The Jeter Isn't Clutch Thread

[yankeessuck013]

He probably needs the "C" with that .259 BA.

 

No, I think this is why.

 

http://adamwlad.tripod.com/redsox_yankees/images/varitek_arod2.jpg

[Optimist]

No, I think this is why.

 

http://adamwlad.tripod.com/redsox_yankees/images/varitek_arod2.jpg

 

Because of tripod?

[RedRuffing15]

Personally, you guys are doing the same as giving me stats on why David Wright isn't an Oriole.

[Lord Armand Lynch]

Oh yes, this particular debate has winged its way over the pond to the good ole UK. Now I don't get to see as much baseball as you chaps out there, but it seems to this onlooker from afar that the following rules apply:

 

The New York Yankees are the biggest team in baseball.

 

The player who sucks the least is the best player on the biggest team in baseball.

 

That player should be the League MVP.

 

I'm with the Fire Joe Morgan site on this one. Jeter's numbers (according to them, so don't shoot me people) are broadly comparable with Kevin Youkilis's numbers. Now not that I can compare a mutil-World Champion on a team with a pitching staff to dream of, and a batting line-up loaded with pressure performers (that's the late 90s boys and girls) to our budding 1st base star, but to say he's the season MVP when the Tigers, the White Sox, hell, even the Red Sox are blazing away.

 

What is clutch anyway? I've read this thread through and through and probably am still none the wiser.....

 

Pip Pip all!

[rician blast]

Oh yes, this particular debate has winged its way over the pond to the good ole UK. Now I don't get to see as much baseball as you chaps out there, but it seems to this onlooker from afar that the following rules apply:

 

The New York Yankees are the biggest team in baseball.

 

The player who sucks the least is the best player on the biggest team in baseball.

 

That player should be the League MVP.

 

I'm with the Fire Joe Morgan site on this one. Jeter's numbers (according to them, so don't shoot me people) are broadly comparable with Kevin Youkilis's numbers. Now not that I can compare a mutil-World Champion on a team with a pitching staff to dream of, and a batting line-up loaded with pressure performers (that's the late 90s boys and girls) to our budding 1st base star, but to say he's the season MVP when the Tigers, the White Sox, hell, even the Red Sox are blazing away.

 

What is clutch anyway? I've read this thread through and through and probably am still none the wiser.....

 

Pip Pip all!

 

huh?

[RedRuffing15]

I think(think) hes saying that Jeter just happens to be the best player on the biggest team, so he is projected as something hes not? idk, something like that

[rician blast]

I think(think) hes saying that Jeter just happens to be the best player on the biggest team, so he is projected as something hes not? idk, something like that

 

huh?

[26 Reasons to Hate Us]

For what it's worth...

 

"You want big hits? Guess who has more hits (16) and a better batting average (.364) in close-and-late situations than Thome, Dye and Ortiz? Yep, Jeter. Guess who has more hits with runners in scoring position (30)? Jeter, a .357 hitter in those spots, including .371 with two outs."

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/tom_verducci/07/11/inside.baseball/index.html

[BoSox34]

No doubt about it, Jeter is clutch. He has shown throughout his regular season career and more importantly, postseason career that he can come up with the big hit when the game is on the line. Just because he hasn't batted .1000 in clutch situations doesn't make him bad in the clutch.

[ORS]

Great, he has the highest BA. But that is the least useful batting rate statistic. You want something that measures all of it? RISP, C&L, etc.....and gives credit for extra bases, stolen bases, et al? Look at WPA. Win Probability Added.

 

Pujols - 550

Ortiz - 340

Dye - 326

Jeter - 317

Bonds - 286

 

Jeter is having a good year, but Ortiz is still a bit better in the clutch. Besides, the premise of the article was based on performance prior to this year, so Jeter's performance this year is immaterial. WPA is fairly new, so I don't know where to find previous seasons' perfomance. If that was available, we could see how 'clutch' he really was.

[BoSox34]

Date, site: July 11, 2000

Site: Turner Field, Atlanta

 

Setting: All-Star Game

 

The Play: Starting in place of the injured Alex Rodriguez, Jeter doubled in the first inning to give the American League its first extra-base hit in two years. Jeter's two-run single in the fourth inning provided the winning run for the AL's 6-3 victory and garnered him the first All-Star Game MVP award in Yankees' history. Said Jeter: "Look at all the Yankee greats over the years. You figure at least one of them would win one."

 

Date Oct. 14, 2000

Site: Safeco Field, Seattle

 

Situation: ALCS, Game 4; Yankees lead 2-1

 

The Play: Roger Clemens got the headlines for his 15-strikeout, one-hit shutout of the Mariners, and deservedly so. But it was Jeter who broke a scoreless tie with a fifth-inning, three-run home run off Paul Abbott with Scott Brosius and Chuck Knoblauch aboard. Three days later in the Bronx, the Yankees were headed for the Subway Series after clinching their fourth AL pennant in five years.

 

Date: Oct. 21, 2003

Site: Pro Player Stadium, Miami

 

Situation: World Series, Game 3; series tied 1-1

 

The Play: To most of the Yankees on this night, Josh Beckett was unhittable. Most, but not all. Jeter collected the Bombers' only three hits off Beckett, who struck out 10 in 7 1/3 innings. Jeter scored three runs in the 6-1 victory. Said Joe Torre: "It took me 30-something years to get to the World Series. [Jeter] thinks it's an every-year occurrence. You look in his eyes, you see something special because he's a leader. He was a leader when he was 20 years old."

 

Date: Oct. 9, 1996

Site: Yankee Stadium, Bronx

 

Situation: ALCS, Game 1

 

The Play: In perhaps the ultimate sign of clutchness, Jeter had the presence of mind to hit a fly ball right to where a 12-year-old kid's interference would result in a botched-call home run. Seriously, though, did you remember it was Jeter who hit the ball that would land in Jeffrey Maier's -- and not O's right fielder Tony Tarasco's -- hands? The bogus home run off Armando Benitez tied the game 4-4 in the eighth and the Yankees went on to win 5-4 in 11 innings.

 

Date: Oct. 15, 2001

Site: Yankee Stadium, Bronx, N.Y.

 

Situation: ALDS, Game 5; series tied 2-2

 

The Play: The Yankees led the A's 5-3 in the eighth with Mariano Rivera on the mound and one out. Eric Chavez was on first base. When Terrence Long popped up foul to the third-base side, Jeter sprinted toward the stands and dove, making a ridiculous catch while crashing into the stands. The series was as good as over. Said a sobbing George Steinbrenner: "I've never seen an athlete dominate any sport -- in baseball, in basketball, in football -- like he dominated this series."

 

Date: July 1, 2004

Site: Yankee Stadium, Bronx

 

Situation: Yankees lead Red Sox by 7 1/2 games

 

The Play: Regular-season games don't get much more dramatic than this. In the top of the 12th with runners on second and third and two outs, Boston's Trot Nixon sent a blooper over third base. Jeter sprinted over, caught the ball in fair territory for the third out, then went completely horizontal as his momentum sent him flying into the stands. New York went on to win 5-4 in 13 innings, but Jeter never saw the ending -- he was in the hospital with a busted chin.

 

Date: Oct. 25, 2000

Site: Shea Stadium, Queens, N.Y.

 

Situation: World Series, Game 4; Yankees lead Mets 2-1

 

The Play: In Game 3, the Mets had snapped the Yankees' 14-game World Series winning streak, but Jeter took the momentum back for the Bombers by leading off Game 4 with a home run. The Yanks went on to win 3-2 and wrapped up the Series the next day. Jeter became the first player to win MVP honors in the World Series and All-Star Game in the same season. Only one other player -- Hall of Famer Frank Robinson -- had won both pieces of hardware in a career.

 

Date: Oct. 31, 2001

Site: Yankee Stadium, Bronx, N.Y.

 

Situation: World Series, Game 4; Yankees trail D'backs 2-1

 

The Play: Bad things happen when you leave your pitcher in too long against the Yanks. Byung-Hyun Kim had pitched the eighth inning, blown the save in the ninth on a two-out gopher ball to Tino Martinez, then was left in for the 10th. On Kim's 62nd pitch, three minutes after midnight, Jeter sliced a pitch just over the 314-foot sign in right field to break a personal 1-for-10 slide. "I think I broke my foot hitting [home] plate," Jeter said.

 

Date: Oct. 13, 2001

Site: Oakland Coliseum, Oakland, Calif.

 

Situation: ALDS, Game 3; Yankees trail A's 2-0

 

The Play: Slide, Jeremy, slide! Alas, Jeremy Giambi didn't slide, allowing Jeter to kickstart another Yankees march to the World Series. With the Yankees up 1-0 in the seventh, Giambi reached base with a two-out single. Then Terrence Long doubled into the right-field corner, where Shane Spencer proceeded to overthrow the cutoff man. Suddenly, Jeter came into the picture and flipped the ball to catcher Jorge Posada, who tagged Giambi. "What in the heck is Jeter doing running over there?" Oakland's Johnny Damon wondered after the game.

 

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/baseball/mlb/specials/all_star/2004/07/07/jeter.clutch/

 

Not only does Jeter perform in clutch situations at the plate, but he is also known for his incredible defensive plays in key situations of big games.

[BoSox34]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=OUQTLuRIU8s&search=derek%20jeter

[Mr Crunchy]

Jeter gets credit for saving the Yankees with that flip to home plate but doesn't get blamed for the team's postseason failures since. And think of the times he's been bailed out. His four-strikeout performance against the Twins in the 2004 playoffs was erased because “choker” Alex Rodriguez lifted the Yankees with a monster performance in the same game. And once Aaron Boone hit the Game 7 homer to carry Jeter and the rest of the Yankees past the Red Sox, it didn't matter that Jeter was 7-for-30 with three runs and two RBIs. Perception takes a bat to reality. Pretty good deal if you can get it. Instead, we celebrate his eighthinning homer to beat the Royals earlier this month with tabloid headlines about clutchness even though, according to the Elias Sports Bureau, it was only the second time in Jeter's career that he had any kind of hit after the eighth inning to drive in both the tying and winning runs. Bernie Williams is the only other offensive Yankee to have been around for this entire run, and he has exactly the same number of postseason at-bats as Jeter: 462. In those at-bats,

Williams has six more homers, 11 more doubles, 21 more walks, 33 more RBIs, two more runs and seven fewer strikeouts.

 

 

i like the part that reads

 

We ignore that no player in baseball, not one, made more outs to end games last season with the tying or winning run on base than Jeter did.

[BoSox34]

Jeter gets credit for saving the Yankees with that flip to home plate but doesn't get blamed for the team's postseason failures since.

 

He doesn't get blamed because it wasn't his fault for the entire team failing, last season in the ALDS, Jeter batted .333 with 2 homers and 5 RBIs...those are good clutch playoff statistics and not deserving of being blamed for the whole team losing.

[26 to 6]

No, I think this is why.

 

http://adamwlad.tripod.com/redsox_yankees/images/varitek_arod2.jpg

So he deserves to be captain because of a violent outburst? What a message that must send to the kids. Way to go guys! No wonder so many idiots come out of Boston.

 

 

 

Also, this next point is irrelevent and has nothing to do with clutch performance (well I suppose it does, but not entirely), but since this is the Jeter thread I guess i'll point it out in here. Jeter is second in the AL in hitting witha .345 average I believe. Second only behind Mauer's 373. So I hope all of you guys who like to criticize Jeter's offensive abilities and talent in general enjoy eating those words.

[TheKilo]

So he deserves to be captain because of a violent outburst? What a message that must send to the kids. Way to go guys! No wonder so many idiots come out of Boston.

 

 

 

Also, this next point is irrelevent and has nothing to do with clutch performance (well I suppose it does, but not entirely), but since this is the Jeter thread I guess i'll point it out in here. Jeter is second in the AL in hitting witha .345 average I believe. Second only behind Mauer's 373. So I hope all of you guys who like to criticize Jeter's offensive abilities and talent in general enjoy eating those words.

 

 

A month late on the first point. Nice timing.

 

Second, Varitek refuses to sign photos of that incident. Maybe if ARod just took his base instead of jawing at a pitcher who makes $350K, then it wouldn't have happened. It's not like he threw at his head or anything, he hit him in his elbow pad.

 

Lastly, Jeter is one hell of an offensive ballplayer. He scares the s*** out of me in a big spot, I don't care what the numbers say. Things can be said about his defense, IMO, but he is definitely a very good offensive player.

[ORS]

So he deserves to be captain because of a violent outburst? What a message that must send to the kids. Way to go guys! No wonder so many idiots come out of Boston.

Well, the guy that posted that is from NY. Upstate NY, but NY nonetheless. Foot meet mouth. Well done.

[26 to 6]

A month late on the first point. Nice timing.

 

Second, Varitek refuses to sign photos of that incident. Maybe if ARod just took his base instead of jawing at a pitcher who makes $350K, then it wouldn't have happened. It's not like he threw at his head or anything, he hit him in his elbow pad.

 

Lastly, Jeter is one hell of an offensive ballplayer. He scares the s*** out of me in a big spot, I don't care what the numbers say. Things can be said about his defense, IMO, but he is definitely a very good offensive player.

yeah lol, I realize I was late on the first point. This is the first time i've visited this thread in a month or so, so I hadnt seen it yet. And yes, I realize that Varitek refuses to sign any pictures of the incident, which is very classy and respectable. I definately admire Varitek no question. My point wasnt supposed to be negative towards Varitek, but negative towards that example and the statement that that is the reason he deserves that "C".

[26 to 6]

Well, the guy that posted that is from NY. Upstate NY, but NY nonetheless. Foot meet mouth. Well done.

yeah lol, good point. I didnt notice who the poster was.

[ORS]

yeah lol, good point. I didnt notice who the poster was.

Perhaps dropping preconceived notions about people would help. Just an idea.

[a700hitter]

Overrated prima donna

[26 to 6]

Perhaps dropping preconceived notions about people would help. Just an idea.

Dude shut up, just drop it. I realized I messed up, now just let it die. If you would like I will reiterate my statement..

 

So he deserves to be captain because of a violent outburst? What a message that must send to the kids. Way to go guys! No wonder so many idiots come out of Red Sox Nation.

[ORS]

Dude shut up, just drop it. I realized I messed up, now just let it die. If you would like I will reiterate my statement..

 

So he deserves to be captain because of a violent outburst? What a message that must send to the kids. Way to go guys! No wonder so many idiots come out of Red Sox Nation.

It was just some friendly advice. Nice overreaction. What a tool.

[rician blast]

Also, this next point is irrelevent and has nothing to do with clutch performance (well I suppose it does, but not entirely),

 

you are right. it is irrelevant in the context of this thread.