Bullpen Help

[americanoutlaw]

One thing the sox have to do is to rebuild there bullpen

and here some possable ideas where they get some help

Inside Team pitching

 

Tim Wakefield

Wake has not been as good as a starter he use to be but he can get the outs if needed and in the 04 playoff he did come out of the pen and was great. I think if he get move to the pen the sox can open a sport in starting pitchers and dump the personal cacther rule

 

Kyle Snyder

 

 

Devern Hansack

 

 

Kason Gabbard

 

Craig Breslow

 

Edgar Martinez

 

Julian Tavarez "or he will be use as trade bit

 

Free agents

 

HIROTOSHI ISHII

 

 

 

Octavio Dotel

 

Joe Borowski

 

LaTroy Hawkins

 

J.C. Romero

 

Trade

Brad Lidge

 

Justin Duchscherer

 

Scott Linebrink

[riverside sluggers]

You do know that before he had that freak injury, he was the team's 2nd best starter at the time, right? At that point he had a 4.13 ERA and led the team in innings pitched. He's still got the stuff to be a 5th starter for the team, 2007 is looking like his last year anyway. Also if your scenario had happened, the Sox would acquire another free agent starting pitcher instead of giving the vacant spot to Snyder, Tavarez, Hansack or Gabbard.

[Mr Crunchy]

i cringe at wake in the pen

he can give us 200 innings of 4.5 run baseball as a 4-5 starter

he can give us all bleeding ulcers trying to hold the tying run on 1st with his knuckleball

[yankeessuck013]

Speier needs to be signed.

[Mr Crunchy]

is it my imagination or did julian tavares become the best starter we had down the stretch??

the man was tremendous

[jsinger121]

Speier needs to be signed.

 

agreed on that one.

[NoPepper]

You do know that before he had that freak injury' date=' he was the team's 2nd best starter at the time, right? At that point he had a 4.13 ERA and led the team in innings pitched. He's still got the stuff to be a 5th starter for the team, 2007 is looking like his last year anyway. Also if your scenario had happened, the Sox would acquire another free agent starting pitcher instead of giving the vacant spot to Snyder, Tavarez, Hansack or Gabbard.[/quote']

 

Not to mention that last year, he had no run support.

 

Another concern with Wake out of the pen is Tek. Tek looks like a deer in headlights when the knuckle ball is thrown. Having Wakefield start allows someone else to catch (and IMHO, it should NOT be Miribelli; but that's a different thread.)

 

As for Travarez, trade him while his stock is high. If he isn't going to start, we've seen how much help he was out of the pen.

[NoPepper]

is it my imagination or did julian tavares become the best starter we had down the stretch??

the man was tremendous

 

One could make that argument. In fact, I do.

 

However, it didn't count. Most teams were in "early spring training" looking at minor league players. If he isn't going to start, I say move him while we can get something for him. I do not want to see him in the 'pen, period.

 

If we test him out this spring as a starter, and he flunks, we're going to be stuck with him.

[Mr Crunchy]

id give the jules the chance to make the team as a starter

 

Julian Tavarez 5-1 1-0 3-0 0-0 1-1

this is the teams record when the jules started

 

http://www.cleveland.com/mlb/spnet.ssf?/default.asp?c=advance&page=mlb/stat/starters-aleast.htm

 

why would spring training be more crucial than september??

we had him out there against ny who was battling for a homefield playoff spot and we had him pitch against the twins who were playing for the division

 

there were other games with less meaning but i do believe there was a complete game tossed in the mix as well

 

the guy is a loose cannon and has a bit of insanity that i like in a starter

we lost a lot of swagger when petey left for queens

we could use someone who may send the 1st 2 hitters of the game to the emergency ward if hes having a bad day

 

of course he could suck too

but its a small price to pay considering who we went to war with last year

[yankeessuck013]

It's pretty unrealistic to think the Tavarez can pitch the whole season the way he did for the last month or so.

[Mr Crunchy]

agreed

almost as unrealistic to think the yanks would lose to detroit and pedro martinez would have more dl stints than wins after may 30th

 

we own his ass no matter what,i dont see anyone in love with the psychopath

so why not give him the ball while we're paying him

[NoPepper]

we own his ass no matter what,i dont see anyone in love with the psychopath

so why not give him the ball while we're paying him

 

I agree with that.

 

My concern is that, right now, he has market value. This value is based on all the points you made. IMHO, move him if we can. We'll get more in return now.

 

Now will be the only time we can dump him (and get the most in return). If he does start, and is successfull, we own him and nobody will be happier than me. The end result is to WIN.

 

If he isn't successfull, as a starter or in the bullpen, we are stuck with him. If he has bad outings in the grapefruit league, his value goes down. Personally, I'd rather not take that chance. Don't wait, the market for our remaining Z is up, SELL!

 

Both Z and Foulke have used up all their chances as far as I'm concerned.

[Mr Crunchy]

point acknowledged and by the way,very worded

 

my bone of contention is this

we had horrid pitching last summer

the 1 guy who seemed to have it together at the end was the jules

 

if the price is right(a legit setup man) perhaps we do indeed move him

 

i just hate moving pitchers,even mediocre ones

i like depth at that position as evidenced by the font of putrescense we sent out there every 5 days instead of bronson arroyo

[Ray10]

The Sox need to go after Justin Speier for sure and seeing as how Papelbon is going to become a starter next year the Sox need to try and pull off a trade with the Astros for Brad Lidge we need to have another solid closer in there Foulke surely isn't the guy and Craig Hansen isn' t ready to close out games full time hopefully in another year or two he will be ready. I also think the Sox need to re-sign Mike Timlin as well.

[elsrbueno]

One guy who might come cheap and on a 1 year incentive laiden deal is Eric Gagne. He's got an option with LA for something like $12 million which they really shouldn't excercise, putting him on the market. He's huge risk at $12 million but he should be out there. The Sox could sign him to 1 year deal similar to Wade Miller's or Matt Mantei's a couple years ago and he'll have the chance to prove he's healthy on a big stage.

 

Also keep in mind that even though he's stunk up the joint the past 2 years, Keith Foulke will probably be back next year. He's got a $3.75 million player option and there's no way he gets that on the open market.

[a700hitter]

One guy who might come cheap and on a 1 year incentive laiden deal is Eric Gagne. He's got an option with LA for something like $12 million which they really shouldn't excercise, putting him on the market. He's huge risk at $12 million but he should be out there. The Sox could sign him to 1 year deal similar to Wade Miller's or Matt Mantei's a couple years ago and he'll have the chance to prove he's healthy on a big stage.

 

Also keep in mind that even though he's stunk up the joint the past 2 years, Keith Foulke will probably be back next year. He's got a $3.75 million player option and there's no way he gets that on the open market.

Wade Miller and Matei may not have cost a lot, but they gave us nothing, so any money that they were paid was wasted. If the Sox didn't waste their time and roster spots on these bums, maybe they would have signed a couple of healthy pitchers for more $ that would have helped the 2005 squad.

[ksushi]

In that case though you have to admit its worth the risk. Those two end up healthy and the 2005 Red Sox wouldn't have been 3 and out.

[a700hitter]

In that case though you have to admit its worth the risk. Those two end up healthy and the 2005 Red Sox wouldn't have been 3 and out.

It's a low risk Money move, but a high risk roster move. It was a long shot that either of these guys could have contributed. I would rather they had gone in a different direction and signed two healthy pitchers. These moves (Miller and Mantei) were high risk, and the Sox lost where it was really important-- the standings. The only thing they didn't lose was a lot of money.

[SCM33]

In the bullpen, IMO we need more than help. We need to completely retool. We need a Lefty, and no im not talking lefty specialist. We need a pitcher who throws lefthanded to get out both righties and lefties. We havent had one since Embree in 04'. We need a setup man. Mike Timlin finally fell to earth and showed his age this season. While I think he can still be effective, I am not sure his arm can take the toll of being an everyday setup man any longer. Then we need a closer. Keith Foulke will not close games in Boston, and there is not very much on the market for premier closers. The Sox will most likely not acquire someone like Gagne, you have to think that the Yankees or someone else will be willing to overpay him. I dont think we could justify overpaying him considering his health issues and the fact that we are already paying Keith Foulke premier closer money to eat up garbage innings.

[a700hitter]

... and the fact that we are already paying Keith Foulke premier closer money to eat up garbage innings.

I think that Foulke finally regained his health and his mechanics at the end of the year. By the end of September his confidence in his ability was growing. Unless he has a physical setback, I see him as being able to contribute much more than garbage innings in '07.

[americanoutlaw]

One guy who might come cheap and on a 1 year incentive laiden deal is Eric Gagne. He's got an option with LA for something like $12 million which they really shouldn't excercise, putting him on the market. He's huge risk at $12 million but he should be out there. The Sox could sign him to 1 year deal similar to Wade Miller's or Matt Mantei's a couple years ago and he'll have the chance to prove he's healthy on a big stage.

 

Also keep in mind that even though he's stunk up the joint the past 2 years, Keith Foulke will probably be back next year. He's got a $3.75 million player option and there's no way he gets that on the open market.

 

 

Eric Gagne more han likey be resign by the blue sox

[seabeachfred]

is it my imagination or did julian tavares become the best starter we had down the stretch??

the man was tremendous

 

Use your imagination for other things Mr Crunchy because it is not your imagination. You bet Taverez was terrific for us. Best starter? Arguable, but solid nevertheless, and I don't want him shuffled around and played like a fiddle. He should be given every chance to stay in the rotation. He knows how to win and he loves playing for the Red Sox and their fans. He told me so. I went down to talk to him before that Sept. 15 game with the Yankees was rained out. The guy is full of fight and spirit. I became an instant fan of his. Give him his due. :D :D

[riverside sluggers]

Given that the current starting rotation is Schilling, Beckett, Papelbon & Wakefield... that leaves one spot open to fill

 

Tavarez did show a solid effort but Id much rather see Jason Schmidt take up that last spot

[Ray10]

So since the Sox are going to covert Papelbon so a starter what is the Rotation going to look like next year. As of right now I am thinking that it would be

 

1. Curt Schilling

2. Josh Beckett

3. Tim Wakefield (If he's healthy or the Sox bring him back)

4. Jonathan Papelbon

5. Kyle Snyder/Matsuzaka

[riverside sluggers]

Know this, there is a 5th starter slot open. The Sox will go through the list of available starting pitchers (whether it be free agent or thru trade) before they hand the job to Tavarez, Gabbard or Snyder who was inconsistent at best

[jacksonianmarch]

Know this' date=' there is a 5th starter slot open. The Sox will go through the list of available starting pitchers (whether it be free agent or thru trade) before they hand the job to Tavarez, Gabbard or Snyder who was inconsistent at best[/quote']

 

 

I find it kinda funny how the sox have a history of getting burned late in games, and therefore, they deide to move the best closer they have had since Tom Gordon to the rotation in a yr where no good closers are available. I have visions of 03 or prior in my mind. Tito too afraid to go to his closer because the guy blows. Closer X coming in and walking the bases loaded. Closer X coming in and completely melting down. Paps is a good closer, and if they dont find one of his caliber, things will be very messy. There is a reason why the yankees have been over their predicted win totals (by run diff) for the past 11 yrs, and that is because their closers role has been nearly perfect. In todays game, a closer is just as or even more important than a frontline starter. If they try to do a bargain basement fixer upper, then they should be shot.

[riverside sluggers]

... Theo has stated that it is best for Papelbon's arm to move him into the starting rotation. If there is more wear & tear on his arm throwing as a closer than a starter, I really cant argue with their decision

[ORS]

Either that, or you could have visions of Papelbon's arm popping out of the socket in mid-August. It's documented that he has loose joints - runs in the family (check out his mom's posts at soxprospects.com - she goes by Noblepap) - and relieving is more stressful on the arm. They are doing this because they are concerned about his arm.