Wang looked great

[ORS]

In that post I talked about Sexson not being an elite player. As usual you pick out one thing that fits your arguement and you harp on it. Just so you know I didnt set the tone, he decided to say that he "owned" me to which I continued on with that tone. Atleast know what your talking about please.

I didn't see that as disrespectful. At least not to the level of saying someone has said the "dumbiest" things of all time. You placed Sexson out of the elite because he K's a lot, 700 showed how one of our elites does exactly that, so he shot down your point. Did he gloat a little? You betcha, but he didn't call you an all-time stupid person. I'm not picking out the one thing that fits my argument, I'm saying that thing is the only reason I responded in the first place.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

I didn't see that as disrespectful. At least not to the level of saying someone has said the "dumbiest" things of all time. You placed Sexson out of the elite because he K's a lot, 700 showed how one of our elites does exactly that, so he shot down your point. Did he gloat a little? You betcha, but he didn't call you an all-time stupid person. I'm not picking out the one thing that fits my argument, I'm saying that thing is the only reason I responded in the first place.

I viewed it as disrespectful esp when his original point was incorrect.

[ORS]

I viewed it as disrespectful esp when his original point was incorrect.

Well, that is his opinion, so of course he's going to defend it. And, by saying Sexson isn't elite merely because he strikes out a lot, you left the door open for that to be shot down.

 

Besides, it is really a semantical point. Does it really matter if Sexson is elite or just sub-elite when assessing the strengths of the Mariners? Not really IMO, which gets back to one of the things I said earlier. You are only harping on this minute detail of player classification in order to discredit Beckett.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Besides, it is really a semantical point. Does it really matter if Sexson is elite or just sub-elite when assessing the strengths of the Mariners? Not really IMO, which gets back to one of the things I said earlier. You are only harping on this minute detail of player classification in order to discredit Beckett.

It also doesnt change the fact that Beckett faced a lineup that had the 29th best OPS last season and scored the 22nd most runs in the league last season. Is Johjima going to make that big of a diffrence? At best they are a below avarage club and thats better then last year when IMO they were terrible.

 

That said Beckett did face the Rangers and Blue Jays and beat them both so I'm not even discrediting his proformence. I'm just pointing out that Seattle is not a good offensive club. Which was 700's point that they are far superior to the Twins when in fact they are not.

[a700hitter]

and I admitted that so whats the point now? It doesnt change the fact that Sexson isnt an elite hitter. In fact maybe you can admit you were wrong and admit that the Mariners are a terrible offensive club.

Even though the issue of whether Sexson is elite or not is totally unrelated to the reason I owned you. That had to do with your admittedly incorrect statement about the relationship between K's and being an elite player. Let's not forget that. Nevertheless, I will respond to you regarding whether Sexson is an elite player.

 

His career numbers may not indicate that he is an elite hitter, but these career numbers don't miss by much. However, he put up elite-quality numbers last year. He was 8th in the league in OPS, ahead of Konerko, Godzilla, Sheffield, Tejada and Michael Young. He was 6th in the league in Homers and RBI. He trailed only AROd, Manny, Ortiz and Konerko in Homers. That's pretty good company. He trailed ARod, Ortiz, Manny, Texeira and Sheffield in RBI. He was ahead of Vlad, Matsui, Hafner and Tejada. Plus, he had 99 runs scored. I think he is only now reaching his full potential and he is an elite hitter. In light of the company that he shares, it is almost impossible to argue that he is clearly not an elite player.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

His career numbers may not indicate that he is an elite hitter, but these career numbers don't miss by much. However, he put up elite-quality numbers last year. He was 8th in the league in OPS, ahead of Konerko, Godzilla, Sheffield, Tejada and Michael Young. He was 6th in the league in Homers and RBI. He trailed only AROd, Manny, Ortiz and Konerko in Homers. That's pretty good company. He trailed ARod, Ortiz, Manny, Texeira and Sheffield in RBI. He was ahead of Vlad, Matsui, Hafner and Tejada. Plus, he had 99 runs scored. I think he is only now reaching his full potential and he is an elite hitter. In light of the company that he shares, it is almost impossible to argue that he is clearly not an elite player.

Its great to pick out one year but you cant tell me he repeats that. I tend to side on consistancy and Sexson because of injuries etc has not put up consistant numbers to warrent elite status. Thats what makes guys like A-Rod and Manny etc so great. You can pencil them in for there usual. BTW feel free to respond to my question about the Mariners at any time.

[CrespoBlows]

Sexson smashed around 45 HR's with the Brewers. Twice.

 

Sounds consistent.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Sexson smashed around 45 HR's with the Brewers. Twice.

 

Sounds consistent.

In between them he hit 29 and then after his last year with the Brewers he got injured and only hit 9.

[a700hitter]

Which was 700's point that they are far superior to the Twins when in fact they are not.

Seattle was superior to the Twins last year. OPS is a good measure for individual stats, because it is a good indicia that a player with a high OPS will help or does help his team produce more runs. IMO It means very little as a team statistic. The only important team statistic is Runs. That's what it is all about, and that's all that matters. Seattle was 22nd last year and the Twins were 25th, and that divide should widen, because Seattle has improved it's offense, while the Twins have remained basically the same.

[CrespoBlows]

Sexson's been injured, just once. Did you see he hit those 9 HR's in only 90 AB's?

 

As for the 29 HR's, you cannot deny the fact that Sexson had a great year. .279/.363/.504/.867. He also drove in 102 runs. The fact that he didn't hit a lot of homeruns, doesn't change the fact, that he still was a great hitter.

[ORS]

It also doesnt change the fact that Beckett faced a lineup that had the 29th best OPS last season and scored the 22nd most runs in the league last season. Is Johjima going to make that big of a diffrence? At best they are a below avarage club and thats better then last year when IMO they were terrible.

 

That said Beckett did face the Rangers and Blue Jays and beat them both so I'm not even discrediting his proformence. I'm just pointing out that Seattle is not a good offensive club. Which was 700's point that they are far superior to the Twins when in fact they are not.

No, they aren't far superior to the Twins, but I don't recall 700 making that point. He said they were better than the Twins because they had two elite, in his opinion, hitters. The Twins, I think everyone can agree, have no elite hitters, although Mauer is close. I enterpretted that to mean that the Seattle lineup is more daunting to a pitcher, and I agree with that. That said, neither team's performance last year was remarkable. MIN edged SEA in OPS by 0.005 points, and SEA edged MIN in runs scored by 11. So, yeah, in terms of performance there is no clear cut favorite, but like I said, that wasn't the point he made.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Seattle was superior to the Twins last year. OPS is a good measure for individual stats, because it is a good indicia that a player with a high OPS will help or does help his team produce more runs. IMO It means very little as a team statistic. The only important team statistic is Runs. That's what it is all about, and that's all that matters. Seattle was 22nd last year and the Twins were 25th, and that divide should widen, because Seattle has improved it's offense, while the Twins have remained basically the same.

Yeah because the Mariners scored 11 more runs then them that makes them superior. They might have stayed the same but there young players like Morneau and Mauer have gotten better. I think that balences out the effect of adding Johjima

[ORS]

Yeah because the Mariners scored 11 more runs then them that makes them superior. They might have stayed the same but there young players like Morneau and Mauer have gotten better. I think that balences out the effect of adding Johjima

And, Lopez and Reed have improved for the Mariners.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

No, they aren't far superior to the Twins, but I don't recall 700 making that point. He said they were better than the Twins because they had two elite, in his opinion, hitters. The Twins, I think everyone can agree, have no elite hitters, although Mauer is close. I enterpretted that to mean that the Seattle lineup is more daunting to a pitcher, and I agree with that. That said, neither team's performance last year was remarkable. MIN edged SEA in OPS by 0.005 points, and SEA edged MIN in runs scored by 11. So, yeah, in terms of performance there is no clear cut favorite, but like I said, that wasn't the point he made.

 

The Mariners have two of the elite hitters in the league-- Ichiro and Sexson. There new catcher is really good too. Their order is far superior to the Twinkies.

 

If that was in fact the case who cares if they had 2 "elite" hitters? It didnt help them score WAY more runs then the Twins. As I said before in a previous post its nice to have 2 great hitters but you wont score much if the other 7 stink. That was the case with the Mariners.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

And, Lopez and Reed have improved for the Mariners.

Its possible, Mauer and Morneau IMO have much more potential then those 2 and they have shown improvment while Reed had a rough season at the plate last season and Lopez has never played more then 57 games so its his first season as the full time player.

[AlexanderTheGreat13]

Sexson's been injured, just once. Did you see he hit those 9 HR's in only 90 AB's?

 

As for the 29 HR's, you cannot deny the fact that Sexson had a great year. .279/.363/.504/.867. He also drove in 102 runs. The fact that he didn't hit a lot of homeruns, doesn't change the fact, that he still was a great hitter.

Maybe I have a higher standards for players. I view great as legendary type players. Then there are the rest.

[CrespoBlows]

Maybe I have a higher standards for players. I view great as legendary type players. Then there are the rest.

 

dude i just got owned

[ORS]

Its possible, Mauer and Morneau IMO have much more potential then those 2 and they have shown improvment while Reed had a rough season at the plate last season and Lopez has never played more then 57 games so its his first season as the full time player.

I'm not saying that Reed and Lopez are on par with the M & M Twins. But, if you are going to credit one team for having players improve, you have to credit the other. Yes, M & M's improvement may make up the upgrade Jojima provides over Olivo, but I don't think it will be so good as to make up for that upgrade plus the improvement of Reed and Lopez. That said, maybe it's all a wash because of the upgrade Luis Castillo will be for the Twins at 2B. All I know is, looking at the power and potential of the two lineups, if I'm a pitcher, I'd much rather face the Twins.