The Blue Jays Thread

[Sky]

Only two games behind and with an injury ridden bullpen (or just a crappy pitching performance by *cough* Towers), and with the hardest team schedule for April. Yay!

 

I expect it to be a close race until the end.

 

By the way, i'm new here. I won't be some mindless fan posting insults or whatever, just debating is fine with me. no worries

[yeszir]

Welcome to Talksox. I'm sorry to say that I'm not entirely worried about the Blue Jays at this point. It just seems that your pitching is too weak to hold up.

[Sky]

Fair enough, but if (big if) everyone starts pitching healthy i don't think there's any starting rotation that is better than ours. equal maybe, but not better. The only weak link in the 5 is obviously Towers.

 

As for the Bullpen, some guys need to be sent to the minors, but guys like Schoeneweis and Rosario are good, and guys like Ryan and Speier are money.

[jsinger121]

I would take Schilling, Beckett, and Wakefield easily over Halladay, Burnett, and Chacin since all of the Sox pitchers have pitched in big games before and know how to get the job done in big spots.

[riverside sluggers]

I would take Schilling, Beckett, and Wakefield easily over Halladay, Burnett, and Chacin since all of the Sox pitchers have pitched in big games before and know how to get the job done in big spots.

 

Things arent looking good as now its being reported on WEEI that Chacin will have MRI after being complaining about his pitching elbow.

[Sky]

I would take Schilling, Beckett, and Wakefield easily over Halladay, Burnett, and Chacin since all of the Sox pitchers have pitched in big games before and know how to get the job done in big spots.

 

Experience is very important. There's no doubt about that. I think Halladay wouldn't have a problem though. I'd take Lilly over Chacin though. Chacin's good but he gets lots of run support as well. Lilly has proven over his last 4 starts that he's an A class pitcher. his ERA in those games is around 2.00 over an average of around 6.5 innings. He pitched the same way in the latter part of last year.

 

As for Chacin he'll probably just miss one start and may avoid the DL altogether. Burnett's pissing me off though.. I swear the guy doesn't have a pain threshold.... Scar Tissue won't kill you unless its really jarring your arm.

 

I think that when the rotation gets healthier it will all come down to power offense rather than the dominance of one (or both) pitchers. I still think at this point our rotation and bullpen beats the yanks

[TheRivernator]

the blue jays are a team that will be an annoyance but still wont be enough of a factor to win anything this yr. Burnett is a vag, and you need him.

[26 to 6]

I would take Schilling, Beckett, and Wakefield easily over Halladay, Burnett, and Chacin since all of the Sox pitchers have pitched in big games before and know how to get the job done in big spots.

I dont know if I would. Halladay is better than Schilling. Beckett and Burnett are both in the same boat, good talent however injury prone. But Beckett has been better this year. And Chacin's age and the fact that he's a lefty is a plus. But Wakefield IS a Knuckler, which is always nice too. Definately a tough call. However, Lilly over Clement in a heartbeat and Towers over DiNardo, but not Wells.

[TheRivernator]

Towers over nobody right now. The guy is completely awful...

[jsinger121]

I dont know if I would. Halladay is better than Schilling. Beckett and Burnett are both in the same boat, good talent however injury prone. But Beckett has been better this year. And Chacin's age and the fact that he's a lefty is a plus. But Wakefield IS a Knuckler, which is always nice too. Definately a tough call. However, Lilly over Clement in a heartbeat and Towers over DiNardo, but not Wells.

 

Beckett pitched a shutout in the WS and doesn't have the injury history like Burnett. AJ can't stay healthy for a season. I'm taking guys that have done it before over guys that have not 100% of the time.

[TheRivernator]

Beckett pitched a shutout in the WS and doesn't have the injury history like Burnett. AJ can't stay healthy for a season. I'm taking guys that have done it before over guys that have not 100% of the time.

 

Beckett has hit the DL more times than Burnett, although Burnett has spent more days on the DL. If you want to talk about one year postseason performers, Pavano was also nasty in the postseason that yr, and he sure wouldnt be atop my list of playoff proven pitchers....

[jsinger121]

Beckett has hit the DL more times than Burnett, although Burnett has spent more days on the DL. If you want to talk about one year postseason performers, Pavano was also nasty in the postseason that yr, and he sure wouldnt be atop my list of playoff proven pitchers....

 

Beckett also went on for blisters most of the time which hardly compare to the elbow problems that Burnett has been dealing with.

[TheRivernator]

Becket has also had shoulder problems...

[jsinger121]

minor shoulder problems....nothing that I would be concerned about more than I would someone like Burnett who can't stay healthy.

[Sky]

well if Burnett goes on the DL again after his next start (probably beginning of June) then i concede that he's a piece of s***, regardless of his talent. IT'S SCAR TISSUE DAMMIT!

 

Beckett is a very good pitcher but has been really struggling lately. Maybe something is wrong with his arm?

 

For Rivernator - just curiosity. what do the Yankees have that overpower the Blue Jays, so as to pull away from them and win a title?

[TheRivernator]

well if Burnett goes on the DL again after his next start (probably beginning of June) then i concede that he's a piece of s***, regardless of his talent. IT'S SCAR TISSUE DAMMIT!

 

Beckett is a very good pitcher but has been really struggling lately. Maybe something is wrong with his arm?

 

For Rivernator - just curiosity. what do the Yankees have that overpower the Blue Jays, so as to pull away from them and win a title?

 

the jays are playing over their head offensively and are still a few games behind us. Your 2 is injured, your 4 might be out for the yr and your 5 has been mistaken for a batting tee. Your biggest strength last yr was your bullpen depth and so far this yr your pen is 2 men deep with everyone else having an era near 5-6. The fact is, Rios Wells and Johnson wont stay over .350. Shea wont stay over .330. Overbay, Molina, and Glaus have been as advertised and Hinske is playing over his head. Your offense will slow down and the injuries in your rotation will bite you. Also, you'll have to move Downs into the rotation and you will have to rely on Janssen as well, both of them will not be innings eaters and hence your weaker pen will be exposed. McGowan has fizzled and he was supposed to be a big key to your success, League couldnt be a MLB pitcher yet either. The fact is, if you are a contending team, you need to have a healthy rotation to stay competetive for the most part. You have Chacin and Burnett on the DL, Towers is horrible and Lilly is an injury waiting to happen. Your ace hasnt had a full yr since 2003 either. Too many problems, too many injuries, and too many people playing over their head currently o sustain it. The jays will be an 85 win team this yr, but you wont be in the race....

[riverside sluggers]

well if Burnett goes on the DL again after his next start (probably beginning of June) then i concede that he's a piece of s***, regardless of his talent. IT'S SCAR TISSUE DAMMIT!

 

Beckett is a very good pitcher but has been really struggling lately. Maybe something is wrong with his arm?

 

For Rivernator - just curiosity. what do the Yankees have that overpower the Blue Jays, so as to pull away from them and win a title?

 

He just came off of a very good start against the good Yankees lineup-- 7 innings, 3 Runs, 7 Ks, 0 Walks

 

A start like that will fuel him to have a nice streak for himself.

[Sky]

the jays are playing over their head offensively and are still a few games behind us. Your 2 is injured, your 4 might be out for the yr and your 5 has been mistaken for a batting tee. Your biggest strength last yr was your bullpen depth and so far this yr your pen is 2 men deep with everyone else having an era near 5-6. The fact is, Rios Wells and Johnson wont stay over .350. Shea wont stay over .330. Overbay, Molina, and Glaus have been as advertised and Hinske is playing over his head. Your offense will slow down and the injuries in your rotation will bite you. Also, you'll have to move Downs into the rotation and you will have to rely on Janssen as well, both of them will not be innings eaters and hence your weaker pen will be exposed. McGowan has fizzled and he was supposed to be a big key to your success, League couldnt be a MLB pitcher yet either. The fact is, if you are a contending team, you need to have a healthy rotation to stay competetive for the most part. You have Chacin and Burnett on the DL, Towers is horrible and Lilly is an injury waiting to happen. Your ace hasnt had a full yr since 2003 either. Too many problems, too many injuries, and too many people playing over their head currently o sustain it. The jays will be an 85 win team this yr, but you wont be in the race....

 

Burnett's not out for the year. a few months maybe (combined) but not all year. Chacin;s probably going to avoid the DL altogether. the bullpen has two great players and granted, its struggled with some of the pitchers, but i can name 3 that have been good with one bad outing. Besides, name NY's solid bullpen for me?

The offence may slow down, but i still don't see it being anywhere less than top 5. Only Adams and Hill are weak at this point.

 

You're focusing too much on the now and not on things that may eventually clear up in the next few weeks. Towers is horrible at this point but his last game was much better. He will have a good game next time up. you can mark my words on that one.

 

Will the Yankees be as consistent? Will the rotation and offence hold up as well? Keep in mind that last year the jays were 2-3 games behind the Yanks before Halladay got injured..and then Lilly.. then it went downhill. Even with the offence we had then, we would have won around 5-10 more games with them both relatively healthy.

[Sky]

Any chance of Tampa giving up Kazmir, by the way?

[TheRivernator]

Burnett's not out for the year. a few months maybe (combined) but not all year. Chacin;s probably going to avoid the DL altogether. the bullpen has two great players and granted, its struggled with some of the pitchers, but i can name 3 that have been good with one bad outing. Besides, name NY's solid bullpen for me?

The offence may slow down, but i still don't see it being anywhere less than top 5. Only Adams and Hill are weak at this point.

 

You're focusing too much on the now and not on things that may eventually clear up in the next few weeks. Towers is horrible at this point but his last game was much better. He will have a good game next time up. you can mark my words on that one.

 

Will the Yankees be as consistent? Will the rotation and offence hold up as well? Keep in mind that last year the jays were 2-3 games behind the Yanks before Halladay got injured..and then Lilly.. then it went downhill. Even with the offence we had then, we would have won around 5-10 more games with them both relatively healthy.

 

Sky, I'd like to say welcome to the board, btw, it is reat to talk baseball with a jays fan. Okay, to your post....

 

Burnett is a friggin pussy because he cannot handle a little scar tissue. Seriously, he is a huge concern for you guys, because this is a continuous problem and if he cannot get over it, he may need to be opened up again and have the scar tissue lysed. Chacin was just put on the DL and from the sounds of it, they are not optimistic about him being back anytime soon. His "report" is very similar to a ruptured UCL. A "sprain" means that there is some ligament tearing, but they would say if he ruptured his UCL. This is a problem that will not go away very easily and he will miss some time, and has the potential for needed TJ. Towers has been bad. You say his last start wasnt as bad, but he only lasted 4 innings and gave up 3ER and 6 baserunners. He is 0-7 and has looked totally lost.

 

Your bullpen ERA is 20th in the MLB and 8th in the AL, while having 2 horses who are carrying the load. In contrast, the Yankees pen is 3rd in the AL and 6th in the MLB with Myers and Proctor sub 2, Villone and Rivera sub 3, and Farnsworth at 3.07 in ERA. We also have Octavio Dotel returning soon. Basically our numbers have been inflated by having Tanyon the Manyon completely get destroyed and by having Small return a little rustier than last yr.

 

The offense will slow down. There is no way that Rios stays at .364, no way that Wells stays at .353, no way that Hillenbrand stays at .333, no way Reed Johnson stays at .379, unlikely that Hinske stays above .300, and unlikely that Catalanotto stays second in the league in OBP. Your lineup has totally overachieved for the most part. Guys like Molina, Overbay and Glaus have come as advertised. Adams is a light hitting shortstop anyway, so being in the mid-200s is going to be his norm. The only regular who is clearly underachieving is Hill, but you really dont know what his norm is. After storming on the scene in May and June last yr, he finished the yr (July-October) hitting .226. Now he is hitting .193, this may be what he is and he may need a demotion. Overall, your offense will slow down, your bullpen may come back to the norm, but there is no indication of it happening yet, and you have major questions in your rotation. BUT, your team is good enough to stay over .500 IMHO, but you wont challenge for the title this yr..,..

[TheRivernator]

Any chance of Tampa giving up Kazmir, by the way?

 

nope, he is in his 3rd yr of MLB service and will stay in Tampa for at least another 3 yrs...

[Sky]

ST. PETERSBURG -- The seemingly inevitable trip to the disabled list for Gustavo Chacin is rapidly becoming more of a questionable scenario. Toronto's left-hander played catch for around eight minutes on Sunday at Tropicana Field and didn't appear to have any lingering issues from the arm injury he suffered four days ago.

Toronto pitching coach Brad Arnsberg hopes to get Chacin back on a mound in the next three or four days. The Blue Jays don't need to place the southpaw on the 15-day disabled list just yet -- maybe at all

 

Judging by this, Chacin's really not too bad. He may miss one start, maybe two, tops. Towers pitched a great game at Tampa. Yeah yeah i hear you saying Tampa is a basement dweller, but they've given all the eastern teams problems and they were trying to take advantage of Towers by aggressively swinging the bats. He had a 3 hitter going into the 9th. Like i said, the game before he pitched well, and i think he will continue to get better.

 

I understand that Toronto's offense can't maintain such high numbers.. but who's to say that their offense can't be on the same level as the Sox or the Yankees? Honestly, i'm a little biased, as every fan is about their team, but when i look at it as objectively as possible, i see around an equal number of solid hitters on each team. I think Rios, Wells, Catalanotto, Johnson and Hillenbrand will all remain around 300 though. They're all very good players.

 

Hill won't get much better, i think so also, but each team has a weak link or two. I hope i'm wrong, because his defense has been very good.

 

The AL east won't have one team with a high winning percentage compared to some of the other division leaders in the league, the competition is just too fierce. I do believe that one of these 3 teams will win the AL though.

[Beckett95]

Troy Glaus is making his first career start at shortstop Friday night against the White Sox.

Well, this is certainly gutsy. Glaus has played a total of 15 innings at shortstop in the majors, the last two coming in 2002. He has displayed better range at third this year than he did while struggling with a sore knee in 2005, but it's still hard to imagine him being an adequate shortstop. If the change sticks for a little while, Eric Hinske and Reed Johnson will benefit. Shea Hillenbrand is playing third tonight, and Hinske also figures to see time at the position while Glaus is at shortstop. May. 26 - 6:22 pm et

 

haha i thought this was pretty interesting. Glaus is friggen huge, i could never see him playing SS.

[Papelbon58]

Any chance of Tampa giving up Kazmir, by the way?

 

There is no way they will make the same mistake the Mets did. Heck, even if they do by some string of teh imagination, it wont be to anyone in their division

[dirtysouthjays]

Sky, I'd like to say welcome to the board, btw, it is reat to talk baseball with a jays fan. Okay, to your post....

 

Burnett is a friggin pussy because he cannot handle a little scar tissue..

 

Damn straight. I'm a huge jays fan and I totally believe AJ is a pussy. I think they are looking at his signing as more of a long term commit rather than a one year evaluation, so in that case, I hope he works out his vaginitis and starts playing thru injury.

 

However, your points about our offense 'playing over our heads' is yet to be determined. Jays bats have always been hot and this year our young guys like Rios and Adams are picking it up and they have Wells and Glaus to bat them home. Overbay has been solid and Hillenbrand has been clutch.

 

Personally, I don't think my team will win the title but I think they will scare either the Sox or Yanks (whoever is in second in August)

[DrewDaGreat]

Any chance of Tampa giving up Kazmir, by the way?

 

 

They offered him for Matt Clement, but we turned it down.

[schillingouttheks]

Damn straight. I'm a huge jays fan and I totally believe AJ is a pussy. I think they are looking at his signing as more of a long term commit rather than a one year evaluation, so in that case, I hope he works out his vaginitis and starts playing thru injury.

 

However, your points about our offense 'playing over our heads' is yet to be determined. Jays bats have always been hot and this year our young guys like Rios and Adams are picking it up and they have Wells and Glaus to bat them home. Overbay has been solid and Hillenbrand has been clutch.

 

Personally, I don't think my team will win the title but I think they will scare either the Sox or Yanks (whoever is in second in August)

Wells? Yes. Definitely.

 

Glaus? Only if he hits a homerun. He's not really known to bat for average.

[schillingouttheks]

My bad on the double post.

[Sky]

Aaron hill is picking it up too. People don't realize that his average was under 200 a few weeks ago but now is around 260.

 

AJ's a pussy yeah, i mean he needs to pitch through it, especially when he's getting paid so much money. He really has no right to shoot down any questions about him pitching through pain. He's doing well though in rehab. I think everyone will be praising him in a month for how good he is. If he gets injured again...well..i'm with you.

 

why don't we have a chance to compete with NY or Boston? personally i feel Boston is better overall, i just don't see any huge difference in pitching and offence that makes us inferior.

 

People say that our offense will slow down, and it has a little, but who's to say other teams averages won't slow down at the same time?

[dirtysouthjays]

why don't we have a chance to compete with NY or Boston? personally i feel Boston is better overall....

 

No, I think it's safe to say we *own* Boston.