Akinori Iwamura??

[redsoxrules]

the redsox also finished 1st in fielding percentage wich i find is the most important statistic is defense

 

edit: also they were tied for third in DP

 

the sox defense was verry great last year

 

poor pitching will have an affect on DER wich is why the sox were 28th in that category

[TheKilo]

the redsox also finished 1st in fielding percentage wich i find is the most important statistic is defense

 

edit: also they were tied for third in DP

 

the sox defense was verry great last year

 

poor pitching will have an affect on DER wich is why the sox were 28th in that category

 

 

Fielding % only takes into account the balls they get to.

 

As a defense, the Sox had very poor range last year.

[CrespoBlows]

the redsox also finished 1st in fielding percentage wich i find is the most important statistic is defense

 

Sigh. Candians... I keep forgetting how far behind you guys are.

 

If Player A were to field two balls all year, but allow 1,000 others to go left and right of him, the FLD % would be 1.000. Is Player A a good defensive player?

 

poor pitching will have an affect on DER wich is why the sox were 28th in that category

 

Ha. You're completely wrong. Poor range hurts DER the most.

[redsoxrules]

Fielding % only takes into account the balls they get to.

 

As a defense, the Sox had very poor range last year.

 

 

exactly they couldn't get to the ball because the pitching sucked , jeez are you gonna get to a ball thats hit 15 feet over your head or 15 feet to the left or right of you ?

[redsoxrules]

Sigh. Candians... I keep forgetting how far behind you guys are.

 

If Player A were to field two balls all year, but allow 1,000 others to go left and right of him, the FLD % would be 1.000. Is Player A a good defensive player?

 

 

 

Ha. You're completely wrong. Poor range hurts DER the most.

 

so if a ball is hit 15 feet to the left of you and you cant get it its your fault ?

[TheKilo]

exactly they couldn't get to the ball because the pitching sucked ' date=' jeez are you gonna get to a ball thats hit 15 feet over your head or 15 feet to the left or right of you ?[/quote']

 

...

 

If the ball is hit 15 feet to the right of the SS the 3b should field it, no?

 

The Red Sox, as a team, fielded the balls they got to last year very well. They just didn't get to enough of them.

[CrespoBlows]

so if a ball is hit 15 feet to the left of you and you cant get it its your fault ?

 

No, we're talking about the balls that shortstops with great range can get to. Gonzalez, and Loretta do not have great range. They can make the play hit near them, but going toward the hole, they have trouble getting to it.

[CrespoBlows]

exactly they couldn't get to the ball because the pitching sucked ' date=' jeez are you gonna get to a ball thats hit 15 feet over your head or 15 feet to the left or right of you ?[/quote']

 

If that was the case, then there would be a correlation, in which the teams with the best pitching staff had the best fielders, and the worst pitching staff had the worst fielders.

 

The Royals had the worst staff in baseball, but Mark Teahen was a good fielder. So were Tejada, and Adrian Beltre.

[redsoxrules]

No' date=' we're talking about the balls that shortstops with great range can get to. Gonzalez, and Loretta do not have great range. They can make the play hit near them, but going toward the hole, they have trouble getting to it.[/quote']

 

every f***ing ball that is hit except for homeruns is counted towards the DER , did you know that?its not just the balls that are hit in the infeild , so if you look at san diego padres who had excelent pitching this year . oh wait what do you know they were number 1 in DER cause their pitchers only allowed 1385 hits wich was fewest in the league , oh wait lets go to number 2 in DER NY mets who also had great pitching ,number 3 in DER detroit tigers also had great pitching do you see the f***ing trend there? great pitching will give you great DER cause like i said every single ball hit except homeruns counts towards DER so if you have pitchers that sucks like boston did last year , who BTW allowed 1570 hits wich was 6th most in the league btw, of corse your DER will suck

[redsoxrules]

If that was the case, then there would be a correlation, in which the teams with the best pitching staff had the best fielders, and the worst pitching staff had the worst fielders.

 

The Royals had the worst staff in baseball, but Mark Teahen was a good fielder. So were Tejada, and Adrian Beltre.

 

holy f*** it dosent matter if mark teahan was good or tejada was good DER measures the team stat overall. DER is a team thing not a players thing . DER =The percent of times a batted ball is turned into an out by the teams’ fielders ( dosent matter where the ball was hit ) so again if you have a team that has bad pitching wich allows alot of hits will put your efficency down ( DER )

[CrespoBlows]

holy f*** it dosent matter if mark teahan was good or tejada was good DER measures the team stat overall. DER is a team thing not a players thing . DER =The percent of times a batted ball is turned into an out by the teams’ fielders ( dosent matter where the ball was hit ) so again if you have a team that has bad pitching wich allows alot of hits will put your efficency down ( DER )

 

Holy f***, you are stupid.

 

Oddly, the teams ranked highest in DER have good fielders. The Mets have Wright, Reyes, Valentin, Beltran, Chavez, and Green. All of whom are average or great.

 

The Padres have Greene, Gonzalez, Cameron, Johnson, and Giles.

 

We had Mike Lowell, that was it.

[redsoxrules]

Holy f***, you are stupid.

 

Oddly, the teams ranked highest in DER have good fielders. The Mets have Wright, Reyes, Valentin, Beltran, Chavez, and Green. All of whom are average or great.

 

The Padres have Greene, Gonzalez, Cameron, Johnson, and Giles.

 

We had Mike Lowell, that was it.

 

DER='The percent of times a batted ball is turned into an out by the teams’ fielders' do you not get that ? that includes every dam ball that is hit besides a HR so as i mentioned earlier a ball that is hit 15 foot high on the green monster is counted on the teams DER is it not crespo?

[CrespoBlows]

youre stupid reyes and wright had a combined 36 errors

 

Why does that matter? They got to more balls than the average SS/3B, therefore, they're going to commit more errors.

 

Furcal made 27 errors, but he's still a fantastic fielder. Why? He got to 788 balls in 2006. Gonzalez, if proportioned to 156 games, got to only 650. Furcal made 100 more outs than Gonzalez.

[CrespoBlows]

DER='The percent of times a batted ball is turned into an out by the teams’ fielders' do you not get that ? that includes every dam ball that is hit besides a HR so as i mentioned earlier a ball that is hit 15 foot high on the green monster is counted on the teams DER is it not crespo?

 

Still can't overlook the fact that the Red Sox defense had extremely poor range which probably led to about 100 more hits, perhaps more. Pena, Crisp, Ramirez, Gonzalez, and Loretta all have below average range.

 

Basically, what you're saying that the Red Sox could swap those players with gold glovers, and their DER would be about the same?

[redsoxrules]

Why does that matter? They got to more balls than the average SS/3B, therefore, they're going to commit more errors.

 

Furcal made 27 errors, but he's still a fantastic fielder. Why? He got to 788 balls in 2006. Gonzalez, if proportioned to 156 games, got to only 650. Furcal made 100 more outs than Gonzalez.

 

they dont give errors to balls that were hard to get to

[CrespoBlows]

they dont give errors to balls that were hard to get to

 

More often than not, they do. Just about every time Furcal would go into a hole and drop the ball, they gave him an error. Even if you're right, Furcal's still getting to 100 more balls than Gonzalez is.

[redsoxrules]

Still can't overlook the fact that the Red Sox defense had extremely poor range which probably led to about 100 more hits, perhaps more. Pena, Crisp, Ramirez, Gonzalez, and Loretta all have below average range.

 

Basically, what you're saying that the Red Sox could swap those players with gold glovers, and their DER would be about the same?

 

yes thats right with all gold glovers the teams DER wouldn't of have been much different , unless a gold glover can jump 15 feet high or dive 10 feet left to right in the outfield trying to track down all the line drives the pitcher is allowing cause he sucks

[CrespoBlows]

yes thats right with all gold glovers the teams DER wouldn't of have been much different ' date=' unless a gold glover can jump 15 feet high or dive 10 feet left to right in the outfield trying to track down all the line drives the pitcher is allowing cause he sucks[/quote']

 

OK, that's just stupid.

 

How many balls did Crisp let drop in front of him, due to his deer in the headlight reaction to every flyball? What about Pena? You don't think that Ichiro couldn't have turned at least 30 of those balls into outs?

[redsoxrules]

OK, that's just stupid.

 

How many balls did Crisp let drop in front of him, due to his deer in the headlight reaction to every flyball? What about Pena? You don't think that Ichiro couldn't have turned at least 30 of those balls into outs?

 

crisp got to alot of balls BTW and as far as pena goes he didn't play the whole season at RF so it didn't affect it that much

[CrespoBlows]

crisp got to alot of balls BTW and as far as pena goes he didn't play the whole season at RF so it didn't affect it that much

 

Please back up your statements.

 

Pena played in 76 games, which is roughly half the season. Crisp, by all defensive standards, was a bad outfielder.

[redsoxrules]

Why does that matter? They got to more balls than the average SS/3B, therefore, they're going to commit more errors.

 

Furcal made 27 errors, but he's still a fantastic fielder. Why? He got to 788 balls in 2006. Gonzalez, if proportioned to 156 games, got to only 650. Furcal made 100 more outs than Gonzalez.

 

LMAO WTF first of all Gonzalez is a great defender AND did furcal and Gonzo get the same exact balls comming their way ? NO wtf kinda argument is that , jeez its not gonzalez fault that his pitchers are not the ground ball type like LA are

[riverside sluggers]

LMAO WTF first of all Gonzalez is a great defender AND did furcal and Gonzo get the same exact balls comming their way ? NO wtf kinda argument is that ' date=' jeez its not gonzalez fault that his pitchers are not the ground ball type like LA are[/quote']

 

Gonzo wouldve gotten more chances for outs but alas he was injured in the 2nd half, missing a good chunk

[riverside sluggers]

I don't think the 10/5 thing even matters because I think the Sox strayed from club policy and gave Tek a NTC when he resigned to the 4 yr/40 million deal. I could be wrong' date=' but I could swear I read that somewhere.[/quote']

 

http://mlb4u.com/profile.php?id=901

 

It is a limited NTC yes, but Varitek got a "special Sox policy". After 8 years of service (Sept 2005) he was given the right to veto any trade, and he will receive a $1 million bonus if they decide to trade him. Its moot anyway as there is no real reason to send him packing

[CrespoBlows]

Gonzo wouldve gotten more chances for outs but alas he was injured in the 2nd half' date=' missing a good chunk[/quote']

 

Yeah, I computed that. Even if he played in equal games as Furcal he still had 120 fewer chances.

 

Regarding the groundball outs, the Dodgers had 1771 GB outs, the Red Sox had 1711.

 

Even if you gave all of those chances to Gonzalez, he's still 40 short of Furcal.

 

Seriously, you guys are absolutely foolish to say Gonzalez has more range than Furcal. Gonzalez has a great glove, but below average range.

[redsoxrules]

Yeah, I computed that. Even if he played in equal games as Furcal he still had 120 fewer chances.

 

Regarding the groundball outs, the Dodgers had 1771 GB outs, the Red Sox had 1711.

 

Even if you gave all of those chances to Gonzalez, he's still 40 short of Gonzalez.

 

Seriously, you guys are absolutely foolish to say Gonzalez has more range than Furcal. Gonzalez has a great glove, but below average range.

 

 

ok again did furcal and Gonzo have the exact f***ing balls hit towards them ? NO so how the f*** would we know who would get to more balls ?

[CrespoBlows]

ok again did furcal and Gonzo have the exact f***ing balls hit towards them ? NO so how the f*** would we know who would get to more balls ?

 

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/furcara01.php

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/gonzaal02.php

 

FRAA puts SS on an equal footing. They have Furcal at +11. FRAA has Gonzalez at -5.

 

Range Factor, has Furcal at 5.00, and Gonzalez at 4.33

[redsoxrules]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/furcara01.php

 

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/gonzaal02.php

 

FRAA puts SS on an equal footing. They have Furcal at +11. FRAA has Gonzalez at -5.

 

Range Factor, has Furcal at 5.00, and Gonzalez at 4.33

 

loretta has a f***ing range factor of 4.88 and you guys keeps saying he sucks in the field what do you have to say about that ? and range factor is measure the same for each position so dont give me this crap its because he's a second baseman, and that brings me back to the point that not every fielder gets the same f***ing balls hit towards them

 

how come david wright is only at 2.60 ? i tought he was a good fielder, oh and look at reyes 3.86 , again useless stats

 

EDIT " jeter must suck big time then cause his range factor has been pretty bad all of his career,

[ORS]

Range factor varies by position because different positions see different amounts of opportunities. League average for 2B last year was 4.92 (AL), and for 3B it was 2.69 (NL).

 

Do you really think Loretta has good range? The guy is a statue. He's sure handed as hell, which helps his RF because he makes good on a higher percentage of his opportunities, but he doesn't get to many balls laterally. Same thing applies with Wright.

 

Now Crede, by scouting has excellent range, and look at this, his RF was 3.24 with an AL average of 2.84. Do you think that is a coincidence?

 

FYI, Jeter has always rated below average by RF, ZR, FRAA, UZR, you name the metric, he's below average for his career.

[redsoxrules]

Range factor varies by position because different positions see different amounts of opportunities. League average for 2B last year was 4.92 (AL), and for 3B it was 2.69 (NL).

 

Do you really think Loretta has good range? The guy is a statue. He's sure handed as hell, which helps his RF because he makes good on a higher percentage of his opportunities, but he doesn't get to many balls laterally. Same thing applies with Wright.

 

Now Crede, by scouting has excellent range, and look at this, his RF was 3.24 with an AL average of 2.84. Do you think that is a coincidence?

 

FYI, Jeter has always rated below average by RF, ZR, FRAA, UZR, you name the metric, he's below average for his career.

 

so if loretta is 4.88 that means he got to alot of balls correct? or he just got lucky that alot of balls were hit right at him >?

 

and btw the reason jeter's number are down on that is because balls arent hit towards him as much as the other players

[CrespoBlows]

so if loretta is 4.88 that means he got to alot of balls correct? or he just got lucky that alot of balls were hit right at him >?

 

4.88, and the league average was 4.92? That would indicate that he has slightly below average range, no?

 

and btw the reason jeter's number are down on that is because balls arent hit towards him as much as the other players

 

And how the f*** do you know this? I'll take the words of sabermetrics and scouts over you, any day of the week.