ROCKET LANDS IN THE BRONX

[a700hitter]

them having roger is not gonna make it harder for us to beat them

Put down the bong and slap yourself into consciousness.

[MDF3530]

Woe is Boston!! Now the Sox have no chance of making the playoffs Goodbye 1st place once Roger returns' date=' we should just start packing it in now[/quote']

 

You are an extremely pessimistic person. We can still beat the Yankees' date=' but it would have been easier if we had Roger and they didn't. Try to look on the positive side of things.[/quote']

On a White Sox message board I post to, FlyingSock.com, Riverside Sluggers would've posted that in teal. It would've implied he's posting that in jest.

 

I think he said that in jest.

[riverside sluggers]

Psst, Clemens last season in the AL... 2003 stats vs Boston

 

5 games (2-3, 8.67 ERA)

27 innings, 38 Hits, 29 Runs (26 ER), 5 HRs, 9 Walks, 24 Ks

 

Last year he was a 5/6 inning pitcher in the NL Central. Meanwhile you and Yankee fans are acting like he's going to be riding on a white horse with a sub 3.5 ERA

 

EDIT:

On a White Sox message board I post to' date=' FlyingSock.com, Riverside Sluggers would've posted that in teal. It would've implied he's posting that in jest.

 

I think he said that in jest.

 

Thank you, glad some know sarcasm when they see it

[a700hitter]

On a White Sox message board I post to' date=' FlyingSock.com, Riverside Sluggers would've posted that in teal. It would've implied he's posting that in jest.

 

I think he said that in jest.

I was jesting back

[a700hitter]

Thank you' date=' glad some know sarcasm when they see it[/quote']Too bad you can't.

[riverside sluggers]

Hey youre the one who's acting like the front office is driving the team into the ground... because they couldnt pay 20 million for 4 months from a 45 year Roger Clemens. One who couldnt last 5 or 6 innings. Its foolish to think he'll get by easily in the tough hitting AL East

[a700hitter]

Hey youre the one who's acting like the front office is driving the team into the ground... because they couldnt pay 20 million for 4 months from a 45 year Roger Clemens. One who couldnt last 5 or 6 innings. Its foolish to think he'll get by easily in the tough hitting AL East

I never said that. I said that Clemens would have been a welcome upgrade and would solidify the rotation. Instead he will be helping the arch-rivals, and we are left hoping that tavarez or lester can do the job. Don't be surprised if they can't.

[MDF3530]

I never said that. I said that Clemens would have been a welcome upgrade and would solidify the rotation. Instead he will be helping the arch-rivals' date=' and we are left hoping that tavarez or lester can do the job. Don't be surprised if they can't.[/quote']In other words, you'd be pinning your hopes on the right arm of a broken-down 45 year old pitcher whose ego is in better shape than his fastball.

[a700hitter]

In other words' date=' you'd be pinning your hopes on the right arm of a broken-down 45 year old pitcher whose ego is in better shape than his fastball.[/quote']in the 5th slot over Tavarez or Lester? Uh.... yeah.

 

Edit: In a head to head match up, who would you bet on?

[RedSoxRooter]

Just two things.. First, I didn't want Clemens back because he would have been the third 40+ starter on the Sox. That is not good. And of the three, he would have given you the shortest outings of all of them.

 

Second, I am convinced to some degree that Clemens would be lit up like a roman candle against the Yankees lineup. So I'm fine with Tavarez/Lester.

 

Does it help the Yanks, sure. But so would a Tavarez or Lester to them. Plus their bullpen is not getting any better any time soon. It's still almost a month till Roger even pitches and the Yanks have nothing at the #5 spot and not much more in the #4 spot right now. Hell, they could be 10 games out by the time he returns.

 

So I'm not concerned, and actually optimistic that Lester will be a rather large part of this whole story - in a great way.

[redsoxrules]

Put down the bong and slap yourself into consciousness.

 

 

blow him allready

[a700hitter]

blow him allready

At least I'd be blowin a HOFer and 300 game winner and not two guys that have a better chance of pumping gas when they leave baseball than going to the HOF.

[RedSoxRooter]

Dude, he is a Hall of Famer. But he's not even an All Star anymore. But so long as you'd blow him, I guess that's fine.

[a700hitter]

Dude' date=' he is a Hall of Famer. But he's not even an All Star anymore. But so long as you'd blow him, I guess that's fine.[/quote']I am glad the discussion has remained at such a high level. You've really convinced me that Tavarez and lester are the better way to go. You have been very persuasive.

[a700hitter]

Dude' date=' he is a Hall of Famer. But he's not even an All Star anymore. But so long as you'd blow him, I guess that's fine.[/quote']And you are right, he has not made an All Star team since 2005. Schilling last made it in 2004 and none of our other starters have ever made an All Star appearance.

[RedSoxRooter]

Ok... So Lester is predicted to be a young Andy Pettitte. We won't know unless we find out. Would you rather have a young Pettitte today or an old Clemens? A lefty to have in the rotation or another old righty? As a matter of fact, the oldest right you could get?

[redsoxrules]

I am glad the discussion has remained at such a high level. You've really convinced me that Tavarez and lester are the better way to go. You have been very persuasive.

 

when we get to the playoffs when it counts tavarez and lester wont be pitching and we'll be kicking roger's ass like we did in 2003

[a700hitter]

Ok... So Lester is predicted to be a young Andy Pettitte. We won't know unless we find out. Would you rather have a young Pettitte today or an old Clemens? A lefty to have in the rotation or another old righty? As a matter of fact' date=' the oldest right you could get?[/quote']It's not an either/or proposition. We could have had Roger for this year and Lester for the future. Duh!!

[a700hitter]

when we get to the playoffs when it counts tavarez and lester wont be pitching and we'll be kicking roger's ass like we did in 2003

Exactly. Roger will be pitching and I don't like our chances in a matchup against Wakefield or even Dice K (unless he cleans up his command). I'd rather have Clemens going for us in october against Rasner, Disalvo or Wright.

[CrespoBlows]

I am glad the discussion has remained at such a high level. You've really convinced me that Tavarez and lester are the better way to go. You have been very persuasive.

 

Let's say that both pitchers pitch 100 IP exactly.

 

Lester has a 4.95 ERA, and Clemens has a 3.50 ERA.

 

Lester allows 55 runs, Clemens allows 35. That's a reasonable projection for both pitchers, no?

 

If this is correct, the upgrade cost from Clemens to Lester is nearly $1.5 million per run scored. Those runs would probably translate to about two to three wins, and possibly four. The extra cost for those wins is $15 million per win, if the upgrade is two. $10 million per win if the upgrade is three, and $7.5 million if the upgrade is four.

 

Yeah, there is a benefit to adding Clemens, but it looks like:

 

COST > benefit

[a700hitter]

Let's say that both pitchers pitch 100 IP exactly.

 

Lester has a 4.95 ERA, and Clemens has a 3.50 ERA.

 

Lester allows 55 runs, Clemens allows 35. That's a reasonable projection for both pitchers, no?

 

If this is correct, the upgrade cost from Clemens to Lester is nearly $1.5 million per run scored. Those runs would probably translate to about two to three wins, and possibly four. The extra cost for those wins is $15 million per win, if the upgrade is two. $10 million per win if the upgrade is three, and $7.5 million if the upgrade is four.

 

Yeah, there is a benefit to adding Clemens, but it looks like:

 

COST > benefit

How does that analysis change if one of the runs that Clemens saves is in game 7 of the ALCS and Lester gives up one more run than Clemens in that game? Does the analysis still hold true? Is it a completely static analysis based entirely on the individual statistics? Based on that type of analysis, Wilt Chamberlain was much more valuable than Bill Russell.

[riverside sluggers]

And you are right' date=' he has not made an All Star team since 2005. Schilling last made it in 2004 and none of our other starters have ever made an All Star appearance.[/quote']

 

Josh Beckett at his current pace should be on the All-Star team

[a700hitter]

Josh Beckett at his current pace should be on the All-Star team

Yes, he is, and thank goodness Torre is not the manager.

[redsoxrules]

Josh Beckett at his current pace should be on the All-Star team

 

and wakefield

[a700hitter]

and wakefield

Yeah, that's happening. Schilling has a good shot though.

[redsoxrules]

Yeah' date=' that's happening. Schilling has a good shot though.[/quote']

 

the second best ERA in the AL dosent make the allstar?

[a700hitter]

the second best ERA in the AL dosent make the allstar?

He will not be an All Star, so don't go wagering anything on it.

[CrespoBlows]

How does that analysis change if one of the runs that Clemens saves is in game 7 of the ALCS and Lester gives up one more run than Clemens in that game?

 

Using this as the crux of your argument is pretty weak. This is entirely speculative, and very improbable.

 

Also, you could easily say, what if Clemens allows one more run then Lester in Game 7? This argument is still pretty stupid, but you have to address both sides of the issue.

 

You're really grasping.

 

 

 

Based on that type of analysis, Wilt Chamberlain was much more valuable than Bill Russell.

 

The NBA is not MLB. This is another weak argument. Though, Chamberlin's first seven years are much more valuable than Russell's. He joins the Lakers with Baylor and West, and his PPG goes down. Not a shock.

[redsoxrules]

He will not be an All Star' date=' so don't go wagering anything on it.[/quote']

 

did i say i was gonna go bet on it? you keep going on, on how roger this , roger that , HOF , i wouldn't bet on that either that roger is gonna stop us from winning against NY . roger could even crap out more than tavarez who knows

[riverside sluggers]

the second best ERA in the AL dosent make the allstar?

 

No doubt Wake would deserve it at pace he's at. Do have to agree with 700, when they select pitchers... of course good ERA is a given, but Ws and Ks are the 2 biggest factors