Battle of the Lead-Off Hitters: Kevin Youkilis vs. Johnny Damon

[BoSox21]

Did a bit of research to find out just how these two stacked up. Here are my findings:

 

Kevin Youkilis

.311 Batting Average

.424 On-Base Percentage

4 HR

22 RBI

12 Doubles

1 Triple

27 Runs

1 Stolen Base

Salary: $354,600

 

Johnny Damon

.281 Batting Average

.356 On-Base Percentage

4 HR

24 RBI

11 Doubles

0 Triples

34 Runs

11 Stolen Bases

Salary: $13 million

 

And Damon has had 28 more at-bats. Only 7 more runs scored and that's just cause Manny hasn't been Manny. What Youk has been doing is absolutely remarkable.

[DrewDaGreat]

And we've got somebody better.

[yeszir]

What's remarkable is how overpaid Johnny Damon is, apparently.

[BoSox21]

I agree. If there is a better bargain in all of baseball than Kevin Youkilis right now, I'd like to see it, unless his name is Jonathan Papelbon who actually makes less than Youk at $335,400

[Cityofchampions33]

Our lineup is going to be crazily balanced when Coco returns, and when Youk moves back down, it'll give Crisp RBI chances, so don't be suprised if his total is high.

[Anuj09]

the issue, however, is when Coco returns (from what i heard as early as next week) where do you put Youk in the lineup ?

[BoSox21]

This is my ideal lineup for when everyone is healthy

 

CF Coco

2B Loretta

DH Ortiz

LF Manny

RF Nixon

C Varitek

3B Lowell

1B Youkilis

SS Gonzalez/Cora

 

Lowell and Youkilis towards the bottom of the order while being able to keep firepower and good on-base guys towards the top and middle would be so key and make the entire order as well-balanced as any in the majors

[Youk Of The Nation]

I think we all know my feelings on Youk.

[Beckett95]

This is my ideal lineup for when everyone is healthy

 

CF Coco

2B Loretta

DH Ortiz

LF Manny

RF Nixon

C Varitek

3B Lowell

1B Youkilis

SS Gonzalez/Cora

 

Lowell and Youkilis towards the bottom of the order while being able to keep firepower and good on-base guys towards the top and middle would be so key and make the entire order as well-balanced as any in the majors

 

switch vtek and lowell

[BoSox21]

I would but id love to see Lowell and Youk at 7-8. thats 1-2 quality OBP guys right there

[empirestrikesback26]

#1, Damon has a broken foot, so that's a fairly good excuse for not doing as well as youkillllis. In terms of the future, we don't know if this will continue for youkilis, it's only may, while Damon has done it for years now. Plus damon, even with the broken bone in his foot is faster. That says something.

 

But, yes, right now, Youkilis is the better leadoff man.

[BoSox21]

if Damon is still stealing bases with a broken foot, he should be able to keep up the rest of his game

[HeadOfSoxNation]

This is my ideal lineup for when everyone is healthy

 

CF Coco

2B Loretta

DH Ortiz

LF Manny

RF Nixon

C Varitek

3B Lowell

1B Youkilis

SS Gonzalez/Cora

 

Lowell and Youkilis towards the bottom of the order while being able to keep firepower and good on-base guys towards the top and middle would be so key and make the entire order as well-balanced as any in the majors

 

I can't have Gonzo and Cora wasting Youk's OBP by grounding into double plays...I'd keep Youk at leadoff, move Gonzo/Cora to 8 and then put Crisp at 9. He's faster than Youkilis and having him on base when Youk hits will only benefit the club with Crisp's speed and Youk's ability to get hits and use all fields.

[jlcrss9]

Personally, with manny and ortiz behind them, I would leadoff Coco and stick Youk in the 2-spot. Loretta has done well, but with youkillis' tendency to get on base, I would prefer him over loretta. We arent a speed team anyway.

[Beckett95]

I can't have Gonzo and Cora wasting Youk's OBP by grounding into double plays...I'd keep Youk at leadoff, move Gonzo/Cora to 8 and then put Crisp at 9. He's faster than Youkilis and having him on base when Youk hits will only benefit the club with Crisp's speed and Youk's ability to get hits and use all fields.

 

interesting though there, if crisp gets on first, he can turn it into a double within a couple of pitches, which could give guys like youk and loretta alot of RBI's.

 

id rather keep it normal tho, with crisp leading off and youk 8

[GuaposFirstTaco]

since all y'all are a lot more savy at the numbers - what is the difference - by average - the number of pitches Youk sees v. Damon? As far as I knew, from stats last year and beyond - Damon was among the league leaders in pitches per at bat. Youk this year has to be up there as well.

 

And, going off on a tangent, Damon has 13SB? My point: Has the amount of pitches per at bat replaced the idea importance of a walk-to-(potentially)-a-stolen base for the leadoff hitter? (OBP the obvious leader)

[Youk Of The Nation]

Youk is third in the Major Leagues in pitches taken.

[Youk Of The Nation]

Hes also tied for 7th in walks.

[rician blast]

I'd argue that a good portion of the run differential ( I know its only 7 runs) has to do with Damon's ability to steal and get into scoring position. translate that over an entire season (let's say Johnny ends up with 25-30 steals) and the impact of those steals would be more significant.

 

Youk has performed admirably, but lacks that dimension. Ultimately he's better suited to hit lower in the order...problem is that if Gonzo is hitting behind him he'd see less quality pitches to hit.

[ksushi]

The problem with having Youk leading off is that once he is on first base he provides no threat of stealing a base. Coco on first will get Ortiz and Manny seeing more fastballs because Coco is a big base stealing threat. He can upset a pitchers rhythm. I like him hitting 8th, because while he would get zero protection from Gonzo it wouldn't matter because does anyone remember when Gonzo kept getting up with 2 outs and the bases loaded? Especially when we had guys like Harris and Bard and Gonzo in one line up? Thats because guys were getting on with two outs, but there was no bat at the bottom of the order to take care of anything. With Youk at the bottom, he would be coming up more often with runners on, and would make an out less often than those guys that were in the back of the order before.

[TheRivernator]

you guys are so funny, lol. JD is integral in beating you guys and now you have to make yourselves feel better. It is may, but go ahead and make yourselves feel better....

[DrewDaGreat]

yeah, he's been great, what does he have, 4 hits against us?

 

Besides, like I said, Youk isn't the Red Sox leadoff hitter, Coco is. And he has just as much, probably more ability to steal a base then Damon.

[BoSox21]

I think Riv is confused by the fact that this thread was created prior to last night's game, at which point Damon had done f*** all to us all year except for I believe 1 RBI. Sorry Riv, the numbers don't lie.

[TheRivernator]

it is may bro, f***ing may. Stupid point from people accustomed to premature assumptions.

[rician blast]

you guys are so funny, lol. JD is integral in beating you guys and now you have to make yourselves feel better. It is may, but go ahead and make yourselves feel better....

 

 

how much of the thread do you read before you post such nonsense?

 

Its not a "who is better" thread. Its not a "bash Johnny" or "hooray for Youk" thread. I hadn't really thought about what we've lost, what we've gained, and how Johnny was doing versus whomever the Sox have had in the 1-hole. I think its a good discusison.

 

The thread raised an interesting question...one which I would have thought a self-professed baseball guy like yourself would be interested in.

 

But I guess I give you too much credit.

[Mr Crunchy]

jd is hitting .284 for 13,000,000.00 per year

youk is hitting .305 for 350,000.00 per year

 

hows your math??

[TheRivernator]

since all y'all are a lot more savy at the numbers - what is the difference - by average - the number of pitches Youk sees v. Damon? As far as I knew, from stats last year and beyond - Damon was among the league leaders in pitches per at bat. Youk this year has to be up there as well.

 

And, going off on a tangent, Damon has 13SB? My point: Has the amount of pitches per at bat replaced the idea importance of a walk-to-(potentially)-a-stolen base for the leadoff hitter? (OBP the obvious leader)

 

a leadoff hitter who has the ability to walk and then turn that walk into essentially a double is important. The fact of the matter is, youk is a 1b. Prototypical 1b's are power guys, not leadoff guys. Coco is your prototypical leadoff hitter and he'll assume that throne in a few days. Youk is a good player built for starting innings due to his high BB rate, but the same can be said for other 1bs like Delgado or Giambi. Thing is, those guys have the ability to hit the longball on command as well, which makes them more valuable. Overall, youk has done an admirable job at leadoff thus far, but the chances of him keeping it up would not be high. Now the real dilemma, though, is whether to hit youk 2 behind coco and move loretta down. Youk is a more important hitter than loretta because of his ability to get the timely walk, while I think history sides with loretta on getting timely hits. You want the walks and the higher OBP at the 2 hole because he'll get on base, while the timely hits at the bottom of the order are more valuable because they usually come with runners on and the chances of you being brought in to score when reaching at the bottom of the order is lower. So whoever gets moved down needs to be able to get the hit and potentially forgo the walk. You guys have a good lineup, and youk has impressed thus far, but he'll end up as the player that he is, a guy who will hit in the .280-.290 range with high walks and limited power. Nothing wrong with that....

[ARod2212]

jd is hitting .284 for 13,000,000.00 per year

youk is hitting .305 for 350,000.00 per year

 

hows your math??

 

Damon has played 44 games.

Youkilis has played 43 games.

A baseball season consists of 162 games.

 

Let's look at this thread say, 4 months from now and see who's numbers are better?

[DrewDaGreat]

a leadoff hitter who has the ability to walk and then turn that walk into essentially a double is important. The fact of the matter is, youk is a 1b. Prototypical 1b's are power guys, not leadoff guys. Coco is your prototypical leadoff hitter and he'll assume that throne in a few days. Youk is a good player built for starting innings due to his high BB rate, but the same can be said for other 1bs like Delgado or Giambi. Thing is, those guys have the ability to hit the longball on command as well, which makes them more valuable. Overall, youk has done an admirable job at leadoff thus far, but the chances of him keeping it up would not be high. Now the real dilemma, though, is whether to hit youk 2 behind coco and move loretta down. Youk is a more important hitter than loretta because of his ability to get the timely walk, while I think history sides with loretta on getting timely hits. You want the walks and the higher OBP at the 2 hole because he'll get on base, while the timely hits at the bottom of the order are more valuable because they usually come with runners on and the chances of you being brought in to score when reaching at the bottom of the order is lower. So whoever gets moved down needs to be able to get the hit and potentially forgo the walk. You guys have a good lineup, and youk has impressed thus far, but he'll end up as the player that he is, a guy who will hit in the .280-.290 range with high walks and limited power. Nothing wrong with that....

 

 

Youk is not a natural 1B!!!! For the millionth time, he's a natural 3B. He's playing it because we have a 3B who's playing better baseball then any 3B in the AL.

[Mr Crunchy]

Let's look at this thread say, 4 months from now and see who's numbers are better

 

this is certainly fair

when do you think damon will go to the d.l with his

(1)ailing shoulder

(2)bone spurred foot

(3)vaginal warts(every yankee gets d.l'd once a year with vaginal warts)