2008 Red Sox Discussion

[das11209]

stop dreaming example. The Mets had a great offense. Their problem was pitching. And with Lastings Milledge taking a step forward this season' date=' I highly doubt they would send over anything of value for Manny. They need their young pitchers cause their pitching sucks, and they dont need to add offense. If you want to speculate, you could speculate that Curt could be pitching in NY for the Mutts next yr. I see that as a very real possibility.[/quote']

 

Why is this a bad speculation? I think Mets can use one of the best hitters in our time along with Beltran. Delgado broke his hand in the last game and he had a really poor season. Yes Milledge showed progress in his development but I am sure Mets can replace Shawn Green with Manny in the outfield.

 

It will be a great trade for the Mets. Problem is who are they going to give up that Boston can use. I really like Wright with our vacancy in 3rd base - but we are not going to get him.

[Beckett95]

LINEUP

C—Varitek (last year in Boston?)

1B—Youk (don’t be surprised at an upgrade here)

2B—Pedroia

SS—Lugo (watch out for Jed Lowrie)

3B—Lowell (re-signs for 2-3 year deal)

LF—Manny (puts up good numbers in his last year in Boston)

CF—Ellsbury (takes over as leadoff hitter)

RF—Drew (plays like he did in September)

DH—Ortiz

 

BENCH

Moss/Carter/Hinske (I think carter gets another year in AAA, and moss stays if he or kielty can learn to play 1B)

Cora/Lowrie

Kielty (RH bat of the bench)

Catcher (mirrabelli’s done, would like Castro, but could see Ausmus as an option, Cash will be at spring training)

 

ROTATION

Beckett

Dice-K

Buchholz

Lester

Wake (might see an upgrade here)

 

BULLPEN

Papelbon

Okajima

Delcarmen

Hansen (as of now, hav him here, but could see a FA)

Lopez/Breslow

Tavarez/Snyder

Crisp traded for a reliever (should be able to get a solid MRP for him)

[riverside sluggers]

Here's an article by Gordon Edes praising Varitek's production at the plate. He then goes on to say that they have found the man to catch for the Sox after 2008 (contract ends), and that will still be Jason Varitek

 

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2007/10/11/catching_on__and_on/

 

EDIT: Beckett95, Im not so sure Hinske will be back. He'll hit free agency for the first time in his career. Surely he'll be looking for the bigger payday and see if a team will let him at least compete for a starting job. And Im starting to hear rumblings that the Sox will not pick up the option year on Tavarez (Gordon Edes notebook couple weeks ago)

[jacksonianmarch]

Varitek parlayed 2 career yrs into a 4 yr deal. He earned that deal in only one of his yrs with next yr most likely coming with equal or worse production to this one. I dont think there is anyone who will argue with the fact that he has become somewhat of a liability at home plate as well. The sox tried to grow their own replacement but Shoppach and Kottaras have been major disappointments and the rest of the sox crop (with Weeden leading the way) is way too far away. The sox shouldnt jump the gun to re-up Vtek, they should look outside the organization for a replacement.

[VA Sox Fan]

Varitek parlayed 2 career yrs into a 4 yr deal. He earned that deal in only one of his yrs with next yr most likely coming with equal or worse production to this one. I dont think there is anyone who will argue with the fact that he has become somewhat of a liability at home plate as well. The sox tried to grow their own replacement but Shoppach and Kottaras have been major disappointments and the rest of the sox crop (with Weeden leading the way) is way too far away. The sox shouldnt jump the gun to re-up Vtek' date=' they should look outside the organization for a replacement.[/quote']

 

How has he become a liability at home plate?

[Mr Crunchy]

im thinking his batting avg and decreasing power#s are what hes refering to

compared to posada this guy is johnny bench defensively

[TheKilo]

All I know is Kottaras rakes outside of Pawtucket.

[TheKilo]

How has he become a liability at home plate?

 

Do you watch Jason Varitek play?

[VA Sox Fan]

Do you watch Jason Varitek play?

 

Yes I do. He definitely struggled in the 2nd half of the season. Did you read the article?

[jacksonianmarch]

Varitek has struggled for 2 yrs now. Something that doesnt work well for a catcher crossing the 35 plateau.

 

And in terms of Posada, remember, I am alright with him leaving. I have no doubt that he will not continue what he did this yr. No way he even hits over .280 next season. Let some other team make the mistake of a 4 yr deal and give us some compensation before he Mussina's us. (Definition of the term Mussina: Have a career yr in your walk yr then totally suck once the ink is dry on a new contract).

[jacksonianmarch]

All I know is Kottaras rakes outside of Pawtucket.

 

that is just a coincidental split for one season. The overall is what matters. Now if you told me he rakes against lefties or against righties, then you might have a point if you proposed a platoon. But raking outside of a neutral park (in terms of offensive enhancement/detraction) doesnt tell you that much. Kottaras went from being a real prospect to a backup prospect if he is lucky in one yr.

[CrespoBlows]

 

oh and wich i hope would happen but wont would be to pick up Arod and bonds

 

1. Ellsbury, CF

2. Pedroia, 2B

3. Bonds, DH

4. Rodriguez, 3B

5. Ortiz, 1B

6. Ramirez, LF

7. Drew, RF

8. Varitek, C

9. Lugo, SS

 

[TheKilo]

that is just a coincidental split for one season. The overall is what matters. Now if you told me he rakes against lefties or against righties' date=' then you might have a point if you proposed a platoon. But raking outside of a neutral park (in terms of offensive enhancement/detraction) doesnt tell you that much. Kottaras went from being a real prospect to a backup prospect if he is lucky in one yr.[/quote']

 

Keep in mind the guy is still learning the position, he hasn't been a catcher for very long. I have confidence he cam move up in the ranks with another season in AAA. The talent is there, he just needs to put it all together.

[redsoxrules]

1. Ellsbury, CF

2. Pedroia, 2B

3. Bonds, DH

4. Rodriguez, 3B

5. Ortiz, 1B

6. Ramirez, LF

7. Drew, RF

8. Varitek, C

9. Lugo, SS

 

 

that lineup would score easily over 1000 runs

[das11209]

I have already been labelled here as a Tek hater - so I will just say this. If Theo gives another captainsque deal to him beyond 2008 - I will commit harakiri.

 

Jason is still good catching the ball - and that's about it. He can't bat , can't throw, asks for too many fastballs from pitcher etc. etc.

 

Go ahead and bash me - I think he is a liability in this team. He is not Youk that I can at least argue he is cost effective.

[TheKilo]

I have already been labelled here as a Tek hater - so I will just say this. If Theo gives another captainsque deal to him beyond 2008 - I will commit harakiri.

 

Jason is still good catching the ball - and that's about it. He can't bat , can't throw, asks for too many fastballs from pitcher etc. etc.

 

Go ahead and bash me - I think he is a liability in this team. He is not Youk that I can at least argue he is cost effective.

 

Join the f***ing club.

 

edit - A 2 year deal would be OK with me. 2 years, 20-22 million.

[riverside sluggers]

Varitek parlayed 2 career yrs into a 4 yr deal. He earned that deal in only one of his yrs with next yr most likely coming with equal or worse production to this one. I dont think there is anyone who will argue with the fact that he has become somewhat of a liability at home plate as well. The sox tried to grow their own replacement but Shoppach and Kottaras have been major disappointments and the rest of the sox crop (with Weeden leading the way) is way too far away. The sox shouldnt jump the gun to re-up Vtek' date=' they should look outside the organization for a replacement.[/quote']

 

How can Shoppach be labeled a major disappointment? He was packaged in the trade to get Coco Crisp out of Cleveland. He has been a very good hitting backup catcher, he wouldve still helped the Sox if kept aboard.

[BSN07]

1B- Youk

2B-Pedroia

SS-Lugo

3B- I say they atleast kick the tires on AROD, they offer a 2yr deal to Lowell, which he turns down and goes to the NL team the will givve him 3 yrs/36M. Maybe Youkilis if a FA 1B is signed or Carter shows somekind of D at 1B.

LF-Manny, Unless AROD is signed or they get a 3 prospect deal for him I think hes back next yr.

CF-Ellsbury, I think he has showed he can be a ML contributor full time. He has the skills to be a perrenial all star. I think Crisp gets traded,not sure for what tho.

RF-Drew

 

 

Beckett,Matsuzaka,Lester,Wake(if not retired),FA signing. Believe it or not Idon't see Buccholz in the starting 5 out of ST. His stuff is great and ML worthy but his arm is young and not able to take the strain of 180 innings plus. Id say he would be a mid to late season call up, maybe like Lester this yr at the fastest or be the 1st option for an injury fill in. I think Schilling leaves for the NL as well.

 

Paps,Okajihma,Delcarmen,Lopez is the start of the BP, Theo will throw the regular s*** against the wall and see what sticks to fill in the rest.

 

 

Getting back to Varitek. Ya hes not great at the plate, but I don't think the Sox really count on anything out of him. His main objective is with the pitchers, game planning and defense, anything Offensivley is a bonus. I think we do need to look for the Catcher of the the future tho, my 1st choice would be Mauer. I know big dreams but honestlet Minny can't sign everyone of there young guys, so he might become available.

[riverside sluggers]

Catcher- Jason Varitek

Backup-- Rod Barajas (experince catching knuckleball, upgrade over both Mirabelli and Cash with the bat)

 

1st Base- Kevin Youkilis

Backup-- Chris Carter

 

2nd Base- Dustin Pedroia

 

Shortstop-- Julio Lugo

Backup-- Alex Cora

 

3rd Base-- Mike Lowell (2 year wont do it, he'll be looking for at least 3 years. Hell he deserves it. What Im worried about is Arod opting out and signing with another team, Yankees come calling to Lowell with a blank check)

 

Left Field- Manny Ramirez

 

Center Field- Jacoby Ellsbury

 

Right Field- J.D. Drew

Backup-- Bobby Kielty (resign him to a 1 or 2 year deal. Gives the Sox a solid lefty hitting bat off the bench, good clubhouse guy.)

 

Starting Rotation

Josh Beckett

Daisuke Matsuzaka

Carlos Silva (Not much is talked about him hitting free agency. In the AL he has made himself into a reliable starter, and just 28 years old. I wouldnt mind a 3 year deal at $7-10 per. Buchholz will be in Pawtucket as solid insurance as they come)

Jon Lester

Tim Wakefield

 

Bullpen

Long Relief- Kyle Snyder

*Lefty Specialist- Javier Lopez/Craig Breslow

Middle Relief- Bryan Corey

Craig Hansen/FA signing

Set up- Manny Delcarmen

Hideki Okajima

Closer- Jonathan Papelbon

[jacksonianmarch]

How can Shoppach be labeled a major disappointment? He was packaged in the trade to get Coco Crisp out of Cleveland. He has been a very good hitting backup catcher' date=' he wouldve still helped the Sox if kept aboard.[/quote']

 

Shoppach was "thrown-in" to the deal with Cleveland so you could get Bard.

[example1]

1B- Youk

2B-Pedroia

SS-Lugo

3B- I say they atleast kick the tires on AROD, they offer a 2yr deal to Lowell, which he turns down and goes to the NL team the will givve him 3 yrs/36M. Maybe Youkilis if a FA 1B is signed or Carter shows somekind of D at 1B.

LF-Manny, Unless AROD is signed or they get a 3 prospect deal for him I think hes back next yr.

CF-Ellsbury, I think he has showed he can be a ML contributor full time. He has the skills to be a perrenial all star. I think Crisp gets traded,not sure for what tho.

RF-Drew

 

 

Beckett,Matsuzaka,Lester,Wake(if not retired),FA signing. Believe it or not Idon't see Buccholz in the starting 5 out of ST. His stuff is great and ML worthy but his arm is young and not able to take the strain of 180 innings plus. Id say he would be a mid to late season call up, maybe like Lester this yr at the fastest or be the 1st option for an injury fill in. I think Schilling leaves for the NL as well.

 

 

No Buchholz in the rotation, huh? You're going to go with Lester as your 3? Maybe that's how your team would go, but I'd be willing to bet that Clay Buchholz is a starter next year. Did you WATCH his starts? Unless they're planning on having him just sit on a beach next spring he should be pitching for the Big Sox. He has done everything he needs to do at the AAA and AA levels and his stuff is probably as good, if not better than Dice-Ks.

 

Who is the FA starter they're hoping to land? Here's a list I found:

 

Starting pitchers

Tony Armas (30) - $5MM mutual option for '08

Kris Benson (33) - $7.5MM club option for '08

Paul Byrd (37) - $8MM club option for '08

Shawn Chacon (30)

Roger Clemens (46)

Matt Clement (33)

Bartolo Colon (35)

Josh Fogg (31)

Casey Fossum (30)

Freddy Garcia (32)

Tom Glavine (42)

Livan Hernandez (33)*

Jason Jennings (29)

Joe Kennedy (29)

Byung-Hyun Kim (29)

Brian Lawrence (32)

Jon Lieber (38)

Kyle Lohse (29)

Rodrigo Lopez (32)

Greg Maddux (42) - $8.75MM player option or $11MM club option for '08

Eric Milton (32)

Tomo Ohka (32)

Russ Ortiz (34)

Odalis Perez (31) - $9MM club option for '08

Andy Pettitte (36) - $16MM player option for '08

Joel Pineiro (29)

Kenny Rogers (43)

Curt Schilling (41)

Carlos Silva (29)

Julian Tavarez (35) - $3.85MM club option for '08

John Thomson (34)

Brett Tomko (35) - $4.5MM mutual option for '08

Steve Trachsel (37) - $4.75MM club option for '08

Koji Uehara (33)

Jeff Weaver (31)

David Wells (45)

Kip Wells (31)

Randy Wolf (31) - $9MM club option for '08

Jamey Wright (34)

Jaret Wright (32)

 

Lots of multi-year crap if you ask me. It's a list of ineffective chumps. Buchholz is more valuable (and better) than any of these guys. Buchholz SHOULD be starting game 4 of the ALCS this year, but they wisely let him rest. He's good enough to do that without a doubt; I said that before he threw a no-hitter.

 

 

Paps,Okajihma,Delcarmen,Lopez is the start of the BP, Theo will throw the regular s*** against the wall and see what sticks to fill in the rest.

 

 

Getting back to Varitek. Ya hes not great at the plate, but I don't think the Sox really count on anything out of him. His main objective is with the pitchers, game planning and defense, anything Offensivley is a bonus. I think we do need to look for the Catcher of the the future tho, my 1st choice would be Mauer. I know big dreams but honestlet Minny can't sign everyone of there young guys, so he might become available.

 

:lol:

 

Do you know someone in Minnesota? Mauer, who is from Minneapolis and has been a star there since high school, has 3 years left on his contract and will undoubtedly be approached about an extension. He's a good one to keep your eye on, but he won't become a Red Sox for another few years at the earliest.

[riverside sluggers]

I was just going by the growing consensus of Boston sports writers that Buchholz will start the year in Pawtucket. Hopefully that isnt the case and we could see a 5 man rotation of Beckett, Dice-K, Clay, Lester, Wakefield

[jacksonianmarch]

I was just going by the growing consensus of Boston sports writers that Buchholz will start the year in Pawtucket. Hopefully that isnt the case and we could see a 5 man rotation of Beckett' date=' Dice-K, Clay, Lester, Wakefield[/quote']

 

It might be what is best for him. Same with the yankee writers talking about Joba starting the yr in AAA. For Buch, he came down with a "tired shoulder" which could be anything and that most likely scared the brass. And for Joba, he hasnt started a game since July, so he needs to be handled closely as well. When you have talent like these guys, you can never be too careful.

[RobZombie]

The list of free agent pitchers is definitely a list of suspects and projects. What the Sox really need is a free agent pitcher who isn't expensive enough to be a complete burden if he fails. For instance, Theo took a chance on four such relievers this off-season in Donnely, Pinerio, Okajima, and Romero. Donnely gave them some good innings early in the season before getting hurt, Romero was too inconsistent to stay around, Piniero was a huge failure and Okajima a huge success Someone on that list is going to have a good season next year.

 

I think that Lester and Bucholtz are going to be very good next year, but I'm not sure enough to just give them the ball without any other plan.

 

Here are a few candidates other than Schilling.

 

#1 Colon-

 

Unclear of what he would want but at the end of the season looked very good with a fastball at 94. He had a couple of games to show what he's capable with when he's right. Won't be as expensive as Schilling and because he has a bigger fastball has more upside.

 

#2 Joe Kennedy-

 

Kennedy's redeeming characteristic is that he can get ground balls. He's 28 and sometimes that's the age when pitchers start to figure it out and have a few good peak seasons. I also think that pitching at Coors can have an effect on you that can hurt you for a couple of seasons. Won't cost much, and if he fails, its not a big deal.

 

#3 Koji Uheraha-

 

Maybe the greatest pitcher Japanese pitcher of his generation. But now he's in his early 30s and he's going to get a long-term deal. Probably of all these guys the least risky, but you can't sign him to a one year deal and hope for the best.

 

#4 Jason Jennings-

 

Jennings is another talented guy possibly ruined by pitching in Colorado pre-humidor. Still he's only 28, and the Sox have always liked him. Peripherals weren't bad this year other than a .8 GF/FB ratio which was much worse than his career average. If you do that at Minute Maid and don't strike people out at a high rate, you are going to get killed.

 

#5 Odalis Perez-

 

Another guy the Sox have liked in the past and he does have a good past. He's likely more suited to being a long-man at this point, but still can possibly discover his old glory.

 

#6 Joel Piniero-

 

Maybe he learned something a couple of things working for the law firm of LaRussa and Duncan. When he was here, he didn't get a chance to pitch consistently, and when you don't throw that many innings it can be tough to stay sharp. Still a guy with an excellent past, who is only 29.

 

#7 Randy Wolf-

 

Probably had the best performance in the majors of anyone in this group. GB/FB ratio was higher than its ever been. In addition, K/9 about where it was during his heyday in Philly. If he could duplicate what he did last year in Boston, I think we'd be ecstatic.

 

I guarantee you that at least one of these seven guys will go somewhere and have a pretty decent year next year.

[zackredsox]

Off-Season Projections

1. Mike Lowell will sign with the Yankees and A-rod will sign with us

2. Schilling will leave and go back to the Phillies

3. Buchholz will take Schillings spot in the rotation

4. Red Sox sign Keith Foulke to a one-year half million deal

5. Coco is traded to Athletics for a minor league prospect

6. Jacoby takes CoCo's spot in center

7. Red Sox sign Francisco Cordero

 

 

25-Man Roster Projections

LINEUP

C—Varitek

1B—Youkilis

2B—Pedroia

SS—Lugo

3B—Rodriguez

LF—Manny

CF—Ellsbury

RF—Drew

DH—Ortiz

 

BENCH

Eric Hinske (Hinske's last full season with the Sox)

Alex Cora

Bobby Kielty

Doug Mirrabelli

 

ROTATION

Josh Beckett (2008 Cy Young award winner)

Daisuke Matsuzaka

Clay Buchholz

Jon Lester

Tim Wakefield

 

BULLPEN

Jonathan Papelbon

Hideki Okajima

Francisco Cordero

Manny Delcarmen

Javier Lopez

Craig Hansen

Keith Foulke

 

 

Season Projections

1. Manny will put up some of his best numbers of his career with 43 HRs and a 1.106 OPS.

2. Lugo and Drew will both put up better numbers, both having an AVG over .270.

3. Wakefield will be on the DL agian towards mid season because of shoulder problems.

4. Dice-K will lead the AL in strikeouts.

5. Josh Beckett and Dice-K will be in the Cy Young race.

6. Red Sox will lead the Majors in bullpen ERA.

7. Ellsbury, Dice-K, and Pedroia will all win a Golden Glove award.

[CrespoBlows]

I guarantee you the Red Sox will not sign Francisco Cordero, unless Papelbon is ticketed back to the rotation.

[Cocos Disciples]

Lol at zackredsox. DiceK will win a gold glove? What kind of a prediction is that?

[Beckett95]

 

Season Projections

1. Manny will put up some of his best numbers of his career with 43 HRs and a 1.106 OPS.

2. Lugo and Drew will both put up better numbers, both having an AVG over .270.

3. Wakefield will be on the DL agian towards mid season because of shoulder problems.

4. Dice-K will lead the AL in strikeouts.

5. Josh Beckett and Dice-K will be in the Cy Young race.

6. Red Sox will lead the Majors in bullpen ERA.

7. Ellsbury, Dice-K, and Pedroia will all win a Golden Glove award.

 

1. no, hes getting older and want be as close to as productive as hes been in the playoffs. if he plays a whole year, which wont happen, id say 35 HR at most.

2. i think they will to, as long as they both stick around next year

3. he'll be on the DL for something

4. he'll be top 5, i dont no about him leading the league

5. yes

6. no, unless they make some changes. Okajima's ERA will be around 3.50 next year

7. Ellsbury and Pedroia will be a long shot, Dice-K has no shot

[riverside sluggers]

Francisco Cordeo will sign with a team thats in need of a closer. Im thinking if not resigning with Milwaukee, he'll be an Atlanta Brave come opening day

 

And zack as I said before, Eric Hinkse will be a free agent this offseason. The best in house candidate to take over his role would be newly acquired Chris Carter. Or if the Sox want to go the veteran route, why not take a shot at Sean Casey?

[BSN07]

No Buchholz in the rotation' date=' huh? You're going to go with Lester as your 3? Maybe that's how your team would go, but I'd be willing to bet that Clay Buchholz is a starter next year. [b']Did you WATCH his starts?[/b] Unless they're planning on having him just sit on a beach next spring he should be pitching for the Big Sox. He has done everything he needs to do at the AAA and AA levels and his stuff is probably as good, if not better than Dice-Ks.

 

 

 

Yes I watched each of his starts. I never said he wasn't good enought, I said his stuff was great and def MLB worthy. He could start next season no doubt, I'm saying he is the Franchise's biggest pitching prospect( Probably ML #1 pitching prospect) and the front office is going to baby him a little. Especially since he had a tired shoulder. He went to the bp for a few weeks and still had a tired shoulder. His arm is not ready for a full major league season yet. This is the only reason I don't see him in the SR next season out of camp. He needs another season atleast to build hi stamina. I rather have him for the long haul then get a Mark Prior on our hands.

 

 

Hes only what 23? Let him build more arm this season, and have a more polished stronger arm Buccholz for 09.