July 20th vs. Chicago

[riverside sluggers]

Could Damon have pitched in 2006?

[a700hitter]

Could Damon have pitched in 2006?

Could he have been worse than jason 'the Ultimate Loser" Johnson? Probably not, especially in light of the fact that he lost every time he pitched. Corey Lidle might have won a few of those games...no?

[riverside sluggers]

I think its moot about Damon. The only thing he wouldve done is help us not be in 3rd place. The playoffs? No. That pitching staff even with Lidle, may he rest in peace, still wouldve been jack squat

[a700hitter]

I think its moot about Damon. The only thing he wouldve done is help us not be in 3rd place. The playoffs? No. That pitching staff even with Lidle' date=' may he rest in peace, still wouldve been jack squat[/quote']Well you are just blind to what he adds to a lineup when he is playing well. Someone on the boards said that the Yankees play .750 this year when he scores. He scored a lot last year. Subtract what he added to the yanks and ad that to the Sox and I think we have a double digit lead before the injuries hit, and that might have been enough to weather the storm. Certainly, without Damon, the Yankees would have gone nowhere. Their lineup was decimated with injuries far worse and longer than ours. Only Damon and Jeter kept them in the race. Everyone else was on the shelf: Matsui, Sheffield. I guess you are forgetting the blind optimism you had about last year's team at this time last year. I didn't. I was one of the few sounding the alarm bells.

 

Edit: We are stronger this year with Dice K and Okajima, but the Yankees are stronger despit Damon's underperfomance, because they have Matsui back and they have Pettitte and Clemens. The warning signs are ther again, but this year's team extended the lead. last years did not. This year I expect reinforcements. If we don't get them, don't be surprised if we see a 2006 repeat.

[riverside sluggers]

Yes Im blind, Damon the iron man himself can revive a pitching staff.

 

http://oneyearbible.blogs.com/photos/uncategorized/jesus_heals___1.jpg

Matt Clement: Whats this? Its the touch of the chosen one, Johnny Damon. My God my shoulder has been healed, Im back to myself! Damon spread your healing touch to the other pitchers in our staff and we will storm through the playoffs!

[ORS]

A .750 team when he scores a run? What a s*** stat. First of all, the correlation is weak (.39), and even if you had correlation it doesn't mean causation.

[a700hitter]

A .750 team when he scores a run? What a s*** stat. First of all' date=' the correlation is weak (.39), and even if you had correlation it doesn't mean causation.[/quote']Lots of fancy words and concepts. Here's an easy concept for you to chew on. The Red Sox scoring of runs at an unprecedented rate from 2003-2005 was correlated with the departure of Johnny Damon. Causation? Yes, in large part. Give me some fancy stats or concepts to get around that one.

[ORS]

Lots of fancy words and concepts. Here's an easy concept for you to chew on. The Red Sox scoring of runs at an unprecedented rate from 2003-2005 was correlated with the departure of Johnny Damon. Causation? Yes' date=' in large part. Give me some fancy stats or concepts to get around that one.[/quote']

Another crock. Sure, JD played a role, but he was getting on base then, unlike now. And Trot, Mueller, Millar, and Walker/Bellhorn were all right in the middle of their career peak. It was a special time. That doesn't mean it would have lasted forever.

 

Nothing fancy required, just some common sense. Glad I could fill in where you were lacking.

[CrespoBlows]

Lots of fancy words and concepts. Here's an easy concept for you to chew on. The Red Sox scoring of runs at an unprecedented rate from 2003-2005 was correlated with the departure of Johnny Damon. Causation? Yes' date=' in large part. Give me some fancy stats or concepts to get around that one.[/quote']

 

Team OPS+ (2006) - 101

Team OPS+ (2005) - 114

Team OPS+ (2004) - 110

Team OPS+ (2003) - 118

 

The leadoff spot was fine. Youkilis gave a .385 OBP from leadoff spot for the first half.

 

If you recall, the 2006 Red Sox were on pace to score 925 runs on July 31st. What happened next?

[ORS]

Team OPS+ (2006) - 101

Team OPS+ (2005) - 114

Team OPS+ (2004) - 110

Team OPS+ (2003) - 118

 

The leadoff spot was fine. Youkilis gave a .385 OBP from leadoff spot for the first half.

 

If you recall, the 2006 Red Sox were on pace to score 925 runs on July 31st. What happened next?

Nixon, Varitek, Ortiz, and Ramirez all got hurt because Damon and his magic healing powers weren't here.

[CrespoBlows]

Nixon' date=' Varitek, Ortiz, and Ramirez all got hurt because Damon and his magic healing powers weren't here.[/quote']

 

Don't forget Kevin Millar. Team morale boosts would have given the Red Sox a 15 win boost. Minimum.

 

Ozzie Guillen and John Kruk said it, so it's true.

[a700hitter]

Another crock. Sure, JD played a role, but he was getting on base then, unlike now. And Trot, Mueller, Millar, and Walker/Bellhorn were all right in the middle of their career peak. It was a special time. That doesn't mean it would have lasted forever.

 

Nothing fancy required, just some common sense. Glad I could fill in where you were lacking.

Just responding to your crack disparaging the stat that someone else posted on the boards about the .750 winning % when Damon scores a run. The facft is that when he is healthy and playing well, he makes his teams go. He wasn't partly responsible for the record breaking offenses from 2003-05. He had a major role. After '03 we lost Nomar as a productive player and the runs kept coming in '04 and '05. After '05 we lost Millar, Mueller, and Damon. Youkilis matched Millar's 2005 production and Lowell did a good job of replacing Mueller, but the production was markedly off. No one replaced the leadoff catalyst role in '06. Our production continues to be down in '07, because we have still not found a suitable replacement. Maybe Damon is not producing due to injury this year, but he produced big time in 2006. His injury this year doesn't mean that he is through and done. He could rebound. In 2006, he gave the Yankees way more for $13 million than we are getting out of Drew for $14 million. BTW an injured Damon is not being outperformed by very much by a healthy Drew. They are performing fairly comparably except in Stolen Bases where Damon has 16 and Drew has 1.

[a700hitter]

Team OPS+ (2006) - 101

Team OPS+ (2005) - 114

Team OPS+ (2004) - 110

Team OPS+ (2003) - 118

 

The leadoff spot was fine. Youkilis gave a .385 OBP from leadoff spot for the first half.

 

If you recall, the 2006 Red Sox were on pace to score 925 runs on July 31st. What happened next?

Are games scored in OPS these days? I think runs still matter. Run production fell when Damon left and it is still down. The FO has not adequately replaced him. Who is our leadoff hitter? I forgot. We don't have one.

[ORS]

So, Damon was demonstrably better last year, Crisp is demonstrably better this year, and we are supposed to want Damon because....? I really would like to know. From this point forward, why do we want Damon more?

 

And that is the comp, because that is the replacement. Drew has been a disappointment thus far, but that's no reason to want another one. No thanks.

[inkman]

This has really turned into http://forums.secondcitizen.com/images/smilies/pissingcontest.gif

[a700hitter]

So, Damon was demonstrably better last year, Crisp is demonstrably better this year, and we are supposed to want Damon because....? I really would like to know. From this point forward, why do we want Damon more?

 

And that is the comp, because that is the replacement. Drew has been a disappointment thus far, but that's no reason to want another one. No thanks.

Crisp is demonstrably better. Is he the leadoff hitter? Is the healthy Crisp demonstrably better than the injured Damon with his lower OBP (a hallmark for a leadoff hitter). As of yesterday, they had the same number of runs scored and HRs. Crisp had one more Stolen Base, but he was caught 4 more times. He's demonstrably better? A healthy Damon runs circles around this guy. An injured Damon is his equal. Theo, thanks for replacing the aging declining player with the younger player that is only as good as the declining player that walked away. Thanks alot. Losing his 2006 productivity is really paying off in the long run.

[schillingouttheks]

Haha sorry that I didn't get to closing this thread earlier...

 

You can continue the debate in today's gamethread though.