July 13th vs. Toronto

[Anuj09]

damn

[SCM33]

..................................................................................and I eat my words.

[schillingouttheks]

Goddamn it. At least the Yanks lost.

 

Piss-poor pitching tonight from Tavarez. At least the offense is scoring some runs.

[Anuj09]

Well i think Tavarez's clock will start ticking with Lester and even Buchholz in AAA if he does not get his act together.

[SCM33]

You have to wonder if Tavarez's coach, horse and carriage have turned in to a pumpkin as the clock strikes 12.

 

Hes been a very good 5 overall, but his last 3 or 4 starts have been rather unacceptable.

 

Another couple of innings this season and it will have been the most amount of innings hes thrown in 6 years.

[schillingouttheks]

Well i think Tavarez's clock will start ticking with Lester and even Buchholz in AAA if he does not get his act together.

 

They need to trade for Buehrle. That would put our rotation over the top even if Schilling doesn't come back as strong as we'd like. I don't care if Buehrle signed an extension...get him here. There isn't a no-trade clause in the extended contract, so he can be had. It benefits the White Sox as well because now that he's under contract for the next 5 years (if traded), they can get better prospects for him as opposed to what they'd get if Buehrle was a 2-month rental. Buehrle signing the extension was the first step towards getting the deal done, so hopefully we're heading in that direction. I have a feeling that Lester would already have been up here to help out (in place of Schilling instead of Gabbard taking that spot), but the coaches aren't satisfied with what they're seeing out of Lester. If Buchholz starts dominating in AAA out of the gate, he could be a very strong possibility as well. If I'm the Sox, I offer Lester + Bowden + Moss/Murphy and get Buehrle's ass over here.

 

The good news about tonight is that the offense looks alive again; especially Ortiz and Manny. If they start to hit, very good things will happen. I still think we need an additional bat in the lineup though.

[RobZombie]

The guy I'd try in the 5th spot is Joel Piniero. Piniero is the only guy on the team who has pitched well as a starter in the majors before. Perhaps if stretched out and on a regular schedule he could at least get them into the 6th inning once in a while.

 

With DelCarmen established as the 7th inning guy and Donneley possibly comming back, it might be the perfect time to experiment with Piniero.

[jacksonianmarch]

The guy I'd try in the 5th spot is Joel Piniero. Piniero is the only guy on the team who has pitched well as a starter in the majors before. Perhaps if stretched out and on a regular schedule he could at least get them into the 6th inning once in a while.

 

With DelCarmen established as the 7th inning guy and Donneley possibly comming back, it might be the perfect time to experiment with Piniero.

 

Pineiro pitched well about 5mph and an effective curveball ago.

[schillingouttheks]

The guy I'd try in the 5th spot is Joel Piniero. Piniero is the only guy on the team who has pitched well as a starter in the majors before. Perhaps if stretched out and on a regular schedule he could at least get them into the 6th inning once in a while.

 

With DelCarmen established as the 7th inning guy and Donneley possibly comming back, it might be the perfect time to experiment with Piniero.

 

We really can't start experimenting at this point. We need a proven veteran to come in and solidify our rotation. Right around now was the point last year where we started experimenting with the Snyders and Jason Johnsons of the world, and we all know how that ended up. Right now we're an injury away from our rotation completely falling apart. We need to add another starter.

[BSN07]

Thats JT's 4th bad start in a row. It might be time to start looking for alternative ideas. whether it be Lester, Buchholz, or Gabbard(leave him in rotation if/when Schilling gets back. Or maybe they make a move for someone. I don't see this since there isn't much on the market.

[riverside sluggers]

Sickening. Since June 1st the Sox are just 6-10 in 1 run games

 

Better that this wasnt a game the Sox were expected to win anyway. Here's the next 2: Matsuzaka vs McGowan, Beckett vs Litsch

[RobZombie]

We really can't start experimenting at this point. We need a proven veteran to come in and solidify our rotation. Right around now was the point last year where we started experimenting with the Snyders and Jason Johnsons of the world' date=' and we all know how that ended up. Right now we're an injury away from our rotation completely falling apart. We need to add another starter.[/quote']

 

There are no proven veterans available right now. The best you can hope for on the trade market is a bad veteran (Traschel). A veteran who is actually good is either unavailable, or only available for a completely outrageous price that would destroy the Red Sox future.

 

The Red Sox current options are:

 

#1 Go with Piniero

 

#2 Stick with Tavarez

 

#3 Go and get a veteran who hasn't pitched well this year and hope that he turns it around suddenly.

 

#4 Call up Lester who has been inconsistant at AAA and may still be suffering the effects of chemo.

 

#5 Call up Hansack (who's been poor in the majors), or call up CB and possibly harm his development.

 

#6 Offering Bucholtz and Anderson for the best veteran pitcher you can find.

 

Plus options 3-5 require getting rid of someone who you might need later for depth. Option 6 is the worst option.

 

I'm of the opinion that at least for the next week or two option #1 might be best.

[RedSoxRooter]

The knock on Lester this year is that he's not pounding the strike zone and he's at 100 pitches in the 5th inning. I would argue that that is basically what we get out of Tavarez right now, so why not bring the guy up?

 

As for Buehrle, I would also make the case that because he IS signed long term, he is much more attractive in a trade situation. Teams didn't go after him so hard because they were afraid he'd walk after the season.

 

The more I think about what the Sox need, I think a trade for Griffey would be the way to go. You could give Ortiz a day or two off when needed. Manny could DH more and we wouldn't have to rely on Drew or Pena so much. And it's short money.

 

It would be nice to get more pitching, obviously, but we're only 6 weeks away from the Sept call ups now. So Lester and Buckholz will be here soon enough.

[riverside sluggers]

Offering Bucholz shouldnt be an option at all, so why list it?

 

Pineiro is just coming off of the DL and hasnt been an effective starter for awhile now, and he's our best option to take over the 5th starter? Gag me with a fork please

 

BTW options #1 and #3 are basically the same option

[a700hitter]

There are no proven veterans available right now. The best you can hope for on the trade market is a bad veteran (Traschel). A veteran who is actually good is either unavailable, or only available for a completely outrageous price that would destroy the Red Sox future.

 

The Red Sox current options are:

 

#1 Go with Piniero

 

#2 Stick with Tavarez

 

#3 Go and get a veteran who hasn't pitched well this year and hope that he turns it around suddenly.

 

#4 Call up Lester who has been inconsistant at AAA and may still be suffering the effects of chemo.

 

#5 Call up Hansack (who's been poor in the majors), or call up CB and possibly harm his development.

 

#6 Offering Bucholtz and Anderson for the best veteran pitcher you can find.

 

Plus options 3-5 require getting rid of someone who you might need later for depth. Option 6 is the worst option.

 

I'm of the opinion that at least for the next week or two option #1 might be best.

We are two weeks from the trading deadline, so realistically they barely have time to experiment with one of the options other than a trade. The 4th and 5th slots will come around 3 more times before the deadline. We've gotten as much out of Tavarez as we can expect. I can't see riding him down the stretch, but we are probably forced to keep him in the 5 hole until Schilling comes back. We can't continue with s*** in the 4th and 5th holes any longer. That would be like forfeiting 6 games in the next two weeks. That puts too much pressure on the bullpen and also on the other starters who will be digging deeper to give the pen a rest. If this continues, it could snowball and effect the performance of the entire staff. I think they need to get a reliable starter, and they need to get him now. I really would n't mind seeing Millwood in the rotation. We should be able to get him very cheaply. IMO it would be a mistake if the FO tries to get by with what it has until Schilling comes back. If they don't look to the outside, they don't have many options. Piniero is very inconsistent. Snyder is consistent, but he's good only for 3-4 innings and then the wheels come off. Lester is a 5 inning pitcher.

[riverside sluggers]

Other intriguing trade options could be

 

White Sox

Jon Garland

Javier Vazquez

Jose Contreras

 

Royals

Brian Bannister

Zack Greinke

 

Rangers

Millwood

[a700hitter]

Other intriguing trade options could be

 

White Sox

Jon Garland

Javier Vazquez

Jose Contreras

 

Royals

Brian Bannister

Zack Greinke

 

Rangers

Millwood

Of these, I like Jon Garland and Millwood the best. Millwood is probably cheaper in terms of $ and prospects. Vasquez and Contreras scare me. Bannister is unproven and Greinke is unproven and he has emotional issues that might not be best suited for the microscope of Boston.

[a700hitter]

...The more I think about what the Sox need' date=' I think a trade for Griffey would be the way to go. You could give Ortiz a day or two off when needed. Manny could DH more and we wouldn't have to rely on Drew or Pena so much. And it's short money...[/quote']I like this move. He could play in CF and RF and DH occasionally.

[schillingouttheks]

Offering Bucholz shouldnt be an option at all' date=' so why list it?[/quote']

 

The ONLY way I trade Buchholz is in a trade for Johan Santana. And he'd need to be extended pre-trade for not ridiculous money. That said, that option is exhausted and would never happen.

 

If I'm the Sox, I'm continuing to express my interest in Buehrle, and calling up the Astros to see what they want for Oswalt. Trading for Griffey wouldn't be a bad idea either, but I'd rather have Dunn. That said...where would Griffey play? They're not just going to tell Coco or Drew to take a seat.

 

I'm not sure of the specifics of Griffey's contract though. When does it expire?

[a700hitter]

... Trading for Griffey wouldn't be a bad idea either, but I'd rather have Dunn. That said...where would Griffey play? They're not just going to tell Coco or Drew to take a seat.

 

I'm not sure of the specifics of Griffey's contract though. When does it expire?

The .260 hitting Coco is in no position to refuse to take a seat in favor of Griffey. As for Drew, he seems to find plenty of excuses not to play on his own.

[schillingouttheks]

Coco has arguably been this team's best hitter since mid-June. The fact that his average is now at .260 after his start is what's remarkable. Drew's been coming around as well. I mean, I guess I wouldn't mind shipping Coco off to Cincinatti, but I have some serious apprehensions about Griffey's defense in Fenway's CF. Coco's been having an amazing year in that regard.

 

That said, I agree with you in that if Griffey wears a Boston uniform, we find a place for him. Does anyone know when his contract expires? I have a feeling that if we acquire Griffey then we won't be shopping Ellsbury around at all.

[riverside sluggers]

Coco has arguably been this team's best hitter since mid-June. The fact that his average is now at .260 after his start is what's remarkable. Drew's been coming around as well. I mean, I guess I wouldn't mind shipping Coco off to Cincinatti, but I have some serious apprehensions about Griffey's defense in Fenway's CF. Coco's been having an amazing year in that regard.

 

That said, I agree with you in that if Griffey wears a Boston uniform, we find a place for him. Does anyone know when his contract expires? I have a feeling that if we acquire Griffey then we won't be shopping Ellsbury around at all.

 

I heard a cool idea on WEEI that would have Ortiz get the surgery out of the way so he's fresh for when October comes. The trade for Griffey takes place and he would mainly be the DH until Ortiz comes back. Plus he could platoon with Drew in right

 

Griffey is signed through next year at $12.5 million. He has a $16.5 million option year for 2009 but can be bought out at $5 million