called strike 3s than the little girls who piss themselves playing softball in 2nd grade...and then the whining and the crying and the outrage and the temerity of these guys to call him out....

kevin youkilis is pushing his maximum potential and i am not questioning his tuffness or commitment....

only his talent

 

david ortiz once again has proved himself to be a personal juggernaut on offense and is the man i want to see up with the money on the table

but this teams mvp is mike lowell my friends

[Paradisecity]

All i know is that it is NOT Jason Varitek.

 

Honestly, I was upset when they walked Drew last night- one thing he CAN do is hit a sac fly. Varitek, for some reason, is absolutely awful at it. There are only a couple guys on our team that seem to understand the concept- Manny, Drew, Lugo are all good at it. Youk, Tek, Ortiz, and Pedroia are very bad at it, and don't seem to get its importance in one close situations.

 

Or maybe the manager doesn't

 

Youk has sucked since July.

[das11209]

 

Youk has sucked since July.

 

but he still gives his 110.5% and he has dirt in his hat and he gives those looks to the umpire when he strikes out.

 

 

Sorry - could not resist a kilo impression.

[das11209]

All i know is that it is NOT Jason Varitek.

 

 

Sometime back I suggested that it will be really hard to watch Tek for another year as we do not have a replacement in place and we should go after Posada for a year putting Tek in bench. That did not go so well with the RSN, It is a sacrilage to have doubts about the captain in the nation - very similar to questioning Jeter in the Yankee team.

 

Varitek has been horrible offensively since ASB of 2005. In the field - he can't throw my grandmother out if she tries to steal second. But he has even sucked what his intangible asset used to be - developing young pitchers and pitch calling. For now he is safe because the bench has great players like Cash and Belli.

[rician blast]

last year he tailed way off

this year too.

 

maybe if he was more aggressive at the plate he would have better power#s because this man takes more called strike 3s than the little girls who piss themselves playing softball in 2nd grade...and then the whining and the crying and the outrage and the temerity of these guys to call him out....

 

kevin youkilis is pushing his maximum potential and i am not questioning his tuffness or commitment....

only his talent

 

 

 

Youk reminds me of Daubach a bit...solid start...then the slide.

That said, Youk has more overall talent...but not as much as he apparently thinks he has.

He comes up with bases juiced last night, me and my kid both predicted "check swing, caught looking" and he didn't dissapoint.

The fkn check swing stuff is starting to piss me off...pay attention folks, he does it more than anyone I can remember recently. And that tells me he is overmatched.

 

I like Youk, don't get me wrong. But I too am growing tired of his act.

[schillingouttheks]

but he still gives his 110.5% and he has dirt in his hat and he gives those looks to the umpire when he strikes out.

 

 

Sorry - could not resist a kilo impression.

 

You do know that Kilo is mocking people when he posts that, right? I can't tell if you think he's serious or not from your post.

[das11209]

You do know that Kilo is mocking people when he posts that' date=' right? I can't tell if you think he's serious or not from your post.[/quote']

 

I understand that - he is hillarious.

[redsoxrules]

Vtek since the break is hitting 226 and is striking out every 2.95 AB , just awfull

 

youk is at 232 since the break and he is striking out alot too at every 3.5 AB

 

 

can drew play first base? cause at this point the lineup i would like to see in the post season is

 

pedroia

ellsbury

ortiz

manny

drew

lowell

crisp

vtek

lugo

 

Oh and ortiz is definately the MVP of this team , he leads the major in OPS at 1059 . i find it hilarious that writters and broadcasters are saying that ortiz is having an off year . f*** id take his current numbers for the next 5 years no problem

[Gom]

Youk has too much motion in his swing. He is extremely vulnerable to change of pace.

 

I think Lowell is your MVP. Gold glove defense, picked up protecting Ortiz, great overall numbers. Without Lowell in the lineup, Ortiz would have been walked all season. Remember who's been protecting Lowell all year. Drew. Big difference fellas.

[TheKilo]

Vtek since the break is hitting 226 and is striking out every 2.95 AB , just awfull

 

youk is at 232 since the break and he is striking out alot too at every 3.5 AB

 

 

can drew play first base? cause at this point the lineup i would like to see in the post season is

 

pedroia

ellsbury

ortiz

manny

drew

lowell

crisp

vtek

lugo

 

Oh and ortiz is definately the MVP of this team , he leads the major in OPS at 1059 . i find it hilarious that writters and broadcasters are saying that ortiz is having an off year . f*** id take his current numbers for the next 5 years no problem

 

I wouldn't bet on Drew playing first in the playoffs.

 

 

Ortiz is probably the choice, but it's not a "definite" by any means. You have to factor in Lowell's defense.

[redsoxrules]

I wouldn't bet on Drew playing first in the playoffs.

 

i'm not , i was just saying ......

 

 

Ortiz is probably the choice' date=' but it's not a "definite" by any means. You have to factor in Lowell's defense.[/quote']

 

 

 

lowell is definately a close second , I had them co-MVP a month or so ago but with the recent play of ortiz I put him on top fop this team

[.406]

J.D. Drew - Disappointment of the Year

[schillingouttheks]

J.D. Drew - Disappointment of the Year

 

 

Yeah, let's continue to rag on the guy who's been one of the biggest pieces, behind Ortiz, to the Sox' success in September. Let's also continue to beat a dead horse.

 

Ridiculous. Only in Boston will fans find time to focus on the biggest disappointment of the year on the best team in baseball.

[riverside sluggers]

Seriously... Drew is one of the best hitters for the Sox

 

I loved hearing at the game last night is that a new chant is starting up. As is it is with Youkilis, Yooooouk. Each time Drew had an AB, catch, the f***ing homerun , I would be hearing Drewwww

 

The 2007 Sox MVP well thats Mr. Mike Lowell

[schillingouttheks]

I loved hearing at the game last night is that a new chant is starting up. As is it is with Youkilis' date=' Yooooouk. Each time Drew had an AB, catch, the f***ing homerun , I would be hearing Drewwww[/quote']

 

It's too bad that there's even the possibility of him confusing "Drewwww" with the boos from the idiots who would boo him earlier in the year.

[Mr Crunchy]

if jd drew hits 359 in october as he did in sept all the misery will be forgotten

if he goes into a slide or limps off the field with a strained uterus then they will crucify his ass

i think hes coming on and it appears that he was actually having fun this weekend

[Beckett95]

mike lowell