Akinori Iwamura??

[redsoxrules]

4.88, and the league average was 4.92? That would indicate that he has slightly below average range, no?

 

 

 

And how the f*** do you know this? I'll take the words of sabermetrics and scouts over you, any day of the week.

 

wow thats really below average .04 wow that really sucks

 

and you dont think jeter is a good defender?

[ORS]

No. The principle behind RF is that in a large enough sample every player at the same position will see the same number of balls and the same types. Nubbers they have to charge, hard hit balls into the hole, deep IF pops, over time every SS sees the same number per inning in the field of these. It is not a perfect stat due to this assumption. In small samples, your idea of a variance of opportunity is true, but over careers it is a decent stat, moreso now than in the past due to the high amount of player turnover.

 

Loretta's 4.88 means nothing by itself. Actually, that is not true. It means he made 4.88 outs per 9 innings. But, without perspective that tells us nothing. The league average in the AL was 4.92, so he was slightly below average.

 

Now something else to consider, when trying to determine just the player's range, is F%. RF is dependent on how sure handed the player is. Loretta made very few errors, which is good, but in his RF that actually hides some of his range defficiency.

 

Saying Jeter doesn't perform well in fielding metrics due solely to less opportunities is a flat out fabrication. ZR, FRAA, F%, and UZR also all rate him below average for his career.

[CrespoBlows]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/jeterde01.php

 

Take a look, Jeter's constantly been awful until the last two years.

[Mr Crunchy]

ya but didnt he win a gold glove crespo??

 

that means hes the best at the position doesnt it??

 

as far as the glove goes

nobody in baseball is better than agon and i think ocab and the purple lipped polesmoker who plays 3rd base in ny are better than jetsey

[redsoxrules]

No. The principle behind RF is that in a large enough sample every player at the same position will see the same number of balls and the same types. Nubbers they have to charge, hard hit balls into the hole, deep IF pops, over time every SS sees the same number per inning in the field of these. It is not a perfect stat due to this assumption. In small samples, your idea of a variance of opportunity is true, but over careers it is a decent stat, moreso now than in the past due to the high amount of player turnover.

 

Loretta's 4.88 means nothing by itself. Actually, that is not true. It means he made 4.88 outs per 9 innings. But, without perspective that tells us nothing. The league average in the AL was 4.92, so he was slightly below average.

 

Now something else to consider, when trying to determine just the player's range, is F%. RF is dependent on how sure handed the player is. Loretta made very few errors, which is good, but in his RF that actually hides some of his range defficiency.

 

Saying Jeter doesn't perform well in fielding metrics due solely to less opportunities is a flat out fabrication. ZR, FRAA, F%, and UZR also all rate him below average for his career.

 

good points

so ORS what do you think about DER as the team goes? do you think poor pitching will affect it or not

[CrespoBlows]

good points

so ORS what do you think about DER as the team goes? do you think poor pitching will affect it or not

 

The Nationals had poor pitching, yet they finished 12th in DER. The Cubs did too, they finished 6th.

 

Ask yourself this, if the Red Sox had Cano, Furcal, and Ichiro manning SS, 2B, and RF. Where would we be ranked in DER?

 

I direct that question to everybody.

[CrespoBlows]

ya but didnt he win a gold glove crespo??

 

that means hes the best at the position doesnt it??

 

as far as the glove goes

nobody in baseball is better than agon and i think ocab and the purple lipped polesmoker who plays 3rd base in ny are better than jetsey

 

I agree. Gonzalez is a wizard with the glove, but is he the best defender? There are probably 10-15 better ones.

[redsoxrules]

The Nationals had poor pitching, yet they finished 12th in DER. The Cubs did too, they finished 6th.

 

Ask yourself this, if the Red Sox had Cano, Furcal, and Ichiro manning SS, 2B, and RF. Where would we be ranked in DER?

 

I direct that question to everybody.

 

the cubs pitching staff allowed the second lowest hits alowed , obviously the less hits you allow the better DER your gonna get , and not to mention they led in K's wich helps alot too so less ball in play

[ORS]

good points

so ORS what do you think about DER as the team goes? do you think poor pitching will affect it or not

 

I think poor pitching can affect it. DER is essentially the BABIP of the pitching staff. BABIP is a gauge of how hard the ball is getting hit, IMO, and harder hit balls find a hole much more often. Bad pitching gives up more hard hit balls, typically, so that would raise the BABIP and DER.

[ORS]

The Nationals had poor pitching, yet they finished 12th in DER. The Cubs did too, they finished 6th.

 

Ask yourself this, if the Red Sox had Cano, Furcal, and Ichiro manning SS, 2B, and RF. Where would we be ranked in DER?

 

I direct that question to everybody.

Without adding in the marginal outs, and just using my impression of their range, I'd say it would put the DER in the top 10.

[ORS]

the cubs pitching staff allowed the second lowest hits alowed ' date=' obviously the less hits you allow the better DER your gonna get , and not to mention they led in K's wich helps alot too so less ball in play[/quote']

I don't think the K's help by reducing the balls in play because the DER is the rate at which they convert balls in play into outs. That rate is likely to remain constant regardless of the number of opportunities. What high K rates indicate to me is the ability to miss bats, meaning they also probably induce weaker contact, thus a lower BABIP and lower DER.

[redsoxrules]

I think poor pitching can affect it. DER is essentially the BABIP of the pitching staff. BABIP is a gauge of how hard the ball is getting hit' date=' IMO, and harder hit balls find a hole much more often. Bad pitching gives up more hard hit balls, typically, so that would raise the BABIP and DER.[/quote']

 

and thats the point im trying to get across that the sox pitching is a reason why their DER was low

 

and crespo the other way around as well if the sox had a top notch rotation where would their DER had been honestly? top 10 in my opinion

[CrespoBlows]

and thats the point im trying to get across that the sox pitching is a reason why their DER was low

 

and crespo the other way around as well if the sox had a top notch rotation where would their DER had been honestly? top 10 in my opinion

 

Top 10? I'd say 15 to 20. You still have to deal with the Red Sox lack of range. Ramirez, Crisp, Pena, Loretta, and Gonzalez.