KTF's plan to fix the Sox

[BSN07]

If there's one team that can screwed over in a trade' date=' it's the Rangers. Keep that in mind.[/quote']

 

No kidding, they have traded AROD and Soriano, and have nothing to show for it, well Brad Wilkerson...

[CrespoBlows]

I'll overlook the fact that you stupidly based your argument on high A stats' date='[/quote']

 

Or it could be his arsenal of plus pitches, or the fact that he's got a 96 mph fastball, or the fact that he's a pretty highly regarded pitching prospect.

 

83 MICHAEL BOWDEN, rhp, Red Sox

His delivery may be unorthodox, but it works for him and his stuff is unquestionable

 

Also, those stats at High-A, came at the most extreme hitters park in professional baseball. The idea that someone can produce an ERA that low, in that league, is insane. It should certaintly create some positive vibes.

 

and disregard the HUGE jump it takes to make it in AA. Bowden is facing a challenge in AA, which is good.

 

The kid is 20 years old, which is all the more impressive of how he's at AA right now.

 

 

 

 

Anderson needs to prove he can continue to hit for power for more than a month. The Rangers have made horrible trades in their past, but I don't think this is enough to get Teixeira.

 

This kid is 19 years old. He has 28 doubles in his first professional season. Those kind of hitters usually develop power.

 

If he had 600 AB's, he would have 70 XBH's. I don't think he's lacking anything.

 

 

 

Please add more to the discussion than this. If I was Texas, I wouldn't deal Teixeira for two prospects who haven't successfully made the jump to AA yet. It's not a knock on them, but somehow that's what you've made it into.

 

Neither would I, but this trade offer is not terrible. Another pitching prospect, and this deal would be acceptable.

[KeepTheFaith1229]

No kidding' date=' they have traded AROD and Soriano, and have nothing to show for it, well Brad Wilkerson...[/quote']

 

Don't forget Chris Young and Adrian Gonzalez to San Diego for trash.

[iSeenHippos]

Don't forget, the Rangers also traded Travis Hafner.

 

I already said I wouldn't put it past the Rangers to do this trade, but look at it a different way: The compensation pick for Orlando Cabrera turned into Jacoby Ellsbury. Is the Red Sox offer worth enough to give up a year and a half of Teixeira AND the compensation pick if they chose to just let him walk? I don't think so.

 

I'm well aware of what Anderson and Bowden have done. My point is that I refuse to get too excited about any prospect until they successfully make the jump to AA. Bowden has had great starts where he kept improving, performing great at home in lancaster, and spectacular on the road.

 

So I make the point that Anderson has turned the corner in power hitting this month, and you project his 300 AB's into 600 AB's? okay...

[schillingouttheks]

Teixeira's contract expires this off-season. They'd be giving up 2 months of him in a year where they aren't doing anything. If they trade Teixeira they can get some talented pieces for him instead of a pick where they don't know what they'll get. You know he's going to go somewhere else after this season by testing free agency.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

My point is that I refuse to get too excited about any prospect until they successfully make the jump to AA.

 

In that case we should trade them Brandon Moss and David Pauley......they successfully made the jump to AAA.

 

Nah I'm more excited about Lars Anderson and Michael Bowden...even though they haven't successfully made the jump to AA.

[iSeenHippos]

Teixeira's contract expires this off-season. They'd be giving up 2 months of him in a year where they aren't doing anything. If they trade Teixeira they can get some talented pieces for him instead of a pick where they don't know what they'll get. You know he's going to go somewhere else after this season by testing free agency.

 

My mistake. I didn't know Teixeira was a free agent this offseason instead of next. Sorry for the confusion from that. The trade makes much more sense if he's a free agent this year.

[schillingouttheks]

My mistake. I didn't know Teixeira was a free agent this offseason instead of next. Sorry for the confusion from that. The trade makes much more sense if he's a free agent this year.

 

Easy mistake to make. No problem.

[ksushi]

Tex is hurt and probably isn't going to be tradable I thought.

[iSeenHippos]

In that case we should trade them Brandon Moss and David Pauley......they successfully made the jump to AAA.

 

Nah I'm more excited about Lars Anderson and Michael Bowden...even though they haven't successfully made the jump to AA.

 

Nice try with the straw man argument. Please show me where I have said AAA players are better than any AA and A players ever can become. The point I have made all along is that there is a HUGE jump from high A to AA baseball, so you really don't know what you have until the players adjust to the higher level of play. I love how you continued your straw man argument to make the bold statement that you are more excited about Lars Anderson and Michael Bowden than David Pauley and Brandon Moss, lmao.

 

I doubt the batters Bowden faced in his first AA start went for high fastballs as much as they did when he was at home in Lancaster. So he'll adjust and know more about him as a player. The Red Sox can't stop playing in Lancaster soon enough, I think it develops too many bad habits for players. Give it to the Rockies.

 

 

 

I was wrong and thought Teixeira was a free agent after next year, not at the end of this year. The trade makes a lot more sense KTF.

[schillingouttheks]

I can't see the Sox trading for Teixeira unless he signs an extension as a condition of the trade (very similar to the guidelines in the Buehrle deal). It just wouldn't make sense for the Sox to give up that much value for a 2-month rental.

[ORS]

So I make the point that Anderson has turned the corner in power hitting this month' date=' and you project his 300 AB's into 600 AB's? okay...[/quote']

It's good that you said you "made" that point, because it certainly took some fabrication.

 

[table]Month|SLG|2B|HR|IsoP

April|.477|6|2|.163

May|.490|8|3|.170

June|.505|11|2|.196[/table]

 

What corner has been turned? Take two doubles from June, throw them into April, and we are looking at carbon copies. Two doubles? That's turning a corner?

[iSeenHippos]

It's good that you said you "made" that point, because it certainly took some fabrication.

 

[table]Month|SLG|2B|HR|IsoP

April|.477|6|2|.163

May|.490|8|3|.170

June|.505|11|2|.196[/table]

 

What corner has been turned? Take two doubles from June, throw them into April, and we are looking at carbon copies. Two doubles? That's turning a corner?

 

Aren't you a smartass. At least you made a pretty table...

 

Lars Anderson

 

Before June 1: 59 Hits/20 XB Hits

After June 1: 37 Hits/18 XB Hits

 

He hasn't struck out as much, and is walking a lot more since that point as well. Talk about fabrication, Anderson increased his IsoP by 13.3% from May to June. Two doubles indeed. Idiot.

[schillingouttheks]

Geez...this new guy spits the s***.

[ORS]

Aren't you a smartass. At least you made a pretty table...

 

Lars Anderson

 

Before June 1: 59 Hits/20 XB Hits

After June 1: 37 Hits/18 XB Hits

 

He hasn't struck out as much, and is walking a lot more since that point as well. Talk about fabrication, Anderson increased his IsoP by 13.3% from May to June. Two doubles indeed. Idiot.

Yeah, two doubles.

 

Two doubles from June into the pre-June makes the XBH% 37 to 43, which is completely negligible when talking about "turning a corner". And, if you take two bases from June, his IsoP is only .174, a whopping 2.3% increase.

 

His K/BB improvement was in May. He was 27/11 in April, 19/18 in May, and 22/11 in June. Oh noes, he's regressed!!

 

The difference between a hard hit single and a double is azimuth. Since I don't live in SC and the games aren't televised, I can't speak to any noticable improvement. But, statistically, there's very little there to suggest a "turned corner". If you are going to call 2 more doubles "turning a corner", so be it. But don't expect other people to buy into it. Sell crazy some place else.

 

EDIT: Now, this isn't to say he hasn't shown some improvement. However, the difference is marginal. Maybe it's just me, but I think of "turning a corner" to mean going from relatively bad to relatively good. He was good to begin with. And, his improvement needs to both continue and be sustained longer than a month in order to consider it noteworthy.

[BSN07]

UMMM you guys, Tex is a FA after the 2008 season, not this off season.

[iSeenHippos]

Yeah, two doubles.

 

Two doubles from June into the pre-June makes the XBH% 37 to 43, which is completely negligible when talking about "turning a corner". And, if you take two bases from June, his IsoP is only .174, a whopping 2.3% increase.

 

"Take two bases from June?" I thought this all started because you accused me of fabricating something. Yes, we should just take 2 doubles from June and add them to May, simply because you said it makes no difference. Again:

 

Before June 1: 59 Hits/20 XB Hits

After June 1: 37 Hits/18 XB Hits

 

Everything else I have said is just to support the point that he is turning a corner in power hitting.

 

His K/BB improvement was in May. He was 27/11 in April' date=' 19/18 in May, and 22/11 in June. Oh noes, he's regressed!![/quote']

 

So his K/BB haven't proven the same from the exact same point. I should have said that his K/BB have improved as the season has come along. It was just to add to the point that it has been great to see Anderson improve as a hitter, and it's showing in more than one area.

 

The difference between a hard hit single and a double is azimuth. Since I don't live in SC and the games aren't televised' date=' I can't speak to any noticable improvement.[/quote']

 

Wow. There is really no difference between a hard hit single and a hard hit double. How about one allowed him to reach 2nd base, and the other allowed him to only get to 1st. Those doubles can easily translate into home runs once Anderson grows into his lanky body and gets more experience. You really think a hard hit single will translate into home runs in due time? No, they won't.

 

But' date=' statistically, there's very little there to suggest a "turned corner". If you are going to call 2 more doubles "turning a corner", so be it. But don't expect other people to buy into it. Sell crazy some place else.[/quote']

 

Since June 1st, when Anderson gets a hit, half of the time it's going for extra bases. It's not simply two doubles, but please continue repeating that.

 

EDIT: Now' date=' this isn't to say he hasn't shown some improvement. However, the difference is marginal. Maybe it's just me, but I think of "turning a corner" to mean going from relatively bad to relatively good. He was good to begin with. And, his improvement needs to both continue and be sustained longer than a month in order to consider it noteworthy.[/quote']

 

So I make the point that Anderson has turned the corner in power hitting this month, and you project his 300 AB's into 600 AB's? okay...

 

That is what I said, and you had quoted, so obviously you read it. Why didn't you make your point of how this needs to be continued for longer than a month in order to be noteworthy, when you read someone wanting to project his stats over twice as long. Please tell me where I said Lars Anderson was relatively bad, and became relatively good. I didn't.

 

What's impressive is that Anderson is getting noticeably better in just a short period of time. He still has a lot of work ahead of him. Like I've said other times already, the promotion from high A to AA is very difficult, and it doesn't help Sox prospect hitters that they move from Lancaster to Portland.

 

Please add more to the discussion than "throwing one double in the next month," "a hard hit single is the same as a hard hit double," and "his improvement needs to both continue and be sustained longer than a month in order to consider it noteworthy." I find it hard to believe you haven't noticed a difference in Coco Crisp as of late, or other players which you went by a month's worth of stats or even less with.

 

I thoroughly enjoyed reading a reply where you simply cover your ass and make no real points of your own. I'm not going to reply to another idiotic post where you define the worth of a double, why a month isn't a large enough time to consider improvements in hitters, and how somewhere I have sad Anderson was bad at some point. I haven't.

 

Go quote "As Good As It Gets" somewhere else, and argue semantics with them.

[ORS]

No points of my own? What is there to dispute then?

 

My point is pretty clear. There isn't a whole lot to point to in demonstrating this "corner". I agree, it's not what happened when I take 2 hits from timeframe X and insert them into timeframe Y. The intent there was to show that the delta making the data equitable was very small in magnitude.

 

You say a hard hit single and a double aren't the same, and I challenge you to show me where I do. I said they differ by the direction they are hit. Again, the point there is to show that a couple of more doubles can easily be singles, or even outs, if their trajectory is changed by something as small as 5 degrees.

 

The only reason I took up the argument is to dispute your assertion of some relevant change. I don't see anything to get excited about. The comparison to Crisp is laughable. Crisp went from regular weak groundballs/popups to driving the ball regularly. Anderson has been driving the ball all year.

[ORS]

Teixeira's contract expires this off-season.

It expires this offseason like it did last offseason because he's in his arbitration years. Each arby year is a one year contract. He's a free-agent after 2008.

[iSeenHippos]

No points of my own? What is there to dispute then?

 

My point is pretty clear. There isn't a whole lot to point to in demonstrating this "corner". I agree, it's not what happened when I take 2 hits from timeframe X and insert them into timeframe Y. The intent there was to show that the delta making the data equitable was very small in magnitude.

 

You say a hard hit single and a double aren't the same, and I challenge you to show me where I do. I said they differ by the direction they are hit. Again, the point there is to show that a couple of more doubles can easily be singles, or even outs, if their trajectory is changed by something as small as 5 degrees.

 

The only reason I took up the argument is to dispute your assertion of some relevant change. I don't see anything to get excited about. The comparison to Crisp is laughable. Crisp went from regular weak groundballs/popups to driving the ball regularly. Anderson has been driving the ball all year.

 

Please try and keep up. The only reason I brought up Coco Crisp was because you had said the following:

 

 

EDIT: Now' date=' this isn't to say he hasn't shown some improvement. However, the difference is marginal. Maybe it's just me, but I think of "turning a corner" to mean going from relatively bad to relatively good. He was good to begin with. And, his improvement needs to both continue and be sustained longer than a month in order to consider it noteworthy.[/quote']

 

I find it laughable that you disregard a month, yet agree on Crisp improving.

 

Before June 1: 59 Hits/20 XB Hits

After June 1: 37 Hits/18 XB Hits

 

Again, these XBH can translate into greater power numbers once he gets more experience and grows into his body. You called them similar. I call them what they are. Singles and XBH. You feel the need to interpret this as more than what it is, even though you have already admitted you've never seen a single game of his.

 

Yes, you make no points besides showing that it's a small sample size. Then don't make the argument about Crisp, and don't enter the conversation and ignore the post you are quoting mentioning translating his 300 AB's into 600 AB's.

 

Thanks for also ignoring the point that it is nice to see adjustments in his game, given that he will play high-a ball in an extreme hitter's park, and then AA ball in a pitcher's park.

 

Why don't you make the point about this being a small sample size in the first place? No, you couldn't, you had to be a smartass and post a pretty table which didn't say anything more than what I had, only differently.

 

I'm impressed with his adjustments, especially his power since June 1st.

 

You've mentioned it's a small sample size, you think singles and doubles are similar, and that he has always been a good prospect. If you think a couple of months of baseball are not worth analyzing, then you've made your point. No need to beat everyone over the head about it, and make arguments that aren't there.

[schillingouttheks]

It expires this offseason like it did last offseason because he's in his arbitration years. Each arby year is a one year contract. He's a free-agent after 2008.

 

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. Makes more sense now.

[ORS]

I find it laughable that you disregard a month' date=' yet agree on Crisp improving.[/quote']

Crisp improving is night and day, and, as you mention, I can see it. I guess you can call me a skeptic, but without seeing it, I'm proned to attribute such a minor improvement to some variance in the luck that plays a factor into batted balls finding the right hole to be a 1B, 2B, or 3B.

 

Now, as to one of your other original musings. Texas can get more out of a 1 and 1s than Anderson and Bowden? Now that is funny.

 

Both were 1/1s talent, with Anderson slipping only because of signability. Why would a team prefer the risk of bust with some unproven talent when they can have two HS first round talents, one of which has advanced to AA, the other, a year younger, who will more than likely advance to A+ in his first year? They are the same type of shiny stones Texas will find in the draft, except they had some cut and polish applied. They are closer to a finished product, even if it's only a little, and they've done the big thing thus far, which is to remove the doubt/risk of bust with their performance to date.

 

You can't really believe a team would value a 1 and 1s over those two right now.

[iSeenHippos]

Crisp improving is night and day, and, as you mention, I can see it. I guess you can call me a skeptic, but without seeing it, I'm proned to attribute such a minor improvement to some variance in the luck that plays a factor into batted balls finding the right hole to be a 1B, 2B, or 3B.

 

Now, as to one of your other original musings. Texas can get more out of a 1 and 1s than Anderson and Bowden? Now that is funny.

 

Both were 1/1s talent, with Anderson slipping only because of signability. Why would a team prefer the risk of bust with some unproven talent when they can have two HS first round talents, one of which has advanced to AA, the other, a year younger, who will more than likely advance to A+ in his first year? They are the same type of shiny stones Texas will find in the draft, except they had some cut and polish applied. They are closer to a finished product, even if it's only a little, and they've done the big thing thus far, which is to remove the doubt/risk of bust with their performance to date.

 

You can't really believe a team would value a 1 and 1s over those two right now.

 

Then why not say that you are skeptical to changes, improvements, or adjustments made by hitters unless you see them? No, instead you post some chart and are a smartass. So turning a corner is not the right phrasing for what's going on with Anderson. I only mentioned Crisp because he has marked improvements that haven't taken a month to notice.

 

My problem with the trade for Tex was if Tex has a year and a half left on his deal, why would the Rangers feel the need to give him up for two players who still need to go through and extreme hitters park, to a pitchers park, while making the adjustment to AA.

 

I don't see how letting the Sox assume the risk while they always have the option to just let him walk and take compensation picks are always there. Milwaukee traded Carlos Lee for Francisco Cordero, and that's worked out great for them. Is it that hard to believe someone would be bullish on this? No.

 

Making the jump from high a to AA is incredibly hard, even more for Sox prospects. I can't stand Lancaster.

[iSeenHippos]

Whatever. I'll hold out until these guys prove it in AA. Hughes did it, and Chamberlain is doing it now.

[riverside sluggers]

And Clay Bucholz

[MANNYHOF24]

I think our offense will be fine, and one of the best in the leauge. I am more concerened with our pitching staff right now. I think that while Tavarez has been very, very solid in his 5th starter role, I would much rather see a ratation that consists of Beckett, Matsuzaka, Schilling, Buerthle, Wakefield. I would also not mind to see a trade that brought Brad Lidge to Boston, at the right price. For Buerthle I would trade Lester, and maybe Murphy and Lugo? I don't know, however, I would not give up Ellsbury or Buchholz in a deal, both players just look to promising to part with at this point.

[iSeenHippos]

LMAO, took a little bit more than Anderson and Buchholz to get the Rangers to trade Tex.

[Gom]

First of all, to chime in here, doubles DO translate more into homeruns as players mature and grow into their bodies more than singles. This is pretty much an accepted fact in baseball.

 

Secondly, Lester has a very low value to any team. Would you trade for a player coming back from cancer?

 

The Red Sox had a phenomenal trade deadline, while we realized that Cashman should be shot. I just hope that your relative lack of depth in the rotation will be your undoing. Other than that, I can't see the Yankees getting close to you guys this season.