ROCKET LANDS IN THE BRONX

[a700hitter]

:lol: :harhar: :dance: :dance: :wtf: :shock:

 

 

In terms of the two teams, does the Yankees getting Clemens make the Red Sox weaker?

 

Comparatively, maybe. Absolutely, no.

That's what I meant, and I clarified for you several times. The Red Sox got comparatively weaker.

[CrespoBlows]

Thank you. Finally, someone else who gets it. Thank you for showing more class than 95% of the posters here. It's ironic how the same people who were jumping for joy when you signed Matsuzaka are crying in their soup over Clemens. Thanks for taking the high road, a700.

 

Yankees Sox, one game playoff for the AL East title, loser out of the playoffs because the Tigers got the wild card wrapped up. Clemens versus Matsuzaka.

 

Can you imagine?

 

Look, I think that investing $28-30 million in Roger Clemens is a bad decision. Roger Clemens is a good pitcher, but I think the cost outweighs the benefit.

 

Fair?

[Sox Fan on Cape]

When speaking comparatively' date=' if both teams start out equal and some move is made to change the equilibrium, one team has gotten comparatively stronger and the other has gotten comparativley weaker. I am sorry that you can not grasp that concept.[/quote']

 

One, both teams didn't start out equal. There is no way you can say that the Yanks starters and bull pen is equal to the Sox prior to Clemen's signing. His signing, may have made the Yank's stronger ( maybe not, it remains to be seen ), but it didn't make the Sox weaker.

[TheKilo]

I thought he was going to the Yankees regardless of Money?

 

No one said that.

 

What was said is that if the offers were similar, he would go to the Yankees.

 

Also, I'm glad the Sox FO had the sanity to not spend $24 million for four months of Clemens.

[CrespoBlows]

That's what I meant' date=' and I clarified for you several times. The Red Sox got [b']compartively[/b] weaker.

 

Yes, but you brought up Johnny Damon, which is a completely different case.

 

That's where the confusion was started.

[CrespoBlows]

No one said that.

 

Also, I'm glad the Sox FO had the sanity to not spend $24 million for four months of Clemens.

 

MESN, the Orioles network, has the final cost at just under $27 million.

 

The Red Sox would have had to outbid the Yankees for Clemens, which is going to drive that $27 million up.

[ORS]

Matsuzaka reminds me of a poor man's Mike Mussina' date=' obviously in his younger days. A lot of pitches, not tremendously overpowering, a thinking man's pitcher. He doesn't have the talent Mussina had, not even close [i'm not talking about his Yankee years, I'm talking about his dominance when with the O's'].

Keep in mind, this is why you sell used cars and don't scout ball players. I grew up in the DC area, and I watched a boatload of O's games. They really aren't comparable. Mussina has/had less zip on the fastball and no power breaking pitches. The only similarity is that they have enough quality in their secondary pitches to pitch backwards.

 

Speaking of his talent, he has every bit of the talent Mussina did back then, and he has an ability to dominate games that Mike never had. Now, that is just his talent. To translate it to the field, what he needs to do to see the results is eliminate the Mr Hyde inning. That is what's killing his numbers right now.

 

I really hope you think you got the better guy in Clemens, and I hope you continue to discount him as an asset for this team this year. That way the sting will be all the greater when he figures it out, and he's close. We aren't talking about somebody that needs to put four or five things together before it happens. It's just one missing ingredient, the ability to shrug it off and get the next guy. He'll get it.

[a700hitter]

PAY ATTENTION MOTHER f***ER' date=' BECAUSE I'M ONLY GOING TO DO THIS ONE MORE TIME[/quote']I never f***ed your mother.

 

2007 RED SOX PAYROLL = $143 MILLION

 

LUXURY TAX = $140 MILLION

 

PENALTY FOR EXCEEDING THE LUXURY TAX = $1.2 MILLION

 

The Red Sox don't have the additional wiggle room to continue spending past the luxury tax. We would have to invest $28-$30 million for FOUR MONTHS of Roger Clemens. NOTE - CLEMENS AVERAGED UNDER 6 INNINGS PER START LAST YEAR IN THE NL, WHAT THE f*** MAKES YOU THINK HE'S GOING TO EXCEED THAT IN THE AL WITH THE DH.]

FORGET THE f***ING LUXURY TAX, DOES ANYONE HERE SERIOUSLY BELIEVE THAT GIVING ROGER CLEMENS IN BETWEEN $28 and $30 MILLION DOLLARS IS A GOOD INVESTMENT?

Wasn't the luxury tax argument made by the Red Sox last year when the Yankees snatched Abreu from them for a 1 year contract. Then the hypocrites went and committed $70 million / 5years to Drew. I guess that doesn't trip the luxury tax that Abreu would have tripped?

 

I hear your argument, but it is not one the FO spinmeisters have the courage to make in light of their spending habits. Is it a bad business move for the Yankees if it helps them finish ahead of us and knocks us out of the playoffs? If it helped us knock the Yankees out of the playoffs and given us a shot at the Championship, it would be a bad business move? Do you have an intimate knowledge of the team's finances, because no one else does?

 

Bottom line is that the Yankees made the smart baseball move for their team. That's all we know. You, as I, know nothing about their finances other than what they leak to the press, so shut up with your financial argument. It's nothing more than whining and sour grapes.

[redsoxrules]

Yankees Sox, one game playoff for the AL East title, loser out of the playoffs because the Tigers got the wild card wrapped up. Clemens versus Matsuzaka.

 

Can you imagine?

 

yeah i could , clemens out after 4 IP in a wheelchair , bulpens comes in and blows the game for them

[ORS]

I've got to say, I agree with 700 in regards to the financial part. Whether or not it makes financial sense is immaterial at this point. It's a one year deal. Hell, it's less than one year. The expenditure will not hamstring them to do things in the future.

 

All that said, I really think, in light of the press coming out afterward, that they had little to no shot. I firmly believe he goes to NY for all the reasons stated if the offers are equal, and I don't think NY lets him slip away, not this year with their problems, especially not to Boston.

 

So, like I said right after it all happened. Good. Good for the Yankees. Now let's rake the ever living shite out of him if he kicks off the reunion tour in Fenway.

[a700hitter]

One' date=' both teams didn't start out equal. There is no way you can say that the Yanks starters and bull pen is equal to the Sox prior to Clemen's signing. His signing, may have made the Yank's stronger ( maybe not, it remains to be seen ), but it didn't make the Sox weaker.[/quote']I was speaking hypothetically when I stated that both teams started out equal. It doesn't remain to be seen if he makes the Yankees stronger. That's a real stretch. Clemens vs. Rasner, Pavano, Igawa, Wright. That is not an immediate improvement? You are out on a limb on that.

[CrespoBlows]

I never f***ed your mother.

 

 

 

Wasn't the luxury tax argument made by the Red Sox last year when the Yankees snatched Abreu from them for a 1 year contract. Then the hypocrites went and committed $70 million / 5years to Drew. I guess that doesn't trip the luxury tax that Abreu would have tripped?

 

Sigh...

 

You really don't get it? The Red Sox are currently paying a low penalty, due to being over the luxury tax. Signing Clemens would have forced the Red Sox to invest an extra $30 million dollars into the team.

 

The Red Sox are over the luxury tax. Every single one of Clemens' dollars is taxed at 40%. J.D. Drew's? Probably only $3 million is taxed.

 

I hear your argument, but it is not one the FO spinmeisters have the courage to make in light of their spending habits.

 

Why do they have to make the argument? They don't have to. Everyone knows that Roger Clemens is getting an obscene amount of money. This move would have catapulted the Red Sox way over the luxury tax. They currently are only a few million dollars over the cap. Clemens would have put them a few twenty million over the cap. I don't get how you don't see this.

 

This also would have hurt the Red Sox in terms of making future moves. I'd rather the Red Sox go trade for C.C Sabathia, Dontrelle Willis, extend Jonathan Papelbon, or sign Alex Rodriguez.

 

 

Is it a bad business move for the Yankees if it helps them finish ahead of us and knocks us out of the playoffs?

 

When this happens, we'll address it. The Yankees have to win a World Series to validate this move.

 

If it helped us knock the Yankees out of the playoffs and given us a shot at the Championship, it would be a bad business move?

 

If we knock the Yankees out, and they have Clemens? It's a horrendous decision by the Yankees.

 

Again, we'll address that when it happens.

 

Do you have an intimate knowledge of the team's finances, because no one else does?

 

I have knowledge of the luxury tax, luxury tax rates, and that no player is worth $30 million dollars for 4 months.

 

Bottom line is that the Yankees made the smart baseball move for their team. That's all we know. You, as I, know nothing about their finances other than what they leak to the press, so shut up with your financial argument. It's nothing more than whining and sour grapes.

 

WE DO KNOW THAT TEAMS ARE SUBJECT TO PENALTIES WHEN THE CROSS THE LUXURY TAX LINE. THE RED SOX WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER IT, AND WOULD HAVE HAD TO INVEST $30 MILLION DOLLARS IN A 45 YEAR OLD FIVE INNING PITCHER.

 

I DON'T NEED TO KNOW ANYTHING ELSE TO DECIDE THAT GIVING $30 MILLION DOLLARS TO A 45 YEAR OLD PITCHER IS A BAD MOVE

[BoSox21]

There's no question it makes the Yankees stronger. Still not as strong as the Red Sox IMO, but it definitely makes them stronger. But if we're talking from a financial standpoint, the Sox can get more value for $30 million at the trade deadline then spending it on Clemens

[a700hitter]

I've got to say, I agree with 700 in regards to the financial part. Whether or not it makes financial sense is immaterial at this point. It's a one year deal. Hell, it's less than one year. The expenditure will not hamstring them to do things in the future.

 

All that said, I really think, in light of the press coming out afterward, that they had little to no shot. I firmly believe he goes to NY for all the reasons stated if the offers are equal, and I don't think NY lets him slip away, not this year with their problems, especially not to Boston.

You have stated this as an opinion where others have assumed it as fact. My point is that we'll never know, because they really did low-ball him by offering less than they offered last year. I never expected that.

So' date=' like I said right after it all happened. Good. Good for the Yankees. Now let's rake the ever living shite out of him if he kicks off the reunion tour in Fenway.[/quote']I agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment, but if he beats us in the playoffs in the 7th game, I reserve the right to renew my criticism.

[a700hitter]

WE DO KNOW THAT TEAMS ARE SUBJECT TO PENALTIES WHEN THE CROSS THE LUXURY TAX LINE. THE RED SOX WOULD HAVE BEEN OVER IT, AND WOULD HAVE HAD TO INVEST $30 MILLION DOLLARS IN A 45 YEAR OLD FIVE INNING PITCHER.

 

I DON'T NEED TO KNOW ANYTHING ELSE TO DECIDE THAT GIVING $30 MILLION DOLLARS TO A 45 YEAR OLD PITCHER IS A BAD MOVE[/b][/size]

I already paid for my tickets this season, so it would not have affected my pocket. Also, it's a one-year commitment for a billion dollar business. The additional $10 million amounts to little more than a rounding error in a businee of that size.

[a700hitter]

There's no question it makes the Yankees stronger. Still not as strong as the Red Sox IMO' date=' but it definitely makes them stronger. But if we're talking from a financial standpoint, the Sox can get more value for $30 million at the trade deadline then spending it on Clemens[/quote']

At the trading deadline, it will cost prospects, not just money. I am okay with that, but many others are very tied to our prospects.

[BoSox21]

At the trading deadline' date=' it will cost prospects, not just money. I am okay with that, but many others are very tied to our prospects.[/quote']

 

very true, but we have enough prospects that have value to other organizations that we can use a few as trade chips. but the money also has to be there and we know the money will be there.

[Optimist]

EDIT: one other thing that I realized, The Yankees are STILL trying to buy Another World Series... PERFECT EXAMPLE, Roger Clemens...

 

As opposed to the Red Sox? Ummm, how many of your players have not been 'bought'? Like 3?

 

That's the nature of the game now; big market teams with a lot of success like the Yankees and the Sox get rarely get major help from their farm systems, they have to 'buy' talent.

[riverside sluggers]

Even the FO can't use the luxury tax spin in light of their drunken spending over the winter, but feel free to give them an excuse that they are too ashamed to make for themselves.So Clemens would not be an improvement over Tavarez? Come on now. Won't he improve your chief competitors? Improving yourself while weakening your opponent is a double whammy.

 

Lester=Clemens? This is in the category of blasphemy.

 

Woe is Boston!! Now the Sox have no chance of making the playoffs Goodbye 1st place once Roger returns, we should just start packing it in now

[riverside sluggers]

The truth is that most of this is just sour grapes from most of you guys.

 

Here is a better question. For this season, and this season only...Clemens or Dice-K? I'm curious as to what you guys think about this one.

 

Matsuzaka will pitch more innings, get more Ws, and rack up more Ks. He'll eventually settle with an ERA around 4, the same Clemens will probably have

[ORS]

On a side note, anyone catch the Waldman clip on the radio today? Several sports talk shows have played it, and if you haven't heard it, I'm sure an MP3 is out there somewhere on the 'net. Easily one of the most pathetically funny things I've heard on the radio.

[MDF3530]

Suzyn Waldman on WCBS

 

Here's how I picture her:

 

http://www.thesonsofemperornorton.com/honorary_member_images/phyllis_diller.jpg

[arbitrary]

Bring it on Yanks!

[riverside sluggers]

Jesus, shes acting like theyve just won the world series in a dramatic walkoff. The most dramatic thing youve ever seen? You really need to get out more lady

[Optimist]

Yeah, she definitely overreacted but I can't really blame her. I was freaking out when I saw it on TV, I can't imagine what it was like at the stadium.

[adam123]

STILL DOES NOT MATTER. YANKEES ADD ANOTHER OLD PITCHER TO SAVE THERE SEASON .

SAME OL STORY.

[Optimist]

STILL DOES NOT MATTER. YANKEES ADD ANOTHER OLD PITCHER TO SAVE THERE SEASON .

You adding nothing to the discussion....hmmm....

 

SAME OL STORY.

[CrespoBlows]

You adding nothing to the discussion....hmmm....

 

:lol:

 

Best post of the year.

[a700hitter]

Woe is Boston!! Now the Sox have no chance of making the playoffs Goodbye 1st place once Roger returns' date=' we should just start packing it in now[/quote']You are an extremely pessimistic person. We can still beat the Yankees, but it would have been easier if we had Roger and they didn't. Try to look on the positive side of things.

[redsoxrules]

You are an extremely pessimistic person. We can still beat the Yankees' date=' but it would have been easier if we had Roger and they didn't. Try to look on the positive side of things.[/quote']

 

them having roger is not gonna make it harder for us to beat them