He's no Joe Torre.......Or is he?

[KeepTheFaith1229]

Torre seems to always be one step ahead of the opposing manager and he's a master at handling players and his insane boss. I hate being against him in close games.

 

He got outmanaged by Tito in the '04 ALCS, but that is just one series and Torre has proven himself to be an excellent manager.

[redsoxrules]

cox is better than La Russa.....no one has had more talented teams than La Russa and only won 1 title. his A's teams should have never lost to the Dodgers or Cincy.

 

cox has had great teams himself ,14 strait division titles , and only 1 world series to show for , to be honest those 2 are about the same

[26 to 6]

Torre is a good field manager as long as he has someone to counter his natural lack of aggression. Without Zim's aggressiveness as the bench coach, Torre has gotten staid wit the offense and isn't attacking as often as he hsould be. Case in point, Game 6. If Zim was on the bench with Torre, I can guarantee we woulda seen at least 3 bunts in the first 3 innings just to test that ankle.

I still dont know what the f*** happened there. Why didnt ANYONE bunt on him?? Jeter is a fantastic bunter, he should have bunted. As should have the entire f***ing team!!!!

 

That was probably one of only two times I really disliked Joe Torre (and for anybody that knows me, I am the biggest Joe Torre supporter around). The 2004 ALCS and the 2003 World Series were just absolutely horrific.

 

f***ing Jeff Weaver in the 11th inning...of all people, why Jeff Weaver????

But I betcha Alex Gonzalez isnt complaining about that one.

[seabeachfred]

Bobby Cox would be my choice because he wins all the time with new players and talent. Oh sure, of those 14 Divisional Titles he has won only ONE World Series (1995), but his teams always get better as the regular season progresses and I'm sure if we could win 14 divisional titles in a row we would take it because the Red Sox would win more than one World Series on a run like that. I've come to believe that Tony LaRussa is very overrated. If you watch the 2004 World Series, Francona completely outmanaged him.

[mosox]

He got outmanaged by Tito in the '04 ALCS, but that is just one series and Torre has proven himself to be an excellent manager.

 

I don't want to start Tito bashing, because I believe he is a good manager, but the '04 run was more about outstanding performances by individuals than it was strategic moves by Francona, although he did use solid defensive players late in games with leads, which is what you would expect.

As for Torre, I think he did make a difference in '03 against Grady. Lifting Roger early in Game 7 for Mussina, I believe, cost the Sox a trip to the series that year.

[seabeachfred]

Even though I despise the Yankees with unmitigated hatred, I have to hand it to you 26-6 because of your real passion for your team. I love seeing that in baseball fans. I might go one better. Sure, Torre should have bunted on Schilling in that 6th game; a blind man should have seen it. However, remember Grady "f***in" Little keeping Pedro in there in the 8th inning when everyone in Red Sox Nation knew he was a glorified BP pitcher after he had thrown 100 pitches or more in a game (something like a 370 average). So maybe you owed us one. I still think the 2003 ALCS Playoffs took so much out of the Yankees that they gave less than a full effort against the Marlins. It looked like to me anyway.

[seabeachfred]

Mosox, here is what aggravates me about Francona's managing last season. Even though you probably won't agree with me, I'm of the firm belief that he outmanaged three very outstandingly rated field generals in the Playoffs----Mike Scioiscia, Joe Torre, and Tony LaRussa. In my opinion he did--with his defensive moves, his pinch running moves, his use of the bullpen, and so on. Last year he appeared to me anyway to be a cruise control, and he became very stubborn is his insistance on keeping Millar in the lineup and his constant use of Embree, even though the latter was giving up walk off homers by the carload.

[Cityofchampions33]

Mosox, here is what aggravates me about Francona's managing last season. Even though you probably won't agree with me, I'm of the firm belief that he outmanaged three very outstandingly rated field generals in the Playoffs----Mike Scioiscia, Joe Torre, and Tony LaRussa. In my opinion he did--with his defensive moves, his pinch running moves, his use of the bullpen, and so on. Last year he appeared to me anyway to be a cruise control, and he became very stubborn is his insistance on keeping Millar in the lineup and his constant use of Embree, even though the latter was giving up walk off homers by the carload.

 

yeah, totally agree, he coaches with sentiment which as even I've been taught cannot be in the way of your decisions. Yeah, maybe the guy was greta lats year, but he has to earn those dollars and you can't just keep on playing them and paying them for hitting .270 with 7 HRs. He almost did it with Bellhorn in the 04 ALCS but he was lucky bell cam through

[26 to 6]

Even though I despise the Yankees with unmitigated hatred, I have to hand it to you 26-6 because of your real passion for your team. I love seeing that in baseball fans. I might go one better. Sure, Torre should have bunted on Schilling in that 6th game; a blind man should have seen it. However, remember Grady "f***in" Little keeping Pedro in there in the 8th inning when everyone in Red Sox Nation knew he was a glorified BP pitcher after he had thrown 100 pitches or more in a game (something like a 370 average). So maybe you owed us one. I still think the 2003 ALCS Playoffs took so much out of the Yankees that they gave less than a full effort against the Marlins. It looked like to me anyway.

I agree. We were so wiped out, physically, mentally, and emotionally after the ALCS that we just looked terrible in the World Series. Especially considering we had practically no break between the playoffs and World Series.

[seabeachfred]

Champ, good to see we are the same page with Francona. Still, I cannot figure out why a guy will go up against the best managers in baseball and completely surprise everyone by outshining them completely, then coming a cropper the next season when he looks like someone from the Pony League. Maybe with his better health entering this season and a hunger to return to the high life of the World Series we will be Francona at his best. Cross your fingers with me on that, ok?

[seabeachfred]

Hey 26-6, believe it or not I hope the Red Sox can just beat the Yankees in the season series, and wind up playing someone else in the playoffs to avoid what happened to your team after the 2003 ALCS. You agree with me that your club was dead-ass worn out from that seven-game series, and even though we survived it in 2004 we were so high from finally defeating the Yankees that the adrenaline carried over for four more games. I don't know if it could again. Sometimes it seems to be the World Series is anti-climatic after some of the great ALCS's we've had over the years. What's your opinion?