End Of Helton Discussions

[Rodney Harrison]

The Monforts are the worst owners in the NL and possibly all of MLB.

[TheKilo]

C'mon now, that's a lame argument. Manny also gets paid $5M more per season than Helton. Based on your logic I could counter with the field dimensions:

 

 

Fenway: RF - 302, LF - 315

 

Coors: RF - 318, LF - 315 (Adjusted for altitude figures, actual dimensions are deeper)

 

My point simply is, the Sox franchise player is Manny, the Rockies franchise player is Helton. Both GM's are unwilling to trade their franchise player for run of the mill (in Lowell's case declining skills) type players. The Rockies have a plethora of young talent getting ready to break into the Major Leagues. They would love to dump Helton's salary (despite what their GM says), but not at the cost of declining attendance and disgruntled fans. He has to give the fans and Helton's teammates something in return for Helton. Lowell and Tavarez do not measure up to that commitment. Theo on the other hand knows the impact of trading away your young talent and is unwilling to repeat that mistake.

 

Manny has not showed the decline Helton has...and Helton played in the best offensive park in baseball during his peak years.

 

Soooo....it's not really a lame argument.

[BoSox21]

nice to know they're still willing to up the payroll by another $10 mil or so if they balk at making a trade deadline deal again

[riverside sluggers]

Nation

 

How is the Colorado GM's thinking any different than Theo's when he was shopping Manny? He stated many times that Manny would have to bring top tier players/prospects and his annual contract is higher than Helton's.

 

When Manny first began asking for a trade up until this current offseason, something remained consistent... he's still the same player capable of 30+ HRs/125+ RBIs

[ksushi]

Manny has showed zero signs of slowing down. Thats why Manny commands more on the trade market.

[hoke3182]

Hey look a it this way, at least the sox should make a strong push for Clemens if thier willing to spend all that money on Helton. At least I would think.

[redsoxrules]

Hey look a it this way' date=' at least the sox should make a strong push for Clemens if thier willing to spend all that money on Helton. At least I would think.[/quote']

 

i hope not i hope he retires

[hoke3182]

i hope not i hope he retires

Why? To tell you the truth if he ends up with the astros,yankees or sox I don't care. He is a baseball icon and I'd love to see him pitch as long as he can keep up with the younger generation. If his ship as passed then so be it but till then I hope he keeps throwing every fifth day.

[RobZombie]

I applaud the Red Sox for sticking to their guns on this one.

 

Look-- Kevin Millar was "in the best shape of his life" coming into the 2005 season when he was the worst first baseman in baseball, offensively and defensively. I don't put much stock in players SAYING their "finally healthy" until they actually do something on the field that actually proves it.

 

For the most part I agree with this. In this case there is certainly a mitigating factor. Helton had a serious stomach ailment last year that most certainly effected his play throughout the year. Its not an ailment that's likely to reoccur.

 

I think its fair to give him a mulligan for last year much like you'd give Curt Schilling a mulligan for 2003.

[Youk Of The Nation]

The Monforts are the worst owners in the NL and possibly all of MLB.

 

The Orioles would like to have a word with you.

[jacksonianmarch]

The Orioles would like to have a word with you.

 

haha, Devil Rays as well. And the Mariners and Nats, etc etc etc.

[Rodney Harrison]

The Orioles would like to have a word with you.

That's why I added the NL part.

 

There's not enough time to pass judgment on Theodore Lerner as Nats owner, but MLB was pretty s***** in dealing with the ExpoNationals.

[jacksonianmarch]

Todd Helton has been quoted in the Denver Post as saying that he will now invoke his NTC until the end of his contract. There is some speculation that the talks will resume in ST, but if Helton is true to his word, he will not be going anywhere but to the bottom of the standings every single yr in Colorado until he is no longer useful.

[Mr Crunchy]

his hr totals have been cut in half

since roid testing began he has lost 34 homeruns off his career high

if im not mistaken lowell had more extra base hits than helton last season while playing a gold glove type 3rd base

helton is a better offensive option however with his contract and obvious decline in power i shed no tears over this guy staying put

[rician blast]

his hr totals have been cut in half

since roid testing began he has lost 34 homeruns off his career high

if im not mistaken lowell had more extra base hits than helton last season while playing a gold glove type 3rd base

helton is a better offensive option however with his contract and obvious decline in power i shed no tears over this guy staying put

 

agreed. In fact, while I don't put them on equal ground by any means, his '06 numbers weren't that much better than Youk's (considering the huge difference in salary).

 

I'd rather have Nick Johnson at his salary of approx. $5.5m per year. The Nats would expect a LOT in return for him though and I doubt they're considering moving him.

[Mr Crunchy]

i took a lot of heat for this opinion over in the degenerate forum james

i dont see the attraction nor the glory in landing another dh type for 5 more years

we already have a gigantic question mark in drew and these guys have almost identitcal #s

 

im glad theyre letting it go

[BSN07]

I was all for getting Helton as long as we didn't empty the farm to get him. COL was trying a salary dump I don't care what they say, and when your dumping salary on another team they shouldn't get any top prospects like there where insisting upon. If your only taking 30M or so of a 90M contract you get 2nd tier guys, example, the Abreu trade for the NYY. Them asking for some of our top guys was obserd and I'm glad Theo put his foot down. Lucchino was the one pushing for the deal to get done, I'm really not starting to like him, he seems to be turning out to be one of those win at all cost right now and sink the future of the team.

[Mr Crunchy]

this is the problem with the 07 sox

theyre rudderless

 

no direction and no clue outside of the goal to win which every team has

consider the short stop position then lets look at the signings of drew and attempt to get helton over here??

 

then think of us being in 1st place last summer when theo announced we dont have the capability to compete with ny year in and year out fiscally speaking.

 

it drives me nuts

[BSN07]

Come on, they new last yr they didn;t have a special team. There was no one available that would have helped them(pitching). Soriano would have been nice fort he offense but would have cost three top prospects, the FO mailed it in last yr and looked forward to 07. There was nothing out there that would have helped the Sox make the playoffs, and in stead of making alot of trades and dumping the farm system in a last ditch effort they held on to them and threw in the towel without actually coming flat out and saying it. But they had to say something, and thats where the hole we are not the NYY thing came from.

 

As far as Helton goes, Luchinno was they one pushing for the trade, Theo is trying to give this organization a rudder and direction by building from withing. Larry has Steinyitus, after winning one WS he wants to get an all star at every position and sell off all the young unproven talent. Think of it this way, would you want to sell off all the farm players and have a all star at every position like the NYY? Ya we have a great teamn ut no chemistry and always lose in the PO.

[jacksonianmarch]

Come on, they new last yr they didn;t have a special team. There was no one available that would have helped them(pitching). Soriano would have been nice fort he offense but would have cost three top prospects, the FO mailed it in last yr and looked forward to 07. There was nothing out there that would have helped the Sox make the playoffs, and in stead of making alot of trades and dumping the farm system in a last ditch effort they held on to them and threw in the towel without actually coming flat out and saying it. But they had to say something, and thats where the hole we are not the NYY thing came from.

 

As far as Helton goes, Luchinno was they one pushing for the trade, Theo is trying to give this organization a rudder and direction by building from withing. Larry has Steinyitus, after winning one WS he wants to get an all star at every position and sell off all the young unproven talent. Think of it this way, would you want to sell off all the farm players and have a all star at every position like the NYY? Ya we have a great teamn ut no chemistry and always lose in the PO.

 

I see you bought the spin. You dont need a "special" team to win. You have a guy like Abreu coming up in the market. A guy who the other team essentially asks for a couple long shot long range prospects so they can buy the hype in Philly while all you need to do is pony up the cash to get him. With him, they were willing to include Cory Lidle who would have helped shore up the back end of the rotation. And all you have to do is finance it. He is under contract for another yr with an option for 08, so you essentially control him short term at a hefty pricetag. At the same time, you watch him go to NY while you KNEW he was ticketed there if you didnt do anything. Think about it bosox, Abreu made the yankees an offensive machine. He is 33 right now. He will hit near .300, he'll hit 20 or more HRs, he'll drive in 100 runs, he'll score 100 runs, he'll steal 30 bases, he'll play stellar D in RF, AND he will take the field every single day. Essentially, they passed up on Abreu at 1.5yrs and 24 mil (2.5 and 40mil if they exercised the option) for Drew at 5yrs 70 mil. And Drew doesnt have as good of an eye as Abreu, as good an average as Abreu, as good speed as Abreu and we wont take the field as much as Abreu does. That was a major league disaster.

 

If they entered this season with WMP in RF stating that they were focusing on cutting cost and focusing elsewhere like as SS and SP, then they you could believe them, because their actions would follow their words. But that isnt the case. They throw more money and years at a guy who plays the same position only 4 months after the "we are not the yankees" concession. There is no excuse. No "they didnt have a special team". It was them making a big mistake and watching their principle rivals benefit from it.

 

Also, the 5 game sweep was the anchor that sunk your 06 season to the depths. Abreu hit .500 in that series. With him on the red sox vs the yankees, it would have been a very different finale to the yr.

[BSN07]

O well there aint nothing we can do about it now, they changed there MO over the winter because staying in 3rd place won't keep the seats full. I look at the 5 game blunder as a turning point in the organization, hopefully for the better.

[jacksonianmarch]

O well there aint nothing we can do about it now' date=' they changed there MO over the winter because staying in 3rd place won't keep the seats full. I look at the 5 game blunder as a turning point in the organization, hopefully for the better.[/quote']

 

we shall see. I remember the 04 mantra was fire all cannons, ie this will be it for the next few yrs. They opened the purse to nab schilling and foulke and went for the gusto. At the same time, they then dismantled that team and went cheap. I know the sox didnt drop in payroll, but they would have had to raise payroll to afford to keep that team together, something they obviously were not willing to do. Now after a competitive but disappointing 05 and a whitewash finish to 06, the sox may be "firing all their cannons" again. Who knows if this is an every 3 yr thing, but the team is still far from being solid in every aspect, and closing off the cash flow now could be an overexpensive blunder.

[Mr Crunchy]

special teams??

may i remind everyone that st louis has the world series trophy with jeff weaver as their ace and david eckstein their muscle.....

 

get to october and anything is possible

 

when your in 1st place on june 30th as the yankees were decimated with injuries i thought it may be worth it to try and work a jon smoltz or a jason schmidt out of one of the floundering teams and make a legit run for it....

 

instead we were told that we didnt have the financial resources

 

which essentially is f***ing ******** based on the coin that theyve been laying out this winter

[rician blast]

Crunch, I too am glad they're not going down that avenue, I don't see the brilliance in that move, especially when, despite Helton playing in Colorado, Drew is tied with Helton for HR's over the last two years, despite playing 73 games less.

 

Too much risk in Helton considering his price tag.

[Mr Crunchy]

not just the price but # of years and obvious decline in power

we're heading down ny blvd

trying to build the 2000 all star team doesnt help in 07

[Gator For MVP]

The Denver Post reports that Todd Helton has told the Rockies he is prepared to veto all future trades for the next five years.

Could such a statement motivate the Rockies to do the deal with the Red Sox without getting a quality prospect in addition to Mike Lowell and Julian Tavarez? Talks are dead now, but they could be revisited if that's the Rockies' desire.