Sox rotation changes

[jacksonianmarch]

This next week we are really going to get an idea of how good DiceK is. He faces Toronto then the Yankees twice. It's going to be a tough challenge for him.

 

it will be. I think he dominates the yankees in his first start. The yankees dont deal well with new pitchers for some reason. But his last start, in Yankee stadium potentially against CMW would be a war. I am loving it right now, if you cannot beat the best, you dont belong.

[Thumper]

it will be. I think he dominates the yankees in his first start. The yankees dont deal well with new pitchers for some reason. But his last start' date=' in Yankee stadium potentially against CMW would be a war. I am loving it right now, [b']if you cannot beat the best, you dont belong[/b].

 

 

So then why are the Yankees still a club?

 

Just playin'.

 

But I do agree with you. Dice K will most likely dominate the first game, but after reviewing his moves and pitches, the Yanks will be able to predict better in what he's gonna do so that way during the next game they could try and get more hits off him.

 

However, depending on HOW well he does the first time could make me reconsider because for all we know he could win both games with who knows how many Ks. Even if it is the Yankees he could still dominate.

[jacksonianmarch]

So then why are the Yankees still a club?

 

Just playin'.

 

But I do agree with you. Dice K will most likely dominate the first game, but after reviewing his moves and pitches, the Yanks will be able to predict better in what he's gonna do so that way during the next game they could try and get more hits off him.

 

However, depending on HOW well he does the first time could make me reconsider because for all we know he could win both games with who knows how many Ks. Even if it is the Yankees he could still dominate.

 

The thing the yankees need to do is exactly what they didnt do against Ramon Ortiz. Take pitches. DiceK has shown that he can get a little wild at times and if you dont chase him, you can scratch a few runs across. And, if he K's 15 in 6 innings, then that means he threw 45 pitches at least in those ABs. If you get him out of the game early, that is just more innings you will have against that terrible middle relief. If we work him well, take pitches, work walks and fight counts, we can grind him out of the game and scratch a few across. This is our task. We arent going to Sidney Ponson his ass and slam him all over the park. It would be nice, but I dont see it. We have to work him.

[Thumper]

It'll be a rude awakening for Dice K in the major leagues. But I think he'll do fine against the Yanks. All he has to do is stay ahead in the counts, keep his composure, and he's gonna dominate.

[rician blast]

Interesting how this early in the season there are such differing views on Matsuzaka, despite limited evidence.

 

Jacksonian says:

DiceK has shown that he can get a little wild at times and if you dont chase him, you can scratch a few runs across.

 

Thump says:

All he has to do is stay ahead in the counts, keep his composure, and he's gonna dominate.

 

IMO there is virtually no way to tell conclusively what this year holds for him, it's simply way too early. Yeah, he has good stuff, but also, yeah this is a new league...give it some time.

[Papelbon58]

It'll be a rude awakening for Dice K in the major leagues. But I think he'll do fine against the Yanks. All he has to do is stay ahead in the counts' date=' keep his composure, and he's gonna dominate.[/quote']

 

Wait, wait. The major leagues are gonna be hard on Dice-K, but when he faces the best lineup in the major leagues, he's gonna dominate.

 

Yes, thats right. That actually is what he said. And Josh Beckett is the greatest pitcher known to man.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wait, wait. The major leagues are gonna be hard on Dice-K, but when he faces the best lineup in the major leagues, he's gonna dominate.

 

Yes, thats right. That actually is what he said. And Josh Beckett is the greatest pitcher known to man.

 

cause of the bloop single.

[jacksonianmarch]

Interesting how this early in the season there are such differing views on Matsuzaka, despite limited evidence.

 

Jacksonian says:

DiceK has shown that he can get a little wild at times and if you dont chase him, you can scratch a few runs across.

 

Thump says:

All he has to do is stay ahead in the counts, keep his composure, and he's gonna dominate.

 

IMO there is virtually no way to tell conclusively what this year holds for him, it's simply way too early. Yeah, he has good stuff, but also, yeah this is a new league...give it some time.

 

 

My response was something that can be applied to nearly any pitcher. So I agree with your sentiment. We really dont know and going off a game vs KC where he was masterful and a game vs Seattle where he was decidedly average doesnt give you much. I'll tell you this, he has an arsenal to him. And it is early, but my comment was mostly associated with the fact that he missed with a good amount of his breaking balls in the seattle game (likely due to the cold btw). But he is a damn good pitcher and I'd take him on my team over anyone in our rotation not named Wang or Pettitte.

[jacksonianmarch]

Schilling, Beckett, Matsuzaka in the first series

 

Matsuzaka, Wakefield, Tavarez in the Bronx.

[schillingouttheks]

I like all of the match-ups. I'm confident with every starter (minus Tavarez) going against the Yanks. Schilling, Beckett, then Matsuzaka is a great set. Then Matsuzaka and Wakefield is a good pair as well (Wakefield always pitches the Yankees tough). It also helps to know that Tavarez would be going up against Rasner most likely (that's what I thought, at least) or some other Yankee scrub. I don't think he's going against Pettitte.

[riverside sluggers]

Thats if Tavarez hasnt been replaced by then. His next start isnt looking promising thus far... Tavarez vs Halladay which is on my birthday:thumbdown

 

God willing they call up Hansack if we see another outing like Texas

[example1]

My response was something that can be applied to nearly any pitcher. So I agree with your sentiment. We really dont know and going off a game vs KC where he was masterful and a game vs Seattle where he was decidedly average doesnt give you much. I'll tell you this' date=' he has an arsenal to him. And it is early, but my comment was mostly associated with the fact that he missed with a good amount of his breaking balls in the seattle game (likely due to the cold btw). But he is a damn good pitcher and I'd take him on my team over anyone in our rotation not named Wang or Pettitte.[/quote']

 

Two nights after the "decidedly average" performance by Dice-K, Dontrelle Willis put up almost the exact same line: 7 IP, 8 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 5 K (vs. 4 K for Dice) against ATL. In the game wrap his performance was called "another solid performance" and on baseball tonight they praised his ability. If a BAD day is pitching like a solid night for Dontrelle Willis then we'll take him.

 

If you would keep Wang and Pettitte over him then more power to you. I think your valuation is wrong. Neither the Red Sox nor the Yankees would have posted 50m for either Pettitte or Wang, even now.

 

I don't think him being wild was the problem at all. In fact, I thought Seattle's hits came early in the count and were the strikes he was trying to get over. Give the guy a chance to pitch in 80 degrees and sun, at some time when it isn't his first game in Fenway.

[TedWilliams101]

Wait, how are we going to see Halladay? The first game is Dice-K and Chacin, then the next 2 guys in the Jays rotation are Ohka and Towers. So are they going to skip one of them, or are they now going to miss Halladay for the sox series?

[riverside sluggers]

I just saw on NESN this morning thats the matchup, Tavarez vs Halladay

[ORS]

Wait' date=' how are we going to see Halladay? The first game is Dice-K and Chacin, then the next 2 guys in the Jays rotation are Ohka and Towers. So are they going to skip one of them, or are they now going to miss Halladay for the sox series?[/quote']

Towers pitched on Sunday. Their rotation order is Chacin, Ohka, Halladay, Burnett, Towers.

 

EDIT: I shouldn't need to include this disclaimer, but I probably will need to before people jump to conclusions. This is not their 1-5 order, just the "next up" order.

[jacksonianmarch]

Two nights after the "decidedly average" performance by Dice-K, Dontrelle Willis put up almost the exact same line: 7 IP, 8 H, 3 R, 3 ER, 5 K (vs. 4 K for Dice) against ATL. In the game wrap his performance was called "another solid performance" and on baseball tonight they praised his ability. If a BAD day is pitching like a solid night for Dontrelle Willis then we'll take him.

 

If you would keep Wang and Pettitte over him then more power to you. I think your valuation is wrong. Neither the Red Sox nor the Yankees would have posted 50m for either Pettitte or Wang, even now.

 

I don't think him being wild was the problem at all. In fact, I thought Seattle's hits came early in the count and were the strikes he was trying to get over. Give the guy a chance to pitch in 80 degrees and sun, at some time when it isn't his first game in Fenway.

 

Pettitte and Wang have track records in the bigs. And to say you wouldnt take the guy who was 2nd in the CY voting last yr at the same age as Mats is overstepping his value at this point.

 

And when I say Mats was decidedly average, it is mostly based on his pitching, not his results. As I said before, Pavano had that start in Minny where the first 3 innings, he was missing in bad locations and he didnt get shelled. DMats was all over the place with his curve, they didnt hit him as hard as they could have. Whereas when he was throwing vs KC, I dont think any team hits him hard, he was that good. Right now, DMats is showing a nice transition to the majors and giving the sox innings, which is all you can ask for. If the japanese track record bears out and his control is consistent, then his arsenal and his heat will be very tough to beat.

[TheKilo]

Pettitte and Wang have track records in the bigs. And to say you wouldnt take the guy who was 2nd in the CY voting last yr at the same age as Mats is overstepping his value at this point.

 

And when I say Mats was decidedly average, it is mostly based on his pitching, not his results. As I said before, Pavano had that start in Minny where the first 3 innings, he was missing in bad locations and he didnt get shelled. DMats was all over the place with his curve, they didnt hit him as hard as they could have. Whereas when he was throwing vs KC, I dont think any team hits him hard, he was that good. Right now, DMats is showing a nice transition to the majors and giving the sox innings, which is all you can ask for. If the japanese track record bears out and his control is consistent, then his arsenal and his heat will be very tough to beat.

 

Wang had one good year in the bigs. So did Mark Fidrych.

[seabeachfred]

cause of the bloop single.

 

Jackson, sooner or later the Red Sox are going to have to start hitting more consistently. Manny still has not busted loose and it seems as though we have one breakout game and then back in the outhouse. We need about five or six guys to get hot at the same time.

[Ray10]

When is Lester do back cause the Sox need to replace Tavarez with Lester in the rotation.

[jacksonianmarch]

Wang had one good year in the bigs. So did Mark Fidrych.

 

his 1 yr is more than DMats has. And it is actually one and a half.

[TheKilo]

his 1 yr is more than DMats has. And it is actually one and a half.

 

7 great years in Japan is more than Wang had too.

[jacksonianmarch]

7 great years in Japan is more than Wang had too.

 

so wait. So Igawa's success in Japan doesnt translate, but Matsuzaka's does? Are you serious? Kilo, you are backing into a corner here. Just say it. Right now, you will choose DMats over Wang based on "stuff" and the fact that you are a red sox fan. It is okay to admit it.

[seabeachfred]

so wait. So Igawa's success in Japan doesnt translate' date=' but Matsuzaka's does? Are you serious? Kilo, you are backing into a corner here. Just say it. Right now, you will choose DMats over Wang based on "stuff" and the fact that you are a red sox fan. It is okay to admit it.[/quote']

 

Jackson, Kilo loves to get on those people "who don't stay on topic and stick with the facts" Those are HIS facts. Makes a hell of a lot of sense doesn't it? Sad to say he is a Red Sox fan. He is also full of s***. It's a waste of time to even deal with that guy.

[ORS]

Jackson' date=' Kilo loves to get on those people "who don't stay on topic and stick with the facts" Those are HIS facts. Makes a hell of a lot of sense doesn't it? Sad to say he is a Red Sox fan. He is also full of s***. It's a waste of time to even deal with that guy.[/quote']

And this is on topic? Seems rather personal to me. You didn't even state your opinion on the matter. Which is it, Fred, Wang or Matsuzaka?

[schillingouttheks]

so wait. So Igawa's success in Japan doesnt translate' date=' but Matsuzaka's does? Are you serious? Kilo, you are backing into a corner here. Just say it. Right now, you will choose DMats over Wang based on "stuff" and the fact that you are a red sox fan. It is okay to admit it.[/quote']

 

I would choose Matsuzaka over Wang for the fact that Matsuzaka's arsenal is a lot wider. He has 5 pitches not named a fastball (I think, I know it's at least 4) and he's a power pitcher. Wang masters the sinker but sooner or later those groundballs will start finding some holes. Jeter appears as if he has lost a step (rough defenseive start as well, that's not to say things won't change though) and Cano is a bit slow, so the mid-IF defense could be a bit suspect for him. If he gets groundballs to the corners, then Mientkgasfgkajsfgna and A-Rod are pretty dependable. Jeter is too, but hasn't looked like it recently. I would worry about groundballs up the middle with Wang...people adjust to the sinker and if they can time it better, Wang will have to continue to get lucky to be as successful as he was a year ago.

[TheKilo]

so wait. So Igawa's success in Japan doesnt translate' date=' but Matsuzaka's does? Are you serious? Kilo, you are backing into a corner here. Just say it. Right now, you will choose DMats over Wang based on "stuff" and the fact that you are a red sox fan. It is okay to admit it.[/quote']

 

Comparing Matsuzaka's success in the Japanese leagues and Igawa's is a bit of a stretch to say the least.

 

This whole argument started when you said Wang had a "track record" in the bigs. One good year does not a track record make, and I used Fidrych as an example of it.

 

No one, me included, said anything about Matsuzaka having a track record in the Major Leagues.

[jacksonianmarch]

Comparing Matsuzaka's success in the Japanese leagues and Igawa's is a bit of a stretch to say the least.

 

This whole argument started when you said Wang had a "track record" in the bigs. One good year does not a track record make, and I used Fidrych as an example of it.

 

No one, me included, said anything about Matsuzaka having a track record in the Major Leagues.

 

I said I'd take one and a half yrs of major league results over what Matsuzaka has done to this point.

 

And to say Igawa's success in Japan is any different is a bit jaded. Since 2000, they have been pretty close and Igawa has an MVP under his belt.

[TheKilo]

I said I'd take one and a half yrs of major league results over what Matsuzaka has done to this point.

 

And to say Igawa's success in Japan is any different is a bit jaded. Since 2000, they have been pretty close and Igawa has an MVP under his belt.

 

That's fine. No one was comparing Wang to Matsuzaka, well at least I wasn't.

 

All I was saying was Wang's one good year does not mean he has a track record. Mark Fidrych had one good year. Does he have a track record?

 

And yes, if Matsuzaka gives us a year like Wang ahd last year I will be very pleased.

[ksushi]

Jack, Igawa can't locate any of his secondary pitches and throws softer than my 4 year old nephew to boot. Thats why D-Mat is better.

 

Please don't try to make that arguement.

[jacksonianmarch]

Jack, Igawa can't locate any of his secondary pitches and throws softer than my 4 year old nephew to boot. Thats why D-Mat is better.

 

Please don't try to make that arguement.

 

I am just poking holes in your whole track record portion.