April 27th @ Cleveland

[Ray10]

Can't get down on Beckett for this one, every pitcher has a bad outing, he's not invincible he can't pitch amazing every game of the year. The bullpen wasn't too great either tough in this won and the bats were just dead again but there really wasn't much that the bats could do in this one against 15 runs. Hopefully the Sox have a better game all around tomorrow night.

[riverside sluggers]

Sorry but you should check the line, he gave up 3 HR and 5 ER

 

sorry but i know my stats. First 7 innings 2 runs (1 HR), then in the 8th inning he gave up the next 3 runs. Rough outings for pitchers are that they never get something going, Beckett lost it late into the game

 

9 Runs in 3.2 innings- Rough

5 Runs in 7.1 innings- yeah dont those 2 starts compare equally?

 

26 to 6: I'm not gonna say much. However I find it pretty ironic that jsinger is talking about it being early still, however thats never the case when the Yankees are on the other side, getting slammed by the Yankees.

 

..also, I love the fact that the amaing, flawless, unbeatable Josh Beckett got roughed up tonight. Maybe you guys will take his penis out of your mouths a little bit now. Sure would be nice.

 

boy I didnt see this one coming. Yankee fans are coming out in bunches after Beckett's first official bad start. Yep damn it you Yankee fans were right, he's going to be Jaret Wright/Carl Pavano for us. What a waste of a pitcher!!

 

Yes we realize he's going to have his bad starts once in a while, but still will be confident in each of the starts he will make

[redoctober]

I'm not gonna say much. However I find it pretty ironic that jsinger is talking about it being early still, however thats never the case when the Yankees are on the other side, getting slammed by the Yankees.

 

..also, I love the fact that the amaing, flawless, unbeatable Josh Beckett got roughed up tonight. Maybe you guys will take his penis out of your mouths a little bit now. Sure would be nice.

 

Whoever said Beckett was infallible?

[CrespoBlows]

Dude Go To Dumb Yankees Rofl

[26 to 6]

Whoever said Beckett was infallible?

Nobody directly said it. But you guys make him out to be the next coming or something.

[ksushi]

All the yankees fans come out of the wood work and all the fickle sox fans jump ship after one game. I'm so surprised. Listening to mike adams right now makes me wanna puke. Trade gonzo, trade MDC, Beckett is not an ace. Christ. One game.

[redoctober]

All the yankees fans come out of the wood work and all the fickle sox fans jump ship after one game. I'm so surprised. Listening to mike adams right now makes me wanna puke. Trade gonzo, trade MDC, Beckett is not an ace. Christ. One game.

 

 

I hear you ksushi, and I'm certainly not one of the ones who jumps ship after one game. Yes, the past two nights, and this road trip overall have been frustrating, however I'm not going to sit here and be a dope and demand half of the team be traded away.

[redsoxrules]

just back from work WOAH! :wtf: happened? beckett had his first bad start of the year ,big deal he will be back strong next game ,however still having problem scoring some runs

[a700hitter]

Nobody directly said it. But you guys make him out to be the next coming or something.

Any Yankee fan would love to have him the Yankee rotation, so bash away while you can. We will get the last laugh as he pumps his fist at Yankee batters that he has just buried.

[a700hitter]

Nobody directly said it. But you guys make him out to be the next coming or something.

He is not the next coming. He is this coming. The next coming is Papelbon.

[TheRivernator]

All the yankees fans come out of the wood work and all the fickle sox fans jump ship after one game. I'm so surprised. Listening to mike adams right now makes me wanna puke. Trade gonzo, trade MDC, Beckett is not an ace. Christ. One game.

 

for what it's worth, I have been here the whole yr. Either way, it is one game, but the fact still remains that against the better offenses, Beckett has struggled. He is a fly ball pitcher and his park helped him A LOT last yr when he was in the roomy Marlin Stadium. Put him in the smaller fields (and Jacobs field is only a little bit smaller, but Broussard's granny would have hit the wall in FLA) and those long fly balls that he gives up are gone. Over the entire yr, he should eat up the poor offenses, so I still expect him to win 15+ and have a sub 4 era, that is assuming he stays healthy. As far as the rest of your rotation, wake has been alright, clement has been abysmal and DiNardo isnt the answer. You better hope Wells can return to form, or you may very well be looking at a deal come July.

 

The bigger surprise is your offense. I had a feeling it would be poorer this season, but I had no idea they'd be 22nd in runs scored, 20th in BA, and 15th in OPS at the end of the first month. Papi can only do so much. Vtek, a typical fast starter is starting the yr slow, and with his propensity for trailing off at the end of the yr, he is in line for a career low season, which happens. Loretta has been awful with his .601 OPS and it looks as if his bat is so much slower than I remember. Lowell has been getting hits, but he is supposed to be a power bat and his 1HR is surprising, even for people who thought he'd continue to downslide. Everyone knew AGon was gotten for defense, but he is hitting .200 with an OPS of .540. That is about as awful as any starter in the league. His OPS is 184th out of 194 qualifying offensive players. Youk has been good, but he is coming back to earth a little bit from his amazing start. And your replacements for Coco have been abysmal. Adding Coco back to your lineup should be a big boost, but he is not the saviour. Youk in the one slot has been great to this point, so adding Coco back to the top of the lineup really wont do anything new. The change will be adding youk to the bottom of the order, which may turn out to waste his OBP because they have been so terrible.

 

Overall, your pitching is the key to getting back to consistent baseball, but your rotation is topheavy and they cannot carry your team's lack of offense. Also, relying on 2 players to be your sole source of runs will cause you to have an inconsistent offense and will eventually force theo's hand to make a move. Overall, this is the most flawed 1st place team so far, but they have the propensity to turn it around quick....

[ksushi]

Ummm good offenses like Texas? I'm sorry I have no time to debate but the statement that Josh Beckett has struggled with good offenses is retarded. Stop being so bias, look at things slightly more objectively for a change. Hes fine. Our rotation is top heavy? I've never heard that term before referring to a rotation. We don't have a 5 starter, no kidding. we have 3 solid, one iffy and one non-exsistent, but that will change one way or the other.

[riverside sluggers]

for what it's worth, I have been here the whole yr. Either way, it is one game, but the fact still remains that against the better offenses, Beckett has struggled. He is a fly ball pitcher and his park helped him A LOT last yr when he was in the roomy Marlin Stadium. Put him in the smaller fields (and Jacobs field is only a little bit smaller, but Broussard's granny would have hit the wall in FLA) and those long fly balls that he gives up are gone. Over the entire yr, he should eat up the poor offenses, so I still expect him to win 15+ and have a sub 4 era, that is assuming he stays healthy. As far as the rest of your rotation, wake has been alright, clement has been abysmal and DiNardo isnt the answer. You better hope Wells can return to form, or you may very well be looking at a deal come July.

 

The bigger surprise is your offense. I had a feeling it would be poorer this season, but I had no idea they'd be 22nd in runs scored, 20th in BA, and 15th in OPS at the end of the first month. Papi can only do so much. Vtek, a typical fast starter is starting the yr slow, and with his propensity for trailing off at the end of the yr, he is in line for a career low season, which happens. Loretta has been awful with his .601 OPS and it looks as if his bat is so much slower than I remember. Lowell has been getting hits, but he is supposed to be a power bat and his 1HR is surprising, even for people who thought he'd continue to downslide. Everyone knew AGon was gotten for defense, but he is hitting .200 with an OPS of .540. That is about as awful as any starter in the league. His OPS is 184th out of 194 qualifying offensive players. Youk has been good, but he is coming back to earth a little bit from his amazing start. And your replacements for Coco have been abysmal. Adding Coco back to your lineup should be a big boost, but he is not the saviour. Youk in the one slot has been great to this point, so adding Coco back to the top of the lineup really wont do anything new. The change will be adding youk to the bottom of the order, which may turn out to waste his OBP because they have been so terrible.

 

Overall, your pitching is the key to getting back to consistent baseball, but your rotation is topheavy and they cannot carry your team's lack of offense. Also, relying on 2 players to be your sole source of runs will cause you to have an inconsistent offense and will eventually force theo's hand to make a move. Overall, this is the most flawed 1st place team so far, but they have the propensity to turn it around quick....

 

umm ok, he faced Texas in Ameriquest Field. They are a very happy HR hitting team. 1 Run in 7 innings. They are one of the best offensive teams in the AL.

 

Opening day he faced the Toronto Blue Jays at Fenway Park, 1 Run in 7 innings. They're pretty good too huh? His other start at Fenway came against Seattle, 1 Run in 7 innings. But I thought he's supposed to be bad each time in hitter's parks??

 

Beckett was hitting consistently 94-97 (couple of times 98), but the location was really off last night sometimes by big margins where tek had his glove and where the ball ended up.

 

Youk, will be like Bill Mueller was at the bottom of the order. He gave stability in his 3 years as the #8 guy. Youk's OBP wasnt wasted because he doesnt just take his walks, he can get his hits and current leads the team in hits with RISP & RISP/2 outs. Mike Lowell will continue to hit # 7 and he is not an automatic out with his .300 avg. As long as he continues to drive the runners as he has been, he will get it done. HRs do heat up when the weather does or thats what I hear anyway.

[TheRivernator]

umm ok, he faced Texas in Ameriquest Field. They are a very happy HR hitting team. 1 Run in 7 innings. They are one of the best offensive teams in the AL.

 

Opening day he faced the Toronto Blue Jays at Fenway Park, 1 Run in 7 innings. They're pretty good too huh? His other start at Fenway came against Seattle, 1 Run in 7 innings. But I thought he's supposed to be bad each time in hitter's parks??

 

Beckett was hitting consistently 94-97 (couple of times 98), but the location was really off last night sometimes by big margins where tek had his glove and where the ball ended up.

 

Youk, will be like Bill Mueller was at the bottom of the order. He gave stability in his 3 years as the #8 guy. Youk's OBP wasnt wasted because he doesnt just take his walks, he can get his hits and current leads the team in hits with RISP & RISP/2 outs. Mike Lowell will continue to hit # 7 and he is not an automatic out with his .300 avg. As long as he continues to drive the runners as he has been, he will get it done. HRs do heat up when the weather does or thats what I hear anyway.

 

First of all, the Texas game was the first start of the season, so that has to play into it. Also, Texas is not the same team they were last yr with Soriano and Dellucci now playing elsewhere. Either way, Texas is a top 10 offense, so they are good, but the jays and Guardians are 3 and 1 respectively in the bigs and he had one good and one bad start vs the jays. Fact is, his era is 4.50 and that is not a saviour's ERA, than again it is early and I love busting your chops. As far as Lowell is concerned, he is a power player with no power. You need him to drive the ball out of the park for him to be worth his money. Youk is a good player, but he is no Bill Mueller, at least not yet and to say he is is pissing on the memory of Bill Mueller. He was only your most clutch player on your team not named big Papi.....

[riverside sluggers]

Youk is a good player, but he is no Bill Mueller, at least not yet and to say he is is pissing on the memory of Bill Mueller.

 

there you go again, saying that i disrespect Bill Mueller. All I said is that Youk would give stability in the 8 hole that Bill Mueller did. He's an OBP machine and has been getting timely hits

[ksushi]

Yeah, don't make excuses for stupid claims. If you make a claim don't make excuses to narrow down what youre talking about to one or two starts that were, in fact bad, to make it seem like there is some sort of trend there. You do that a lot. Beckett is a good pitcher, give a Red Sox player credit for once in your life. Admit that maybe the Sox are a good team. They've got flaws but who doesn't?

 

Texas is a good offense, first game of the season nothing, they're good and that was in a bam box of a ball park. The start against the blue jays was quality too and they've got some pop in their order. Develop actual points rather than making something out of nothing. Develop an arguement for something that is legitimate. Tell me that Francona plays with our offense too much to let them get in a groove, tell me that Rudy Seanez is hurting our bullpen and that Lenny DiNardo has no business as a starter and we can talk.

 

 

 

Lenny does have no business as a starter btw, I like him much more out of the pen.

 

 

 

there you go again, saying that i disrespect Bill Mueller. All I said is that Youk would give stability in the 8 hole that Bill Mueller did. He's an OBP machine and has been getting timely hits

 

This is a great and underrated point. Coco is a great table setter who makes things happen, but Youk has been too thus far. So why hasn't our offense been as good? Stability. We don't have that presence in the 8th spot that we did. Thats really underrated. I really believe that when Coco comes back we only have one 'hole' in our lineup and that is Alex Gonzalez. Everyone else, 1-8 is a solid hitter. Loretta is not going to hit .240 all season long and neither is Tek. Its not going to happen. Besides that, the book on AGon says that he goes through cold streaks. Horrible terrible cold streaks, and then he gets hot as hell for a couple of weeks tearing the cover off the ball. Wait until he goes nuts. Then there will be more patience during these cold streaks. He will hit the ball eventually, and yeah, hes not a great hitter, I'm not even sure that his hot streaks have ever even made him a remotely good hitter at any point in his career, but the hot streaks can remind you how he is worth it. His defense is where his worth is. Any offense he provides is a bonus. The reason we have left so many runners on base is because of a presence missing out of the back of our lineup. We have been depending on A-gon with the bases loaded and 2 outs. If youkilis is in the 8 spot, he'll hit in those spots and it might be men on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out or bases still loaded 1 out etc. and if Agon gets out, its Coco with 2 outs. Having Coco back will drastically improve the offense.

 

I might have articulated that poorly, but basically. Cheer the hell up. Beckett is still a good pitcher, still an ace. One bad outing can't take that away from him. Schilling is still on the Red Sox and so is wake papelbon etc.

 

We'll live.

[TheRivernator]

Yeah, don't make excuses for stupid claims. If you make a claim don't make excuses to narrow down what youre talking about to one or two starts that were, in fact bad, to make it seem like there is some sort of trend there. You do that a lot. Beckett is a good pitcher, give a Red Sox player credit for once in your life. Admit that maybe the Sox are a good team. They've got flaws but who doesn't?

 

Texas is a good offense, first game of the season nothing, they're good and that was in a bam box of a ball park. The start against the blue jays was quality too and they've got some pop in their order. Develop actual points rather than making something out of nothing. Develop an arguement for something that is legitimate. Tell me that Francona plays with our offense too much to let them get in a groove, tell me that Rudy Seanez is hurting our bullpen and that Lenny DiNardo has no business as a starter and we can talk.

 

 

 

Lenny does have no business as a starter btw, I like him much more out of the pen.

 

 

 

 

 

This is a great and underrated point. Coco is a great table setter who makes things happen, but Youk has been too thus far. So why hasn't our offense been as good? Stability. We don't have that presence in the 8th spot that we did. Thats really underrated. I really believe that when Coco comes back we only have one 'hole' in our lineup and that is Alex Gonzalez. Everyone else, 1-8 is a solid hitter. Loretta is not going to hit .240 all season long and neither is Tek. Its not going to happen. Besides that, the book on AGon says that he goes through cold streaks. Horrible terrible cold streaks, and then he gets hot as hell for a couple of weeks tearing the cover off the ball. Wait until he goes nuts. Then there will be more patience during these cold streaks. He will hit the ball eventually, and yeah, hes not a great hitter, I'm not even sure that his hot streaks have ever even made him a remotely good hitter at any point in his career, but the hot streaks can remind you how he is worth it. His defense is where his worth is. Any offense he provides is a bonus. The reason we have left so many runners on base is because of a presence missing out of the back of our lineup. We have been depending on A-gon with the bases loaded and 2 outs. If youkilis is in the 8 spot, he'll hit in those spots and it might be men on 2nd and 3rd with 1 out or bases still loaded 1 out etc. and if Agon gets out, its Coco with 2 outs. Having Coco back will drastically improve the offense.

 

I might have articulated that poorly, but basically. Cheer the hell up. Beckett is still a good pitcher, still an ace. One bad outing can't take that away from him. Schilling is still on the Red Sox and so is wake papelbon etc.

 

We'll live.

 

 

All of these points lead to one thing. It is still early for both teams. I think we can now see that those of you pointing towards the yankee demise because of a poor start were premature, and those of us pointing towards the sox demise are likely premature as well. The only thing that I will point out before I go for my run is this....

 

Last yr at this point, the sox were 11-10, which was an ok start, but they were +24 in run differential meaning that they were winning by large margins and losing close game. It was only a matter of time before they started winning a lot of games, and that is in fact what happened as they started to win the close ones and continued to win going away in others. This yr, they are -9 in run differential and at 13-9 in the standings. This means that the games that they win are close and the games that they lose are not. Here is the significance of that stat, and mind you the sox have not played the toughest of schedules, mind you it isnt the easiest of schedules either. The point is that last yr, only 2 teams finished the season with a minus run differential and had winning records, and those 2 teams were Fla and SD, and they were a total of 6 games over .500. On the flip side, only 2 sub .500 teams had a + run differential and those teams were Tor and Texas, and they were a total of 6 games below .500. Now take a look at the yankees, they are +44 in run differential yet are only 11-9. This means that they are losing close games and winning blowouts, they have been in every game for the most part. This trend means that they will likely have a successful season if they keep this up as they will start to win some of the close ones and will continue to win the games that they score a ton of runs.

 

My point is, run differential is a good stat to follow, and if the trend continues to where the sox cannot step on the throat in their victories (ie they cannot take a 2 run game and turn it into a blowout like they did in the past) yet continue to lose big games (+5 run diff), the tides will turn. Over the long haul, close games typically even out with the better teams winning about 50-60% of their 1-2 run games. The games that do not even out are the 5+ run games and those are dependent on offense and pitching and that is where the better teams make their hay. Right now the sox dont have a good mix as the offense has struggled and the burden is on the pitching. I'll tell you right now, relying on your pitching to carry you through the regular season is not as money as it is in the postseason. You need the offense to ease the burden and lessen the load on the relievers as well as the starters. As it is, the sox are 22 games deep and Papelbon is on pace for an 80IP season as a closer, that is way too much. Foulke is on pace for a near 100IP season. Also, starters typically start the yr strong and then hit the wall as the season goes on. Then they regain their edge for the home stretch. If your pen is already taxed going into April, which the numbers indicate, you are setting yourselves up for failure once the starters start to show a little wear.

 

Basically, your offense has not lessened the load on the pitching and the pitching can only carry you so far this early in the regular season. One man returning isnt going to do it either. You need the sox offenses of yesteryear and before in order to lessen the pitching burden. As it is, the sox are not playing like a team destined for the playoffs, but this is their first rough patch in their defense. It will be interesting who starts them on their next big winning streak, if it is the offense or the pitching. If it is the latter solely responsible for your next stretch of winning, then there will be issues. TB is this weekend, now if the chance for your O to make their hay.....