Papelbon's Future

[26 to 6]

Well obviously as we all know, Papelbon is by nature a starter and the intention is/was to make him a mainstay in the Sox rotation for years to come. However with his success in the bullpen (this year, and last), and the fact that he really hasnt proven himself as a starter at the Major League level, does anybody think that the So xshould leave him in the bullpen throughout the duration of his career? I mean, as we have seen, he can provide you guys with a good, cheap closer who has no problem getting the job done. Would it make more sense to leave him in the pen rather than at a later date shift him to the rotation, and take the risk of him faltering and not doing well, and possibly just losing all confidence and runining his chances of returning to the pen as a solid reliever? I mean, you can trade Foulke and get some prospects, and unload his salary at the same time (there will be plenty of teams interested in adding a proven veteran closer like Keith Foulke) and still be covered at the closer's spot for years to come.

 

Just wanted your thoughts on this.

[redoctober]

Well obviously as we all know, Papelbon is by nature a starter and the intention is/was to make him a mainstay in the Sox rotation for years to come. However with his success in the bullpen (this year, and last), and the fact that he really hasnt proven himself as a starter at the Major League level, does anybody think that the So xshould leave him in the bullpen throughout the duration of his career? I mean, as we have seen, he can provide you guys with a good, cheap closer who has no problem getting the job done. Would it make more sense to leave him in the pen rather than at a later date shift him to the rotation, and take the risk of him faltering and not doing well, and possibly just losing all confidence and runining his chances of returning to the pen as a solid reliever? I mean, you can trade Foulke and get some prospects, and unload his salary at the same time (there will be plenty of teams interested in adding a proven veteran closer like Keith Foulke) and still be covered at the closer's spot for years to come.

 

Just wanted your thoughts on this.

 

The plan, as of now, is for Hansen to eventually become the mainstay closer, and for Papelbon to become part of the rotation.

[26 to 6]

The plan, as of now, is for Hansen to eventually become the mainstay closer, and for Papelbon to become part of the rotation.

Right, i'm aware of the plan, but I was just interested in everybody's personal opinion on the matter. I mean, Paps has looked so good in this role, it's sort of like "if it aint broke, dont fix it." Unless he struggles tremendously I dont see why he should be shifted back to the rotation. But thats just my opinion.

[redoctober]

Right, i'm aware of the plan, but I was just interested in everybody's personal opinion on the matter. I mean, Paps has looked so good in this role, it's sort of like "if it aint broke, dont fix it." Unless he struggles tremendously I dont see why he should be shifted back to the rotation. But thats just my opinion.

 

 

He's doing great as a closer, but to make him the mainstay closer would be wasting his abilities. He can definately pitch a stellar seven innings every five days.

[26 to 6]

He's doing great as a closer, but to make him the mainstay closer would be wasting his abilities. He can definately pitch a stellar seven innings every five days.

I agree that he can, but really, he hasnt proven that he can do it at the Major League level. I mean we can assume all we want, but you never know. Remember Brandon Claussen. He was supposed to be the real deal back when the Yankees had him. And now he's on a regular shuttle between Louisville and Cincy. Some guys just dont pan out as expected. And rather than take that chance with Papelbon, I think it would make more sense to leave him be.

[redoctober]

I agree that he can, but really, he hasnt proven that he can do it at the Major League level. I mean we can assume all we want, but you never know. Remember Brandon Claussen. He was supposed to be the real deal back when the Yankees had him. And now he's on a regular shuttle between Louisville and Cincy. Some guys just dont pan out as expected. And rather than take that chance with Papelbon, I think it would make more sense to leave him be.

 

Papelbon is not Claussen. He won't remain status quo all year.

[jsinger121]

Brandon Claussen was another overhyped Yankee prospect that had bust written all over him. Papelbon is no Claussen and never will be. Papelbon has already had a better career than Claussen could ever imagine.

[ahhchon]

simply put.. he WILL become a starter.

 

closers are dime a dozen. a closer is nothing more than a reliever that comes in only in save situations. plenty of relivers can do that. there are the few guys who are "top notch" closers. those are guys who have electric stuff but cannot be out there every 5 days and pitch 100+ innings.

 

hansen is the closer of the future, he throws harder than papelbon and should be at the end of that bullpen in 07. he came up last year and showed he is capable of pitching to mlb batters, he just needs fine tuning.

 

john

[ksushi]

Papelbon has proven that he has the ability to start. Remember when everyone said he couldn't get the job done against the angels and he shut them out for five innings? Remember when he said he was only working on specific things, and he would begin to pitch well towards the end of ST and then he did exactly that? The kid can flat out pitch. He will be a starter, and a good one.

 

I expect if Wells does indeed hang up the cleets, Papelbon will be in the rotation.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Papelbon should certainly be a SP. Maybe not this season, or at least not right away but his value to the team is much higher as SP. Hes only started 3 MLB games and has been impressive, 2.25 ERA in 16 innings of work, granted a small sample but hes obviously shown he can pitch effectively as MR/CL and im sure he will translate well as SP over a season. And it helps to have a guy in hte minors who could be just as dominant as CL named Craig Hansen.

[ORS]

I don't know what Papelbon needs to do more to prove himself worthy of a rotation spot. In three spot starts last year, the only thing holding him back from delivering a quality start in each one was a strict pitch count to protect his arm. He's shown excellent refinement and command of both his slider and splitter this year. ++FB, +Slider, +Splitter, and moxie.....that stuff belongs in the rotation.

[Rdsxmbnt]

Imagine a rotation next year of

 

1. Schilling

2. Beckett

3. Papelbon

4. Clement

5. Lester

 

Now THAT would be fun to watch!

[ahhchon]

i believe schillings 07 contract is guaranteed if he pitches well in 06.. i don't want the question the guy but he's going to be old. whether or not he's a sox in 07 depends on his 06 performance..

 

john

[jsinger121]

i believe schillings 07 contract is guaranteed if he pitches well in 06.. i don't want the question the guy but he's going to be old. whether or not he's a sox in 07 depends on his 06 performance..

 

john

 

 

Schilling's contract for 2007 became guaranteed when the sox won the world series.

[ahhchon]

wow, he raped us with that contract.. i sure hope to god this streak he's on stays somewhat consistant all year..

 

please don't age schill.. please

 

john

[26 to 6]

Papelbon is not Claussen. He won't remain status quo all year.

I didnt say he was, I was just using that as an example. But nowhere is it guaranteed that he will translate to a great starter. Despite his good performances so far in his starts, that doesnt mean anything. Jorge DePaula brought a perfect game into the 7th inning of his Major League debut and even won a spot in the 2004 rotation. Look where he's at now. There are plenty of guys out there who were dubbed the next great starting pitcher, but just couldnt do it at the Major League level. Now dont get me wrong, i'm not saying Papelbon cant do it in the bigs as a starter, i'm saying I dont know for CERTAIN, despite his first few starts.

 

closers are dime a dozen. a closer is nothing more than a reliever that comes in only in save situations. plenty of relivers can do that. there are the few guys who are "top notch" closers. those are guys who have electric stuff but cannot be out there every 5 days and pitch 100+ innings.

You're sadly mistaken. Closers, good ones at least, are NOT a dime a dozen. Some guys who can do a fantastic job in the 7th or 8th inning just cant getthe last 3 outs. A good example is Latroy Hawkins. Superb setup man, but when he was thrown into the closers role in Minny and Chicago, he didnt do so hot. Same with Dotel. Following the Mets, Braden Looper is another one that comes to mind from recent years. The greatest stuff in the world, but the wrong mentality for closing games out.

[Cityofchampions33]

Imagine a rotation next year of

 

1. Schilling

2. Beckett

3. Papelbon

4. Clement

5. Lester

 

Now THAT would be fun to watch!

 

That's what I can't wait for, if all goes well that could be one of the best starting rotations in the legaue

[ahhchon]

You're sadly mistaken. Closers, good ones at least, are NOT a dime a dozen. Some guys who can do a fantastic job in the 7th or 8th inning just cant getthe last 3 outs. A good example is Latroy Hawkins. Superb setup man, but when he was thrown into the closers role in Minny and Chicago, he didnt do so hot. Same with Dotel. Following the Mets, Braden Looper is another one that comes to mind from recent years. The greatest stuff in the world, but the wrong mentality for closing games out.

 

you think what you want, i'll do the same.. 90% of good relievers can close, that's the fact. the ones that can't are the ones that have issues with butterflies. aka latroy hawkins.. who knows why he can't do it. as for dotel, he didn't close for that long. but when he did he was pretty successful. i believe his era+ in 2004 was 160ish.. which isn't the best, but not bad at all either.

 

20% of closers are brought up as closers from the farm system. the other 80% are transformed into closers from relivers. just right now mike gonz is being turned into a closer.

 

guys like scott linebrink would have no problem closing. in a closer you want someone that has a high k/bb and k/9 ratio. it's that simple, the better chance he has striking someone out, the lower chances he'll let up runs. look all all the closers in the league, the ones who will be mainstays are ones who strike people out.

 

john

[KeepTheFaith1229]

26, have you ever read Moneyball? Billy Beane turns ordinary pitchers into closers, lets them rack up some saves, and then deals them away with their inflated value. Same will probably be done to Huston Street sometime. Closers aren't nearly as valuable as starters.

[ahhchon]

he won't trade street until his year before FA... for the money he's the best.

 

john

[TheRivernator]

26, have you ever read Moneyball? Billy Beane turns ordinary pitchers into closers, lets them rack up some saves, and then deals them away with their inflated value. Same will probably be done to Huston Street sometime. Closers aren't nearly as valuable as starters.

 

depends on what you need. With Beckett and Schilling dominating to this point, your staff needs a solid closer more than another starter...

[HeadOfSoxNation]

Foulke's done...I'd say at least for the duration of this season, Little Pappy should continue to close out games for the Sox. If Hansen can do it next year and beyond, then I say once he proves himself, we should work Papelbon into the rotation, but until that point, don't mess with success.

[Sox Fan on Cape]

depends on what you need. With Beckett and Schilling dominating to this point, your staff needs a solid closer more than another starter...

Damn right. At this point , a sarter ( even a good one ) can have an effect on 20 something games. But a really good closer may determine the outcome of how many ? Hint: its significantly more than 20+.

[redoctober]

Theo when he went into his premature retirement stated that the transformation of the team will begin to happen beginning this season. Most of the players they've signed this year such as Loretta, Gonzalez, Seanez etc. are makeshift signings. I'm not trying to degrade Loretta and Gonzalez's value, but they are not part of the Red Sox future.

[ksushi]

Damn right. At this point , a sarter ( even a good one ) can have an effect on 20 something games. But a really good closer may determine the outcome of how many ? Hint: its significantly more than 20+.

 

At this point though, we don't really have a fifth starter, I would say thats a pretty big problem. Considering we have a deep bullpen and more than one option at closer, I would say its more important to have a fifth starter.

[Texas_Red_Sox_Fan]

My guess is Hansen or Alverez will be up soon. Pab will go to the #5 spot. That will give us :

 

Schill

Wake

Josh

Clement

Paps

 

 

I like the soune of that . DiNardo needs more time, Alverez and Hansen should be up soon.

 

Tessie!!...Nuff Ced, McGreevy Shouted

[ksushi]

Neither Hansen or Alavarez will be up any time soon. Hansen only in an emergency. More likely you will see MDC and Edger Martinez out of our farm system. Edgar has a chance to be special. I read some stuff on him this weekend at borders and man, he is impressive.

[YazYaz04]

papelbon 07= second coming of clemens 86.

 

this guy can be an electric starter, let him be a band-aid for that closers spot, and when wells leaves they'll be forced to find another solution and put paps in the 5 hole. I disagree with the statements that closers arent as valuable as starters. I also dont agree with the dime a dozen theory. Good closers, great closers rather are a rare and dying breed. theres going to have to be some help at the back of the pen.

[ksushi]

I wouldn't be so quick to don the kid the next Clemens. Hes good, no two ways about it. He will be good for a long time in any role he plays because hes a pitcher. Clemens 86? I doubt it. I really doubt it.

 

A agree that the really good closer is a dying breed, and I definetly think that Papelbon can be a great starter. He is a starter filling in as a closer, not a closer who hopes to become a starter. Hes a good one.

[TheRivernator]

Undo pressure on the kid to call him the next clemens. I am fairly certain there will never be a "clemens" again...