Yanks invite Bernie to ST

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

Bernie Williams' great Yankees career just might end with a soap opera he didn't bargain for.

 

SI.com has learned that the Yankees have made Williams a standing offer to come to spring training as a non-guaranteed minor-league invite. While this wasn't anything close to what he was hoping or looking for, all indications are that he is considering the proposal.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/01/31/williams.yankees/index.html

[TheKilo]

I hope he goes.

[jacksonianmarch]

I had heard a rumor that Melky might actually be sent to AAA to start the yr so he can get regular ABs and Bernie would win the 4th OF spot. I hope it isnt true. I love Bernie, but he is a liability now.

[TheKilo]

I had heard a rumor that Melky might actually be sent to AAA to start the yr so he can get regular ABs and Bernie would win the 4th OF spot. I hope it isnt true. I love Bernie' date=' but he is a liability now.[/quote']

 

I hope he goes.

[Jeff04]

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9987156

 

Bernie doesn't want to accept a minor league deal and says he probably won't play for the yanks in 07. I'm surprised he doens't just retire, it would be really weird to see Bernie play for another team...

[BSN07]

http://www.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9987156

 

Bernie doesn't want to accept a minor league deal and says he probably won't play for the yanks in 08. I'm surprised he doens't just retire, it would be really weird to see Bernie play for another team...

 

 

You mean in 07. He will keep in shape and wait for the inevitable to happen, someone will go down with an injury and then theyll probably add him to the roster at that point. The only other team I could see going after him is the Cubs. they could use Bernie as a one yr stop gap for Felix Pie. But I really don't see him going to another team.

[jacksonianmarch]

BSN, their OF is loaded and Sori is likely to be their CF in CHC. Murton in LF, Floyd in LF, Jones in RF. Absolutely stacked in the OF. He could do well for himself in ANA where they will be without Juan Rivera for a small portion of the yr as the DH. Other than that, he doesnt project as an OFer anymore. His weak arm kills any shot of him being a RF. His horrible range kills any chance of being a CF. And his bat isnt good enough to fit into LF. It is sad really. He did have a pretty good yr last yr, the type of yr you would think he could walk off into the sunset on. He's a damn good role model, and the kids who are coming up likely grew up watching him play in pinstripes. He would be a great influence on a kid like Tabata in CF or Gardner, etc. But he has to face the facts. He's a DH or a LFer on a crappy team. The Yankees lineup is loaded. Their backups are better than Bernie. He has to face facts one day.

 

But please, Bernie, retire. I'd love for there to be a Bernie Williams day or something where we can retire his # and officially say goodbye. Nobody should every wear #51 again in the bronx.

[BSN07]

Hes def. earned that.

[jacksonianmarch]

Hes def. earned that.

 

I know the red sox have certain policies about retiring numbers. Dont you have to be in the HOF? Either way, Bernie will be a fringe HOFer. His career avg slipped below .300 this past yr. But for 8 straight yrs he was over .300 and had 18+HR. He had 287 career HR. 1257RBI. 147 career SB. .858OPS career. .381OBP. From 96-02 (7 seasons) his OPS was above .900. In that same span he had 94 or more RBI in each of those yrs. He has the stats to justify it, but they arent overwhelming enough to get him in based on regular season alone.

 

His postseason #s might. Playoff career leader in HRs, RBI will help. He was the best hitter on a yankee team for 4 WS wins and 5 appearances. He likely was the best CFer in baseball for a 7 yr span. He's got the 4GG's they will like to see. He never finished higher than 10th in MVP voting which will hurt him, but he made the top 20 5 times. (I still find it hard to believe he finished 10th in MVP voting in 1999 when he hit .342 25HR 125RBI for a world championship calibre team).

 

He will get the # retired. I think he might get in on a late ballot to the HOF or even in Veterans committee.

[jacksonianmarch]

what will be interesting is when #2 (Jeter) and #6 (Torre) get retired, the yankees will have #1-#10 retired with 2 guys being retired as #8 (Berra and Dickey).

[Fried Neckbones]

I know the red sox have certain policies about retiring numbers. Dont you have to be in the HOF?

 

HOF with 10 years as a Red Sox.

 

It's pretty damn hard to get a Sox number retired, especially these days.

[TheKilo]

HOF with 10 years as a Red Sox.

 

It's pretty damn hard to get a Sox number retired, especially these days.

 

 

Pedro's will, no doubt.

[BSN07]

Did Pedro play for us for 10 yrs? What about Clemens? Wakefield is third in team history in Wins and has been here longer then 10yrs. I would have to think they might consider Manny too. And if ortiz plays for us for another 6yrs and play like he has the past 4 then he might get considered too.

[TheKilo]

Did Pedro play for us for 10 yrs? What about Clemens? Wakefield is third in team history in Wins and has been here longer then 10yrs. I would have to think they might consider Manny too. And if ortiz plays for us for another 6yrs and play like he has the past 4 then he might get considered too.

 

What does it matter? If the FO does not retire #45 something is very, very wrong.

 

Wakefield won't make the HoF, so that's a moot point.

[HeadOfSoxNation]

Did Pedro play for us for 10 yrs? What about Clemens? Wakefield is third in team history in Wins and has been here longer then 10yrs. I would have to think they might consider Manny too. And if ortiz plays for us for another 6yrs and play like he has the past 4 then he might get considered too.

 

Petey was only here from 98-04...so unless they change the rules, he's out. They won't think twice about Wake's...I like Wake, but he's always been a slightly above average pitcher, nothing retirement-worthy, and, he's not a start-and-finish with the Sox guy. If Ortiz plays another 6 years like he has the past 4, the Sox should rename the damn stadium after him. Manny's'll get retired no doubt if he finishes out 10 years here, considering he'll be one of the top 10 hitters ever...with all the trade talks, though...one's gotta wonder if he'll make the 10 year cut. He's only been here since '01.

[TheKilo]

If you can't bend the rules for the years Pedro had here...well...you're an idiot.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pedro will go into the HOF as a Red Sox and if he doesnt have his # retired while a big B sits on his cap in Cooperstown, JH and Lucchino should be lined up and shot.

[jacksonianmarch]

Clemens SHOULD be in the hall as a Red Sox, but at least he has a case to go in as a yankee. He won a WS in NY, he got his 300th win in NY, but he should technically go in as a Red Sox. His # should most certainly be retired in Boston as well. It really is too bad about their rules. Rice's # should be retired as well. Hopefully his will be next yr (he should be in the hall, no doubt in my mind).

[example1]

HOF with 10 years as a Red Sox.

 

It's pretty damn hard to get a Sox number retired, especially these days.

 

Pedro won't get it.

 

At this rate Manny probably won't get his retired, and Ortiz would need to sign for at least one year past his current contract (including options) to get retired. I can't imagine Ortiz and Manny not having their numbers retired... depending on how long it takes the sox to move Manny. However, Cleveland has every right to retire his number too, as he was in their organization for 10 seasons, making appearances with the big club 8 of those years.

 

It is possible that neither will have their numbers hanging in fenway... that would be a shame. I think those three are worth reevaluating the criteria for. Manny is certainly deserving but he may choose/prefer Cleveland, but Ortiz is Boston's boy, and Pedro was the greatest while in boston.

[jacksonianmarch]

Manny and Ortiz were/are the best 1-2 punch in red sox history. The best 1-2 punch since the Babe and Gehrig. Not having their jerseys retired is spitting on the history of the franchise. Manny and Pedro are sure fire, 1st ballot HOFers. Ortiz has a longer road ahead, but is certainly within reach. They epitomized the red sox lone WS victory in 88 yrs. They should be honored as such when they are done.

[a700hitter]

Agreed. Pedro, Manny and Ortiz should have their numbers retired. Their accomplishments were historical. I still maintain that a strong argument can be made based on Lg Adj ERA, h/9, Whip, k's/9, and Winning % that Pedro is the best pitcher of all time. I've never seen a 1-2 punch like Manny and Ortiz. Unless you've seen Gehrig and Ruth no one has seen anything comparable.

[example1]

Agreed. Pedro' date=' Manny and Ortiz should have their numbers retired. Their accomplishments were historical. I still maintain that a strong argument can be made based on Lg Adj ERA, h/9, Whip, k's/9, and Winning % that Pedro is the best pitcher of all time. I've never seen a 1-2 punch like Manny and Ortiz. Unless you've seen Gehrig and Ruth no one has seen anything comparable.[/quote']

 

I would LOVE to see a game pitting a team based on Gehrig and Ruth against a Ramirez and Ortiz led team. They absolutely deserve to get their numbers retired, but as currently constructed the Sox criteria will not allow it. Hopefully they will adapt new, stringent but appropriate guidelines.

 

Pedro had a 4 season stretch where game in and game out you might put him on the mound over Christy Matthewson or Walter Johnson or Sandy Koufax or Bob Gibson in their primes. For two seasons that list gets limited to Koufax. Adjusting for 'roids and power hitters and all that stuff Pedro was absolutely amazing.

[jacksonianmarch]

Agreed. Pedro' date=' Manny and Ortiz should have their numbers retired. Their accomplishments were historical. I still maintain that a strong argument can be made based on Lg Adj ERA, h/9, Whip, k's/9, and Winning % that Pedro is the best pitcher of all time. I've never seen a 1-2 punch like Manny and Ortiz. Unless you've seen Gehrig and Ruth no one has seen anything comparable.[/quote']

 

the only guys you could make an argument for would be Gibson and Koufax. I dont care how high the mound is, if you put up a 1.12ERA over 300+ innings, you are god.

[a700hitter]

the only guys you could make an argument for would be Gibson and Koufax. I dont care how high the mound is' date=' if you put up a 1.12ERA over 300+ innings, you are god.[/quote']High mound, pitchers batting, 6 NL and 7 AL teams had sub 3 ERAs and 6 other starters had sub 2 ERAs. Gibson was a God, but when you do the adjustments Pedro was more amazing. The truly amazing thing about Gibson's season is not so much that he had the 1.12 ERA, but that he threw 306 innings and had 13 Shutouts.

[jacksonianmarch]

as much as I hated Pedro, he was probably the most dominant pitcher I had even seen in the AL. No doubt. Clemens can be lauded for his dominance over time, but in that 4 yr span for Pedro, he was in another league. And with the leagues the way they are and with the batting the way it is, if you wanted to call him the most dominant pitcher over a 4 yr span of all time, I wouldnt have any problem with it. Even past that span he as dominant. Imagine if he had a bigger frame to assist his velocity into his older yrs. He'd still be nasty. He was by far the smartest pitcher I have seen, and I watched Maddux a lot 10 yrs ago. Martinez could crack one off your knuckles, chuck a deadly change on the outside corner then throw that nasty slurvy pitch on the down and in. All balls, he was a legend and I am glad I got to see him pitch, even if it was for my teams most hated rival.

[ORS]

I remember reading somewhere that if you put the '00 Pedro on an NL team in that timeframe on Diamond Mind, that he comes up with a sub-1 era. Pedro of '97-'00 is the Everest of pitching, IMO.

[jacksonianmarch]

I dont think anyone could dispute that ORS. He was unbelievable.

[ARod2212]

Sick. He was absolutely sick. It was really a priviledge to watch him in his prime. The only thing I really hold against him is his head hunting reputation. He was really the best pitcher I've ever seen.

[TheKilo]

Like I said, if JWH and Company don't have a big #45 circle in RF before its all said and done, they're idiots.

[BSN07]

What does it matter? If the FO does not retire #45 something is very, very wrong.

 

Wakefield won't make the HoF, so that's a moot point.

 

 

It matters because the Sox rule states you have to be on the team for 10yrs and in the HOF. So as of right now hes is s*** out of luck.