Coco Crisp - How long should the leash be?

[TheKilo]

I think it's time for a change in CF. Coco Crisp has been awful offensively for the Red Sox in CF this year, and I think it's high time we gave WMP his fair shake. While most WMP detractors will say " We don't want his awful defensive skills in the OF", keep in mind that most defensive metrics have Wily Mo Pena as a league average centerfirelder.

 

I think that Wily Mo Pena can provide a .800+ OPS with consistent playing time. Getting that out of your centerfielder would be absolutely a huge advantage for the Red Sox.

 

I want to like Coco Crisp, I really do. However my patience is wearing thin and I think it's time to get his sub-.600 OPS out of the lineup. Now we are winning lots of games, and that's fantastic, but sooner or later Crisp's .276 OBP is really going to show up as a black hole.

 

I have to think that if he doesn't turn this around by June 1, we'll be seeing a lot more of Wily Mo.

[jacksonianmarch]

or Jacoby.

[Rdsxmbnt]

I think its his till Ellsbury is ready. I really like Coco but hes just not getting the job done. Its strange because he was coming onto his own with two good seasons in CLE when we got him.

[CrespoBlows]

There shouldn't be a leash. It's like having a leash for a Pug, let the leash go, no one wants the f***ing thing.

[riverside sluggers]

Same wavelength, I also made that poll on will Crisp stay

 

Crisp's best asset is his speed, and thats about it. He had a nice hot streak going on but that has quickly come and gone. Im still in full belief that looking ahead to the 2nd half we can be seeing the stud Ellsbury up flashing some leather in Fenway Park

 

BTW what has happened to his power? Coming into Boston he had 15 +/- HR power, even 20 HR potential. He hit 8 last year and right now is the last Sox regular without one

[jacksonianmarch]

There shouldn't be a leash. It's like having a leash for a Pug' date=' let the leash go, no one wants the f***ing thing.[/quote']

 

hahahaha

[TheKilo]

Everyone who is saying Ellsbury, why not give WMP a chance in center?

 

I'd say bring up Ellsbury next year. We don't need two rookies in the lineup.

[Rdsxmbnt]

If we dont see improvement in the next month or even less I think its time to give Pena some ABs.

[riverside sluggers]

I agree about Wily Mo, but Ellsbury should at least get a September callup

[example1]

Everyone who is saying Ellsbury, why not give WMP a chance in center?

 

I'd say bring up Ellsbury next year. We don't need two rookies in the lineup.

 

Why be a rookie hater? WMP is a year and a half older than Ellsbury and hasn't really played a full season himself.

 

The defensive metrics do say that WMP is not a bad fielder. Apparently in the games he has played in he has gotten to the right number of balls compared to league average to make himself appear to be good.

 

Statistics make up for plays unseen. I haven't missed many games the past few years and this guy isn't a better CF than Crisp. He simply isn't. I would be willing to bet Crisp has better defensive tools in any of the three positions, except perhaps his arm in right. That doesn't mean Crisp is a gold glover. he makes many bad reads. But WMP is just bad sometimes in the outfield and is a roller-coaster every other day. I would say this is a place where fielding statistics simply haven't caught up with what is observable by anyone who actually watches them play.

 

Another possibility is that Crisp is actually playing better in CF this season, as he appears to be getting to just about everything hit his way. Perhaps the stats will be lopsided next year and Crisp is just showing what a year of playing CF can do for your skills as a young man with great speed.

 

I'm not ready to get rid of Crisp. As I've advocated many times I think he would be the ideal 4th OF with Ellsbury leading off and playing CF. WMP should be converted to a 1B or so Youkilis can move to 3B, or he should be dealt. I agree with you that we haven't seen what he can do, which could preserve his trade value. His power remains largely "unknown" which I think could net something nice.

[TGov]

I agree with giving WMP more ABs, but he is a horror show in the field... Coco hasn't been all that bad lately... off to a slow start of the season but he's starting to hit a little... and it's good he can steal at the bottom of the order now...

 

I can't wait for Jacoby to be brought up but by no means do I want him to be rushed... when he gets comfortable with AAA and starts dominating like he did in AA, then I say give him the call... maybe around August... give him a chance in the field and plate... if he does good... trade Coco this offseason... if not, you always have the insurance of Coco coming back next year... or signing Hunter/Jones/etc... (pending on they don't re-sign)...

[BoSox21]

26-11, whatevers going on now is working

[TheKilo]

I'm not being a rookie hater at all. I fully expect to see Jacoby Ellsbury with the team in 2008. I also want to be sure he can hit AAA pitching before we immediately jump him straight to the bigs. What's so wrong with keeping him in AAA until September?

 

However, at what point does good defense outweigh a .276 OBP? The guy hits for almost no pop at all. I want to like Crisp, I really do, but he's making it very difficult to do so. I want the Red Sox to field the best team possible. Everyone cites Wily Mo's miscues in the field, but it seems to me that most of them occur in RF. I want Wily Mo to get more burn in CF. In CF, he is definitely a serviceable outfielder.

 

Look at this another way.

 

Coco's offense + Coco's CF defense

 

Coco is an awesome defensive left fielder. Not so much a CFer.

 

 

I think the Sox really need to consider giving WMP some consistent at bats. Coco had two hits tonight, but one was a dink hit that Granderson misread. I think if the Red Sox continue to put Crisp's bat in the lineup, they are not fielding the best team they possibly can. I just don't think any advantage Crisp brings defensively in centerfield excuses him being in the lineup with a sub .600 OPS.

[EvilDonut]

I agree, I've always liked Coco, he has a nice personality, but that doesnt win games. I've stated before that i thought WMP could handle Centerfield. He's played there plenty in his career with few errors. I realize it's not the best way to judge defensive worth, especially in the outfield but he is competent.

 

He is friggin scary with his power, and i dont care if he strikes out as much as he does, he's not going to get any better on the bench, and K's are overrated outs anyways. Occasionally it will matter to hit the sac fly or make some contact, but with his power we should be hoping for the long ball anyway. Besides, who wouldnt take a Dunn on their team?

 

I say give him a chance, or, in the least, figure out a platoon or something.

[ksushi]

May 20th - 25th is my cut off date. Random, but whenever a guy is sucking going into june, right before I'd start looking around for an insurance or an all out replacement player. If you have a guy with upside, like crisp does when you consider his age and track record pre-boston, I would be making calls while that upside might still be on peoples minds.

[example1]

I'm not being a rookie hater at all. I fully expect to see Jacoby Ellsbury with the team in 2008. I also want to be sure he can hit AAA pitching before we immediately jump him straight to the bigs. What's so wrong with keeping him in AAA until September?

 

However, at what point does good defense outweigh a .276 OBP? The guy hits for almost no pop at all. I want to like Crisp, I really do, but he's making it very difficult to do so. I want the Red Sox to field the best team possible. Everyone cites Wily Mo's miscues in the field, but it seems to me that most of them occur in RF. I want Wily Mo to get more burn in CF. In CF, he is definitely a serviceable outfielder.

 

Look at this another way.

 

Coco's offense + Coco's CF defense

 

Coco is an awesome defensive left fielder. Not so much a CFer.

 

 

I think the Sox really need to consider giving WMP some consistent at bats. Coco had two hits tonight, but one was a dink hit that Granderson misread. I think if the Red Sox continue to put Crisp's bat in the lineup, they are not fielding the best team they possibly can. I just don't think any advantage Crisp brings defensively in centerfield excuses him being in the lineup with a sub .600 OPS.

 

 

I think this team is well constructed as is. I feel confident when Crisp comes up that something can happen, sometimes it does. He has scored 17 runs in the last 30 days, 3rd on the team tied with lowell behind Youk and Ortiz. Over that time he has gone .284/.330. I'm all for keeping him in there until this team starts to falter. Until then don't mess with a good thing.

[BSN07]

If it aint broke don't fix it.

[adam123]

Hello people we have a really good team right now . Coco is fine down the line-up his speed is helping us score runs . Plus he can hit a curve ball un like willy mo pop up . I am really starting to think you guys wana back door willy mo corn hole !! talking to you kilo , Mr blowes,and evil dead .We have the 8 game lead . If it aint broke leave it alone . go back to you single A fantasy league if you want willy mo .

[hoke3182]

he'll be fine, his speed and ability to bunt gives the bottom of the lineup exactly what it needs. Plus he's a pretty good centerfielder, you guys never seem to bring that up. Don't change s***.

[CrespoBlows]

Hello people we have a really good team right now .

 

It can be better.

 

Coco is fine down the line-up his speed is helping us score runs .

 

No, he isn't on base enough to score runs. Speed doesn't mean a thing, if you aren't on base.

 

Plus he can hit a curve ball un like willy mo pop up .

 

If that is true, then why does Coco Crisp trail Wily Mo Pena in average, OBP, SLG%?

 

I am really starting to think you guys wana back door willy mo corn hole !! talking to you kilo , Mr blowes,and evil dead

 

 

Nice. Prefering a player over another leads to anal sex. Is this an example of humor, or a learning disability?

 

We have the 8 game lead . If it aint broke leave it alone . go back to you single A fantasy league if you want willy mo .

 

By that logic, you would pass on upgrading the team, because it is playing well. I guess that means, don't move Tavarez, Timlin, or Coco Crisp.

[CrespoBlows]

He has scored 17 runs in the last 30 days' date=' 3rd on the team tied with lowell behind Youk and Ortiz. Over that time he has gone .284/.330. I'm all for keeping him in there until this team starts to falter. Until then don't mess with a good thing.[/quote']

 

Batting in front of a suddenly hot Dustin Pedroia, an out of this world performance by Alex Cora, and getting an occasional start ahead of Ramirez, Ortiz, and Drew will boost your run total.

 

More recently, he's hitting .224/.296/.286 in May.

[TheKilo]

Seriously, the goal of the Red Sox, Francona, and the FO should be to put the absolute best team on the field whenever possible.

 

Aside from that two week stretch where Coco was actually hitting the ball (although many of his hits during that stretch were bunts), he has been a black hole in the lineup. Like CB said, speed does not work unless you get on base. Hell, everyone considered Lugo to be an awful OBP guy, but he's been hitting so that helps out a lot.

 

Look, I just want to see what WMP can bring to the table with consistent playing time. Oh wait he hit .301 with a wrist injury. I wanted to give Crisp a chance as much as anyone but if he doesn't turn it around it's time to explore other options.

 

And adam123 continues to be the biggest dicksmack on this board.

[TedWilliams101]

Coco really has been struggling in the lineup, but I want to give him more time. He had 2 great seasons in CLE and looked to be coming into his own, and now he is just struggling. I really want to see him step up and start hitting. I'd put a timeframe. If by the end of the month he still isn't hitting, then start putting WMP in more often and look to possibly call up Ellsbury later in the season if WMP struggles at all. Right now, I'd be very patient.

 

The team has the second highest BA, most runs scored, most RBI, most walks, highest OBP, etc etc. We have the best record at 26-11 and our pitching has been out of this world. This is far from a pressing issue. Give Coco some more time. It's not a pressing issue right now, so I'm not worried about it. Ask me in a month.

[MANNYHOF24]

I want to see Coco for a few more weeks. Let's not forget that Coco has played a very good CF. He get's to a lot of balls that Willy Mo would never dream of getting to. Offensivly Willy Mo will hit decently, but I would rather wait a few more weeks to see if he can start to gain some confidence at the plate. A hot Coco Crisp with his base running and fielding abilities is more valuable than Willy Mo in the lineup. With that being said, if he shows no signs of like by June 1 then by all means pull the plug.

[adam123]

Enough...seriously. You whine so much when people rip you apart but then you take jabs at everyone in almost every post now. Stop taking shots at CrespoBlows because he could write better posts than you in his sleep.

 

Taking shots ? . come on they put down every post i do here acting like there the talk sox gods . Also they dog everyone who does not share there view f*** that . I am just doing what they do to me . f*** Mr Blows . 70% of members hate willy mo pop up but if we say that all we here is about how dumb we are or how we are retarted . If there so smart why are the not in the FO oh i know there not as smart as they think they ARE .

[Cocos Disciples]

Wait...are you really calling him Mr. Blows?

[schillingouttheks]

Wait...are you really calling him Mr. Blows?

 

At least he's smart enough to address his superiors correctly...?

[schillingouttheks]

Taking shots ? . come on they put down every post i do here acting like there the talk sox gods . Also they dog everyone who does not share there view f*** that . I am just doing what they do to me . f*** Mr Blows . 70% of members hate willy mo pop up but if we say that all we here is about how dumb we are or how we are retarted . If there so smart why are the not in the FO oh i know there not as smart as they think they ARE .

 

Actually, I think it's pretty even when it comes to like/disliking Wily Mo. We don't rip apart anyone who shares opposing viewpoints. If you have them, wonderful, let the debate begin. But you can't put together a logical argument if you're life depended on it. Instead, you think everyone's out to get you so instead of backing up your point, you toss the s*** around as well. You can toss it, but can't take it. Grow up and make a coherent argument that makes a damn good point, or expect to get s*** tossed in your face if you make a stupid post.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Back to the topic at hand (this is like preschool lately)

 

Very interesting WMP stats:

As a starter: .294/.351/.529/.880, 10 hits, 2 doubles, 2 HR, 3 BB, 6 runs, 5 RBI, 15 Ks

As a PH/DR: .125/.222/.125/.347, 1 hit, 0 BB, 1 run, 0 RBI, 3 Ks

 

I mean you look at those and WMP has an .880 OPS as a starter (and hes dreadful as a bench player). With Coco really struggling, I think if WMP can play at least average CF he could represent a big upgrade.

 

(and if anyone knows any sites that do starter/PH splits please tell me so I dont have to go through each game log and calculate these each time )

[adam123]

Actually' date=' I think it's pretty even when it comes to like/disliking Wily Mo. We don't rip apart anyone who shares opposing viewpoints. If you have them, wonderful, let the debate begin. But you can't put together a logical argument if you're life depended on it. Instead, you think everyone's out to get you so instead of backing up your point, you toss the s*** around as well. You can toss it, but can't take it. Grow up and make a coherent argument that makes a damn good point, or expect to get s*** tossed in your face if you make a stupid post.[/quote']

 

I HAVE DONE NOTHING BUT TAKE IT . OK CALLING PEOPLE RETARDS AND IDIOTS AND TELLING PEOPLE THERE MOM DOES HERIOIN DURING BIRH YA THATS NOT RIPING US OK . and willy mo does suck