The Official Petition for the Release of Julian Tavares

[CrespoBlows]

The result of .....INJURY.

 

So, his OPS is going to spike back up to his '03 levels?

 

I agree. It will be quite pathetic when old man Helton at age 33 trashes Youk age 28.

 

Why is that pathetic? Helton is the better hitter. Just not as great as you think he is.

 

 

Take the bet if you are so sure of your powers of perception.

He will trash him. Take the bet. Make me eat my words.

 

Look at the stats. That should make you shut up. All of it says Helton is on the decline, he is a product of Coors Field, and he isn't worth a 6 year deal. Helton also gets to play in 19 games of top 10 offensive ballparks.

 

Here's my prediction, Youkilis will be within .20 points of Helton's road OPS.

[RobZombie]

Getting back to the topic of the thread at hand.

 

Julian Tavarez has a couple of good pitches with movement that allow him to get ground balls. If he's able to do this as he was somewhat last September he should be less than terrible which is what the Sox need.

 

Usually guys with sinkers pitch on feel. They need to pitch a lot to pitch well and Tavarez hasn't pitched on regular rest yet.

 

I think that Tavarez at least needs a few starts on regular rest before fans start to scream for his head. I know that Sox fans aren't the most patient in the world, but sheesh give the guy a few starts on regular rest before calling for his head.

[ORS]

.20 or .020? Big difference.

[CrespoBlows]

.20 or .020? Big difference.

 

.020, sorry.

[a700hitter]

So' date=' his OPS is going to spike back up to his '03 levels? [/quote']No, but it will go back up, so how will that square with the theory of decline?

 

Here's my prediction' date=' Youkilis will be within .20 points of Helton's road OPS.[/quote']It's a bet. Youklis' road OPS v. Helton's road OPS and I'll spot you 20 points.

[riverside sluggers]

Getting back to the topic of the thread at hand.

 

Julian Tavarez has a couple of good pitches with movement that allow him to get ground balls. If he's able to do this as he was somewhat last September he should be less than terrible which is what the Sox need.

 

Usually guys with sinkers pitch on feel. They need to pitch a lot to pitch well and Tavarez hasn't pitched on regular rest yet.

 

I think that Tavarez at least needs a few starts on regular rest before fans start to scream for his head. I know that Sox fans aren't the most patient in the world, but sheesh give the guy a few starts on regular rest before calling for his head.

 

Sox fans arent just looking at 1 start... we're also looking at countless times he pitched last year where he didnt keep the team in the game. He walked a crazy ammount of batters too, 44 in 98.2 innings pitched (1.56 WHP) and gave up 110 hits in that span (opposing .293 avg). So far this year he's walked 5 in 4 innings (2.75 WHP) and 6 hits (opposing .333 avg)

 

Be my guest if you are encouraged to see him make these starts in April:

Angels

Blue Jays

Blue jays

Yankees

[CrespoBlows]

 

It's a bet. Youklis' road OPS v. Helton's road OPS and I'll spot you 20 points.

 

Oh, and if they're both under .800, we both lose.

[a700hitter]

.020' date=' sorry.[/quote']Are we on?

[CrespoBlows]

Are we on?

 

Yep, but see the post above yours.

[a700hitter]

Oh' date=' and if they're both under .800, we both lose.[/quote']I let you name the bet, and now you want to qualify? Okay. I agree. Anything else?

[CrespoBlows]

I let you name the bet' date=' and now you want to qualify? Okay. I agree. Anything else?[/quote']

 

Nope.

[ORS]

Since we are veering a bit back on course, I just don't see any room for optimism re: Tavarez. Sure, the guy has some good movement pitches that can induce the GB, but he doesn't have command of them. He is a free pass machine lately, and let's not even get into his makeup. The guy loses his grip on the situation in a flash. The worst thing in the world that could happen is if Tavarez goes out and produces a quality start his next time out because that means the JT Experiment will last longer.

[a700hitter]

Since we are veering a bit back on course' date=' I just don't see any room for optimism re: Tavarez. Sure, the guy has some good movement pitches that can induce the GB, but he doesn't have command of them. He is a free pass machine lately, and let's not even get into his makeup. The guy loses his grip on the situation in a flash. The worst thing in the world that could happen is if Tavarez goes out and produces a quality start his next time out because that means the JT Experiment will last longer.[/quote']I know that you would like to see Hansack get a chance, and I am not saying that he will not be better than JT, but I am not comfortable with starting the game of musical chairs for the 5th spot in the rotation this early in the year. I fear that if we don't get a legit starter to hold down the spot, that we will head down last year's road where we ended up playing musical chairs with 2 spots by August. We do have two 40 year olds in the rotation. It's not out of the question, that one of them goes down.

[TheKilo]

[a700hitter]

Helton>every red sox hitter except Manny and Ortiz

[TheKilo]

Helton>every red sox hitter except Manny and Ortiz

 

Drew > Helton

[jacksonianmarch]

Drew > Helton

 

wow, um, no. Helton is at least good for a near full season of baseball.

[CrespoBlows]

wow' date=' um, no. Helton is at least good for a near full season of baseball.[/quote']

 

I assume, he means when he's healthy.

[jacksonianmarch]

I assume' date=' he means when he's healthy.[/quote']

 

health is a big part of it, though.

[TheKilo]

health is a big part of it' date=' though.[/quote']

 

Fair point, but now you can't rely on Helton to be healthy either.

[jacksonianmarch]

Fair point' date=' but now you can't rely on Helton to be healthy either.[/quote']

 

but Helton takes the field, even when he is hurt. Last yr his games were down, but he toughed it out. Drew has a reputation of not toughing out minor injuries. This is a character flaw more than anything and a big reason why Heltons production goes a ways further than Drew's does.

[a700hitter]

but Helton takes the field' date=' even when he is hurt. Last yr his games were down, but he toughed it out. Drew has a reputation of not toughing out minor injuries. This is a character flaw more than anything and a big reason why Heltons production goes a ways further than Drew's does.[/quote']Great points. Not counting the first year -a partial one for both of them, Drew has averaged 118 games/yr while Helton has averaged 154 games/yr. As these other guys have been telling me, look at the stats. Helton>Drew.

[CrespoBlows]

but Helton takes the field, even when he is hurt. Last yr his games were down, but he toughed it out. Drew has a reputation of not toughing out minor injuries. This is a character flaw more than anything and a big reason why Heltons production goes a ways further than Drew's does.

 

Maybe he should have sat out, because his performance suffered.

 

If were using Games Played as a barometer of talent, then my guy wins, easily.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pierrju01.shtml

 

Pierre > Helton, Drew, Manny, Ortiz, any baseball player who didn't play in 162 games.

[a700hitter]

Maybe he should have sat out, because his performance suffered.

 

If were using Games Played as a barometer of talent, then my guy wins, easily.

 

http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/pierrju01.shtml

 

Pierre > Helton, Drew, Manny, Ortiz, any baseball player who didn't play in 162 games.

That's just silly. If you don't see the differnce between a player that misses one-third of his team's games ea?h year and a player that plays 95 percent of his team's games, then there isn't much to say. Who knows, maybe one day a pinch hitter will win the MVP.

[CrespoBlows]

That's just silly. If you don't see the differnce between a player that misses one-third of his team's games eaçh year and a player that plays 95 percent of his team's games' date=' then there isn't much to say. Who knows, maybe one day a pinch hitter will win the MVP.[/quote']

 

No s***?

 

It is, like your argument, foolish.

 

If you had any statistical insight to why Helton was better than Drew, I'd listen, but for now, I'll match you crap for crap.

[Plumpamania]

No s***?

 

It is, like your argument, foolish.

 

If you had any statistical insight to why Helton was better than Drew, I'd listen, but for now, I'll match you crap for crap.

 

That didn't include career stats, or anything after 2003.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

On a side note away from Helton, Drew, etc....

 

 

Devern Hansack had another great game.

5 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 10 K

 

Get rid of Julian Tavarez and give this guy a shot.

[ORS]

On a side note away from Helton, Drew, etc....

 

 

Devern Hansack had another great game.

5 IP, 2 H, 0 ER, 10 K

 

Get rid of Julian Tavarez and give this guy a shot.

Is that two straight 5IP/10K performances? Gotta love that spiffy 18 K/9.

 

I agree. I thought he should have been the 5th starter out of the gate.

[a700hitter]

No s***?

 

It is, like your argument, foolish.

 

If you had any statistical insight to why Helton was better than Drew, I'd listen, but for now, I'll match you crap for crap.

When it comes to crap, you are more than my match.

[CrespoBlows]

When it comes to crap' date=' you are more than my match.[/quote']

 

Oh, that's right. Could you fill me in to your great points you made in this thread?