The Official Petition for the Release of Julian Tavares

[jacksonianmarch]

It's treatable and unless he is experiencing a flare up' date=' it shouldn't affect his performance.[/quote']

 

depends on the severity. It could also cause toxic megacolon and an increased succeptibility to cancer. And even when there is a flareup, he could lose 10-20 pounds easy, even with meds.

[ksushi]

700, please take a joke, and your assessment of Lester is awful. I think I bet for the turn around of the sox and I think you let me off because we had the worst rash of injuries since the biblical plagues... sort of reasonable... but if you want to make me pay for it now, go right ahead.

[a700hitter]

depends on the severity. It could also cause toxic megacolon and an increased succeptibility to cancer. And even when there is a flareup' date=' he could lose 10-20 pounds easy, even with meds.[/quote']My wife has had it for 10+ years, and I know a few others with it. Mostly, it's a manageable condition, especially at his age. You would hate it if we got him. If you read that we got him tomorrow, you'd throw up all day.

[jacksonianmarch]

My wife has had it for 10+ years' date=' and I know a few others with it. Mostly, it's a manageable condition, especially at his age. You would hate it if we got him. If you read that we got him tomorrow, you'd throw up all day.[/quote']

 

No I wouldnt get sick, but he would make you better for now. I would love it when you are hamstrung by his salary in about 3-4 yrs.

 

As far as the disease, your wife likely has a milder form. I have seen it get pretty bad in some, and I assisted in removing someone's colon because of it. (Laugh all you want, it was a gory and gross procedure).

[a700hitter]

No I wouldnt get sick' date=' but he would make you better for now. I would love it when you are hamstrung by his salary in about 3-4 yrs. [/quote']We could trade him in one or two years before he starts to s*** himself.

 

As far as the disease' date=' your wife likely has a milder form. I have seen it get pretty bad in some, and I assisted in removing someone's colon because of it. (Laugh all you want, it was a gory and gross procedure).[/quote']I'm not laughing at it. In it's most severe form, I guess it develops into Crohn's Disease. Most cases are manageable, and I am sure that Helton is getting the finest medical attention money can buy. And you woul get sick if we got him.

[a700hitter]

700' date=' please take a joke, and your assessment of Lester is awful. I think I bet for the turn around of the sox and I think you let me off because we had the worst rash of injuries since the biblical plagues... sort of reasonable... but if you want to make me pay for it now, go right ahead.[/quote']Duderino, my assessment of Lester was right on the money, when I saw him last ST. I said he didn't throw as hard as the reports and that his command was lacking. I was practically run from the board for those comments, but that is the Lester we all saw when he came up. Maybe it was the cancer. Maybe it wasn't. I don't expect him to have command right away and he'll be a 5 inning pitcher until he can adjust to the majors.

 

EDIT: That's not why I let you off. I just don't see the need for unecessarily humiliating someone.

[jacksonianmarch]

We could trade him in one or two years before he starts to s*** himself.

 

I'm not laughing at it. In it's most severe form, I guess it develops into Crohn's Disease. Most cases are manageable, and I am sure that Helton is getting the finest medical attention money can buy. And you woul get sick if we got him.

 

It wont develop into Crohn's disease. They are two distinctly different entities.

[jacksonianmarch]

and as far as dealing him 2 yrs in, who would want him if he shat the bed enough for you to want to deal him? He is nearly impossible to trade as is.

[a700hitter]

It wont develop into Crohn's disease. They are two distinctly different entities.

You are the doctor. I'll still take a first baseman with the gassy shits that has a .400 OBP.

[jacksonianmarch]

You are the doctor. I'll still take a first baseman with the gassy shits that has a .400 OBP.

 

HAHA. Got me there. Gassy shits, that is awesome.

 

either way, g'night.

[Plumpamania]

So, trade him at 35.

 

Is his stomach ailment a chronic or degenerative disease that will affect his performance? Is that "body" still in his elbow? He's 32. Papi is 31 and fat. Should we move him after this year?

 

Helton was injured the last two years and he still was a force. Now he is healthy.

 

Trade him at 35, when the Rockies couldn't deal him at 32? Explain that to me. And the difference is Papi hasn't lost almost 50 points on his OPS+. His HR production hasn't gone from 49 to 15, in Coors.

[a700hitter]

Trade him at 35' date=' when the Rockies couldn't deal him at 32? Explain that to me. And the difference is Papi hasn't lost almost 50 points on his OPS+. His HR production hasn't gone from 49 to 15, in Coors. [/color']

He still worth unloading Tavarez and Lowell's salaries and MDC and Hansen for two-thirds of his Helton's salary. Once his production goes up, we will not get him as cheaply.

[exsubmariner]

If given the chance' date=' you wouldnt replace Tavarez with Roger Clemens?[/quote']

 

Am not a big Clemens fan, I just have something against dominant pitchers in the regular season who become .500 pitchers in the post season.

[Plumpamania]

He still worth unloading Tavarez and Lowell's salaries and MDC and Hansen for two-thirds of his Helton's salary. Once his production goes up' date=' we will not get him as cheaply.[/quote']

 

Lowell is a FA at years end, and Tavares in 2 years. That's not worth 6 more years of $10 million a year for a 1Bman who's not hitting for power in Coors.

[jacksonianmarch]

Am not a big Clemens fan' date=' I just have something against dominant pitchers in the regular season who become .500 pitchers in the post season.[/quote']

 

He's 12-8 in the postseason.

[TheKilo]

He still worth unloading Tavarez and Lowell's salaries and MDC and Hansen for two-thirds of his Helton's salary. Once his production goes up' date=' we will not get him as cheaply.[/quote']

 

It's not worth the long-term commitment.

 

If he sucks we're stuck with him. His last few years indicate to me he's turned into a singles hitter.

 

Besides, where has it been said (source plz) that Tavarez, Lowell, MDC and Hansen will get it done?

 

edit - And if I'm trading four players for one I'd like to get something better than an aging Helton in return.

[CrespoBlows]

So' date=' trade him at 35.[/quote']

 

To who? If Helton performs well, we don't need to trade him, but if he's awful, who the hell is going to want him?

 

Is his stomach ailment a chronic or degenerative disease that will affect his performance? Is that "body" still in his elbow?

 

Could sap his power, which is already occuring.

 

He's 32.

 

http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_id=115732

 

Incorrect. He's 34.

 

Papi is 31 and fat. Should we move him after this year?

 

Quit being ridiculous. Do you see Ortiz's weight affecting his performance? Do you see Helton's injury causing a major decline?

 

Helton was injured the last two years and he still was a force. Now he is healthy.

 

C'mon. Look at the stats just once in a while. That "force" had an OPS+ of only 11 points higher than Youkilis.

[a700hitter]

Trade him at 35' date=' when the Rockies couldn't deal him at 32? Explain that to me. And the difference is Papi hasn't lost almost 50 points on his OPS+. His HR production hasn't gone from 49 to 15, in Coors. [/color']

It should be easier for Boston to get rid of him, because we'll be paying him only half to two-thirds of his salary. We would be discounting of a big discount from his original contract.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

It should be easier for Boston to get rid of him' date=' because we'll be paying him only half to two-thirds of his salary. We would be discounting of a big discount from his original contract.[/quote']

 

Good point.

[a700hitter]

And if I'm trading four players for one I'd like to get something better than an aging Helton in return.

Lowell and Tavarez are both overpaid so getting rid of their contracts would be a plus. MDC and Hansen are like giving up nothing. They stink.

[a700hitter]

To who? If Helton performs well' date=' we don't need to trade him, but if he's awful, who the hell is going to want him?[/quote']It's rarely that black and white. They might trade him because he doesn't fit in, or they don't win a WC with him in the first two years and they want to go in a different direction, or several other reasons.

[a700hitter]

Incorrect. He's 34.

Correction. He is 33.

That "force" had an OPS+ of only 11 points higher than Youkilis.

His stats will blow aw?y Youk's this year. You'll see. Shall I kick your ass in another bet?

[TheKilo]

It's rarely that black and white. They might trade him because he doesn't fit in' date=' or they don't win a WC with him in ther first two years and they want to go in a different direction, or several other reasons.[/quote']

 

If Helton sucks and continues his precipitous decline who can the Sox trade him to?

[TGov]

Lowell and Tavarez are both overpaid so getting rid of their contracts would be a plus. MDC and Hansen are like giving up nothing. They stink.

 

I would definitely want more than just an aging Helton if I'm giving up my starting third base, #5 pitcher (can't believe i just called Tavarez that) and two of my young pitchers, one who may become a future closer... that is if those 4 were to be enough to get Helton...

 

Garrett Atkins would be a great pick up instead of Helton, younger and getting better...

AVG .329, 120 RBIs, 117 Runs, 29 HRs... in '06...

[a700hitter]

If Helton sucks and continues his precipitous decline who can the Sox trade him to?

You think that a guy who each and every year has a .400 OPB is in a precipitous decline? You have some lofty expectations. Who has done that on the current Red Sox.

[a700hitter]

Garrett Atkins would be a great pick up instead of Helton, younger and getting better...

AVG .329, 120 RBIs, 117 Runs, 29 HRs... in '06...

The Rockie GM would have to be an idiot to give up a young star for a bunch of has beens and du d prospects.

[TheKilo]

You think that a guy who each and every year has a .400 OPB is in a precipitous decline? You have some lofty expectations. Who has done that on the current Red Sox.

 

Sigh. His slugging has been declining tremendously the last few years.

 

Do you want a $15 million singles hitter?

 

The Rockie GM would have to be an idiot to give up a young star for a bunch of has beens and du d prospects.

 

So why would he do the same for Helton, who in your words is "a superstar"?

[CrespoBlows]

His stats will blow awáy Youk's this year. You'll see. Shall I kick your ass in another bet?

 

Again, no one said that Helton was worse than Youkilis. There just isn't the major difference you insist there is. (If we are to make a bet, we have to adjust for ballpark difficulties)

 

I'm desperately searching to find an instance where you've beat me in a bet? I'm trying to find something where you and I even made a bet. Is this another instance, where your perception is failing you terribly?

[CrespoBlows]

You think that a guy who each and every year has a .400 OPB is in a precipitous decline? You have some lofty expectations. Who has done that on the current Red Sox.

 

Todd Helton OPS+ numbers:

 

2003: 168

2004: 159

2005: 144

2006: 119

2007: 115 (small sample size)

 

Todd Helton EQA numbers:

 

2003: .339

2004: .344

2005: .326

2006: .297

 

Todd Helton OPS:

 

2003: 1.088

2004: 1.088

2005: .979

2006: .880

 

Seriously, how much more stats do I have to show you before you yield the point? Also, this is in Coors Field, an offensive player's paradise.

[Plumpamania]

It should be easier for Boston to get rid of him' date=' because we'll be paying him only half to two-thirds of his salary. We would be discounting of a big discount from his original contract.[/quote']

 

The Rockies picking up his contract will only exist if he's a member of the Red Sox. The same way if the Yankees trade Alex Rodriguez, the full contract goes to the next team unless the Yankees pick up part of the tab. The Yankees are only paying ARod $16 million of the $23 million.

 

Let's say Helton is traded to us, and the Rockies pay $6 million of the $16 million he's owed every year. So we only pay $10 million (decent for 3 years tops of Helton's current production) and we try to trade him after two years (he would still have a no trade clause from the original contract in it), the Rockies would no longer be liable for the $6 million per year.

 

We'd have to pick up the minimum per year that the Rockies did, since Helton would be 2 years older and possible further production slacking.

 

Bad, bad idea.