Bullpen by Committee

[example1]

I wonder if the sox could use Papelbon more effectively. If I remember correctly, this organization originally attempted to use a bullpen by committee a few years ago to put the best pitchers in the game at the most important time of a game. It seems to me that with this stellar sox defense and a much more than adequate offense, keeping runs from scoring in the 6th, 7th or 8th would be just as important as preventing them in the 9th.

 

In other words, would this sox team be a better one to try the bullpen by committee than the '03 team was? Wouldn't Papelbon be the perfect pitcher to use as a classic 'stopper' rather than as a closer? It seems like there are a lot of close games that the sox lose in the 6th or 7th that Papelbon never ends up in anyway.

 

Wonder what others think about this possiblity.

[RoyNHSox]

I’m not sure I like the idea so much given it’s success when tried back in 2003. If you mean go with the hot hand, the person who's had the most recent success, then we probably would have seen Seanez come in the 8th last night, and not Hansen. Either that or Paps get used over and over until he’s cooked by September. A lot to ask from a young arm.

 

It all goes back to the problem of how inconsistent the relievers have been, basically since the beginning of the season. A bullpen by committee might work if the people in the pen weren’t so up-and-down all the time, but you can’t always judge them on a game by game basis. One day they look unhittable and the next game they suck.

[The Monster is my Mom]

not to nitpick, but it was 'closer by committee' back in 03, not bullpen. All bullpens are a committee.

[MC Hammer]

I'm against anything that would move Paps out of the closer role. If not for Papi he's the MVP of this team in the first half.

[Papelbon58]

i think if you mean that we could possibly use Paps for 2-3 innings saves rather than letting Tavarez or Seanez pitch, that would be fine if you did it sparingly. You know, 2 or 3 appearances a week, one can be long

[MC Hammer]

i think if you mean that we could possibly use Paps for 2-3 innings saves rather than letting Tavarez or Seanez pitch, that would be fine if you did it sparingly. You know, 2 or 3 appearances a week, one can be long

2 inning saves I can see ... 3 innings is a bit long.

[ORS]

The experiment failed in '03 because they lacked a true relief ace. Papelbon is, without doubt, a relief ace, so perhaps they could try using him in high-lev spots that happen before the 8th inning. That said, nobody has been consistent enough to make me feel confident about the end of the game if he is used earlier.

[example1]

The experiment failed in '03 because they lacked a true relief ace. Papelbon is, without doubt, a relief ace, so perhaps they could try using him in high-lev spots that happen before the 8th inning. That said, nobody has been consistent enough to make me feel confident about the end of the game if he is used earlier.

 

my thoughts exactly ORS. If the problem was the lack of a true relief ace (which they said it was) then they have either dropped that philosophy or they are not showing fidelity to it this year for some reason.

 

I know people get uncomfortable with the idea, but leverage seems like a powerful stat/idea and one the sox should not shy away from.

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

i would love to see Paps get 2 innings saves, but that would limit his availibilty

[a700hitter]

i would love to see Paps get 2 innings saves, but that would limit his availibilty

I think you would risk hurting the kid. This is his first full year at 162 games, and he'll be making more appearances this year than he has in his young career. I really wouldn't push him too hard and risk damaging him for the future.

[jsinger121]

i would love to see Paps get 2 innings saves, but that would limit his availibilty

 

that would be foolish and shows just how much you know about baseball.

[RoyNHSox]

I think you would risk hurting the kid. This is his first full year at 162 games, and he'll be making more appearances this year than he has in his young career. I really wouldn't push him too hard and risk damaging him for the future.

 

Well said. The problem I have with using Paps for other than a 1 or an occasional 2 inning save is that he’s been the only part of the pen that has consistently fulfilled his expectations in his role. I just don’t want to mess with that success. It’s really not fair to expect him to pick up the slack for everyone else out of the pen.

[a700hitter]

that would be foolish and shows just how much you know about baseball.

Yikes, don't get so ornery just because the season is going down the toilet. Remember we are retooling at $130 million and we still have all thoswe young arms.

[jsinger121]

pitching him for 2 innings would burn him out quickly....the only time he may pitch 2 innings is in the postseason and that would be it.

[MC Hammer]

Yikes, don't get so ornery just because the season is going down the toilet. Remember we are retooling at $130 million and we still have all thoswe young arms.

Ya we would have but much better served trading all our prospects for 1 player so we can make a WS push this year ... instead of competing for the next decade.

[a700hitter]

Ya we would have but much better served trading all our prospects for 1 player so we can make a WS push this year ... instead of competing for the next decade.

Yeah, competing for second place behind the Yankees for the next 10 years. That's always pleasant. You've got to bury the Yankees when you have the opportunity, and you don't get the opportunity that often. With the Yankees' injuries and aging team, this is one of those years. Theo let the opportunity slip by. Never mind trading "all of our prospects," he didn't make any smaller deals to help the team. You always state everything in the extreme. My wanting the FO to do something to help put a foot on the throats of the Yankees is translated by you to mean trading all of our prospects and decimating the organization for years. Is everything an extereme with you? It is a very immature trait.

[MC Hammer]

Yeah, competing for second place behind the Yankees for the next 10 years. That's always pleasant. You've got to bury the Yankees when you have the opportunity, and you don't get the opportunity that often. With the Yankees' injuries and aging team, this is one of those years. Theo let the opportunity slip by. Never mind trading "all of our prospects," he didn't make any smaller deals to help the team. You always state everything in the extreme. My wanting the FO to do something to help put a foot on the throats of the Yankees is translated by you to mean trading all of our prospects and decimating the organization for years. Is everything an extereme with you? It is a very immature trait.

No see with the Yankees aging roster ... THE FUTURE is the time. See soon enough ... Sheffield is too old, and Posada is too old, and Jeter is too old, and Giambi is too old, and Mussina is too old, Mo is too old, etc. While we are bringing up our young prospects their old guys are retiring/moving to the bench. The future will be the sox time to dominate this division, and it is the reason Theo rebuilt our farm system. Believe it or not every team isn't run like the Yankees ... WIN THIS YEAR OR BUST!!!!!!!!!!

[a700hitter]

No see with the Yankees aging roster ... THE FUTURE is the time. See soon enough ... Sheffield is too old, and Posada is too old, and Jeter is too old, and Giambi is too old, and Mussina is too old, Mo is too old, etc. While we are bringing up our young prospects their old guys are retiring/moving to the bench. The future will be the sox time to dominate this division, and it is the reason Theo rebuilt our farm system. Believe it or not every team isn't run like the Yankees ... WIN THIS YEAR OR BUST!!!!!!!!!!

Sheffield has been replaced by Abreu since you haven't noticed. He hit and steals bases. Melky is Young and Wang is emerging as an ace. They will beat our asses this year and next year. They don't play "WIN THIS YEAR OR BUST!!!!" They play to win "EVERY YEAR" while our FO office is always playing for next year like losers do. That's not acceptable for a team with the financiial resources and fan base of the Red Sox.

[DUSTINMOHR4LIFE]

that would be foolish and shows just how much you know about baseball.

 

geez. If you knew anything about baseball, you would know that using a closer exclusively in the 9th is stupid and that you should really use them in the highest leverage situation.

[TheKilo]

geez. If you knew anything about baseball, you would know that using a closer exclusively in the 9th is stupid and that you should really use them in the highest leverage situation.

 

 

Everything you say is overshadowed by that joke of a username.

[MC Hammer]

Sheffield has been replaced by Abreu since you haven't noticed. He hit and steals bases. Melky is Young and Wang is emerging as an ace. They will beat our asses this year and next year. They don't play "WIN THIS YEAR OR BUST!!!!" They play to win "EVERY YEAR" while our FO office is always playing for next year like losers do. That's not acceptable for a team with the financiial resources and fan base of the Red Sox.

Bobby Abreu is 32 if you haven't noticed.

[jsinger121]

Sheffield has been replaced by Abreu since you haven't noticed. He hit and steals bases. Melky is Young and Wang is emerging as an ace. They will beat our asses this year and next year. They don't play "WIN THIS YEAR OR BUST!!!!" They play to win "EVERY YEAR" while our FO office is always playing for next year like losers do. That's not acceptable for a team with the financiial resources and fan base of the Red Sox.

 

just stop being a red sox fan if you don't like the way the team is run

[MC Hammer]

just stop being a red sox fan if you don't like the way the team is run

Exactly. If you want a team that is going to do what you want ... cheer for the Yankees.

[example1]

I think the theory behind all of this is as follows:

 

a) the Yankees current crop of overpaid players will either age-out or stop being good.

 

some of the Yankees strength comes from players that are, essentially irreplacable (Jeter and Mariano Rivera come to mind) and who are getting older.

 

c) by saving some money, the sox are in a good position to offer good and respectful contracts to worthy players over the next few years, or to trade a prospect or two to get good players for the next few years.

 

d) the yankees have a history of getting players who don't ultimately pay off like they should. If not for players who go above and beyond like Jeter and Mariano, they would be any other overpaid team that doesn't make and win in the playoffs.

--------------------------------

 

These four things are all likely true. The Yankees will get older and their biggest strengths will not be replaced. Meanwhile, the Red Sox are intentionally trying to get young players who fit the mold of franchise players: leadership, hustle, good eyes/patience, owned for 6 years, etc.,

 

So, we COULD trade Pedroia and/or Ellsbury now, or we could assume that these guys are special players. In fact, they are both former PAC 10 stars, they were both the leaders and stars on their respective college teams, they are both tremendous 4-5 tool players with great leadership qualities even in their professional careers.

 

Personally, while I agree that it is painful that the Sox are currently struggling to keep pace with a struggling Yankees team, I prefer to think about where it is going. Before this season started ANY of us would have paid money to have a Sox team that was 2 games out of first in early August with a hold on the WC lead as well.

 

Lineup 2 years from now:

 

CF-Ellsbury

2B-Pedroia

DH-Ortiz

LF-Ramirez

3B-Youkilis

RF-Pena

1B-??

SS-??

C-??

 

Beckett

????

Papelbon

Lester

Bucholz/FA/Bowden(its early for Bowden, but he looks GOOD)

 

I think it would be possible to get a very good C, SS and 1B who will contribute offensively. When I say very good I don't mean Alex Gonzalez, I mean someone at Tejada's level.

 

Glass half-full? Yeah. But there are too many s***** things in the world to spend my whole day worrying about moves the sox don't make. I want to see them as a good team and I truly believe they are and will continue to be.

[Jon_Papelboner]

Something must be done to lessen the load on him, he's wearing out.

[Papelbon58]

pitching him for 2 innings would burn him out quickly....the only time he may pitch 2 innings is in the postseason and that would be it.

he has been bred to be a starter. Right now he is pitching about 3 times a week. If he pitches 2 innings in 1 of those, that would put him at a grand total of 4 innings in a week. Somehow, I do not understand how being a closer makes it impossible for him to go two or three innings if we need him to do that. What if we had made him a long reliever? Maybe we should, Hansen can usually take care of business for one inning. In a big situation, I would rather see Paps out there for three innings than anyone else take the mound.

[yankeessuck013]

just stop being a red sox fan if you don't like the way the team is run

 

 

he's a red sox fan?

 

i didnt notice

[fenwayfrank]

Here's my 2 cents worth. . . I've been a Sox fan for over 30 years, and, right around this time of the season, they just don't seem to "want it" like the Skankees do.

[a700hitter]

just stop being a red sox fan if you don't like the way the team is run

Thank you for the sage advice. Yes, I'll stop rooting for the team after 39 years because I don't like the way it is being run by an ownership group from Chicago (or is it St. Louis) who are making a boat load of money and putting out an inadequate product right now. If I have to outlast them, I can assure that I will, but I won't stop rooting for them. Who the hell roots for the management and the FO? I root for the guys on the field wearing the uniforms. If I think management is a bunch of *******s, I can assure you that my thinking is probably in line with about 75% of the players. Go ahead cheer lead for the FO. Keep telling them what a great job they are doing, but while you are patting them on the back be wary that they might have their hands in your pocket. I root for the guys who put it on the line on the field every day, not the MBA's with their business plans to maximize their profits on the fans money. f*** them. Get us the best players, or take your hands out of my pockets. I may stop buying tickets, but I'm still rooting for the team so go f*** yourself JSinger121 you management toadie and apologist. f*** all of you front office apologists who think it is unwarranted to criticize the FO for not giving the fans the best possible team-- one that can win it all. Keep blaming the players. Kill Seanez and Tavarez. Kill Foulke. Scream that Foulke is not earning his money. These guys are doing the best that they can. They are just not very good. It's the job of the FO to build the team, and this team has huge holes. They did a lousy job. Injuries are no excuse. Keep buying their line about building for the future, and call me an ******* when we finally take down the Yankees. I'll gladly admit my mistake, but until then f*** off.

[a700hitter]

Exactly. If you want a team that is going to do what you want ... cheer for the Yankees.

Is that how you decide who you are going to root for?