Possible 3 way deal?

[Cityofchampions33]

I would rather reep the benefits of showing self-restraint and keep all three of the trifecta (Backett, Lester, Papy) because is all likeliness they will be somethin special together and the foundation of our pitching staff. Sure Miguel is great, but right now I see no reason to trade anyone but Wells or Graffy for prospects or a back-up upgrade. I like the team we have, it will fit nicely with our future plans so I don't see a reason to change it.

 

But elsrbueno, Gonzalez can be released by March 15th and be paid onloy 500 thou so if we did get Miggy that'd be what we'd do with him.

[Teddyballgame10]

That trade would be great but why would the mets do that? A pitcher we dont want for a top proepect. Dont see it happening.

[SchillingIsTheNatural]

I wouldn't make a decision between Jon Lester and Papelbon. We all saw what Papelbon could do and Lester is the same just left-handed. What happens if Josh Beckett can't stay healthy? What if one of the two stud prospects doesn't work out? What if Bronson Arroyo continues to be a 4.5 ERA guy? You can't have enough pitching but these top hitters DO reach the market and we can sign them to put together a potent offense. Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Miguel Tejada, Vlad Guerrero, Paul Konerko....all of these players were free agents. There will be more of them.

[riverside sluggers]

Id love to see once the season ends... Sox to deal off Lowell even if he has a good year, better he has one the better we'll get in return. Then with Theo's magic sign Derrek Lee as the new Sox 1st baseman, along the lines of 4-6 seasons.

[kreinbihl34]

What do people feel? Would we rather lose Papelbon or Lester? I am assuming that the sox can sign Beckett for the next 4 years sometime soon, and either one of those guys would likely be the 2nd starter. Arroyo is young and many are expecting a good year out of him. He will be a "crafty veteran" within two years, but not old. I think that gives them a solid staff. That lineup would be DISGUSTING if they were able to get Tejada without giving up Manny.

 

Deal Papelbon, keep Wells and Clement.

 

Crisp

Loretta

Manny

Ortiz

Tejada

Nixon

Varitek

Lowell

Youkilis

 

Schilling

Beckett

Wakefield

Wells

Clement

 

Mmm Mmm Mmm. That would be as good as any of the last three Sox playoff teams was, likely better. I think it will be better because this should be the best pen the sox have had in a few years; seriously. Even though I highly doubt whether Foulke come back to form. When Schilling, Wakefield and Wells all retire (perhaps all after next season???) it still leaves a rotation of Beckett, Clement, Lester, Arroyo and someone, with room for a good farm pitcher (Bowden in 2-3 years?) to come up in due time.

 

Too bad its not real.

So your basicaly saying deal the future face of our team and keep an old piece of s*** and a choke artist? What are you smoking?

[jsinger121]

i would trade neither.....good young pitching is hard to find.

[ksushi]

Trade Papelbon? You're a f***ing idiot.

 

I wouldn't make a decision between Jon Lester and Papelbon. We all saw what Papelbon could do and Lester is the same just left-handed. What happens if Josh Beckett can't stay healthy? What if one of the two stud prospects doesn't work out? What if Bronson Arroyo continues to be a 4.5 ERA guy? You can't have enough pitching but these top hitters DO reach the market and we can sign them to put together a potent offense. Manny Ramirez, Alex Rodriguez, Miguel Tejada, Vlad Guerrero, Paul Konerko....all of these players were free agents. There will be more of them.

 

SENSE! HURRAH!

 

I agree with you but even if josh beckett stays healthy which I assume he will, even if arroyo improves his already solid pitching to become a very good pitcher you STILL keep papelbon and lester because pitching is EVERYTHING. If these two are even half as good as people think the Red Sox are MADE. The guy who thinks we should trade papelbon for a f***ing short stop because he figures we have enough pitching is absolutley retarded.

 

Back to the idiot -go bang your head against a cement wall until you get what I'm saying. I'm not going to bother to reason why I think we should keep young pitching because it is common sense, common baseball sense at least and apparently you don't have any. We've got two guys who could potentially let this franchise do what the A's lack of a payroll prevented them from doing BECOMING A POWERHOUSE FOR MANY MANY YEARS WITH NO DOWN YEARS FOR A LONG TIME! I LOVE CAPITOL LETTERS THEY HELP ME GET MY POINT ACROSS. The Red Sox payroll will allow them to turn over the weak spots in the roster while locking up that young pitching long term. If they've got an aging player? Bam, free agency. Bullpen woes? Bam, more free agency. The A's had to have re-loading periods, the sox won't. The rotation for the next five years could go Beckett Lester Papelbon Arroyo and Bowden (Bowden is a reach I admit, but if the sox keep him based on the little we know about him thus far he already has major league quality pitches at 19 and just a kind of jerky delivery) That is a rotation that lift you into the playoffs with 8 corpses fielding the diamond with them everyday.

 

You don't trade that for a short stop when you have a shortstop prospect waiting in the wings. No way.

[ksushi]

So your basicaly saying deal the future face of our team and keep an old piece of s*** and a choke artist? What are you smoking?

 

Double posting like a jerk but I didn't read this. You just made me so happy. Tejada is a choke artist, I dare any ******* who thinks trading papelbon for miguel is a good idea to look up Miggys post season stats. Getting Mig-face makes no sense. He's a bad post season hitter, according to my scouting crap at home and some stuff I found on the internet he is a 'plus' fielder and some even call him average. That isnt a guy who will perform well on fenways infield and defense is top priority at short. So what he is a good hitter? So is derek lee, put your bat back in your pants until september and if you're really interested in a hitter make sure you outbid everyone. That is actually less expensive then dealing away the face of your franchise.

 

I apologise for the lack of punctuation and patience, its late and im so tired but I have to say something to this mostly because im a windbag who pays way too much attention to baseball and really really is stubborn as all hell about the whole youth movement thing.

 

Over and hopefully out.

[example1]

So your basicaly saying deal the future face of our team and keep an old piece of s*** and a choke artist? What are you smoking?

 

Migueljuana.

 

I was just throwing it out as conjecture, as the rumor that I was addressing involved Lester and someone for Tejada. Then I imagined the lineup that the sox would have with Tejada, and wondered: if necessary, which of those two players (Papelbon or Lester) would people trade. More as a thought experiment than anything. That's all we f***ing do here anyway, its not like me writing that means the deal has happened. s***, lay off the 98 font butchering of posts please.

 

I think you should defend how Papelbon is the future face of our team? How do you know that? Is he charasmatic enough? Are there other faces in the way? I think that is a very hard thing to know one way or another. Couldn't lester be the face of that team, or how about David Ortiz? I hear Coco Crisp might be good one day, or how about the scrappy Dustin Pedroia? That seems like a lot of potential faces, not counting Craig Hansen or Jacoby ellsbury, or whoever else they buy when the next round of FA's happens.

[kreinbihl34]

A face of a team has to be alot of things.

1. Homegrown (usally)

2. Look at Chipper Jones is e charamatic? nope Just has to love the fans.

3. You can have many faces... we have Curt, David, Manny, and Tek

4. With enough experts and seeing how his preformanc was last year he IS going to be an ACE and a team leader/ face of our team

Edit: Want more?

End

[example1]

A face of a team has to be alot of things.

3. You can have many faces... we have Curt, David, Manny, and Tek

Edit: Want more?

End

 

Tejada doesn't have any "face of team" experience? You can't call Papelbon THE face of the franchise when you mean that the franchise has many faces. In that case, Tejada would be the face of the franchise too.

 

So yeah, I want more about faces of teams

 

I think Papelbon is great. He is likely going to be a great pitcher and has electric stuff. But you can't say that it is ridiculuous for someone to suggest getting Tejada for him. I wouldn't do the deal if I had the chance, but it is still pretty tempting. I understand building for the future, but adding Tejada to the top of a lineup that has 7 starting pitchers on it (even losing Papelbon, you get Lester). They would have a great shot at two or more world series over the next few years.

 

But we've spent too much time on this stupid rumor. I just don't care that much and was simply throwing it out there.

[riverside sluggers]

Papelbon is going to be a sick pitcher, already drawing early comparisons to the great Rocket, Im not saying he's a potential 300 game winner but he is the first starting pitcher of the system to have that type of debut. Last such of a strong debut like that was Roger 22 years ago.

 

Call me crazy if you like, but I hold so much value in this kid, Id balk at the Angels offer of Valddy for him straight up.

[ksushi]

Yeah, who cares about the face of our franchise. Enrique Wilson can be the face of the franchise for all I care just keep the young pitching. Who cares if papelbon is charasmatic? Thats one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Trade him for Tejada because he might not be charasmatic enough? Thank God you don't run the Red Sox.

 

Trading young pitching like this, especially in the division is the cardinal sin of baseball operations. What if this guy does turn into the next Mulder or Smoltz? Not quite Rocket, but what if he is that good? Would you trade him for a shortstop when you already have 2? Pedroia is going to be a very good major league player not too far from today, why do that move? If you respond to this post at all, answer that. Tell me what pluses you get from trading your great young ace in the division for a great shortstop when you already potentially have a great shortstop and you've got one of the best defensive shortstops in the league already in the fold. Tell me that. Tejada has a great bat, but the last thing this club needs is more offense at the expense of pitching or defense. Even if we could trade Gonzalez for Tejada in a deal involving more parts, I wouldn't do it because its a downgrade defensively. Call me crazy, but a defensive shortstop helps a pitching staff in big ways come the end of the season and Tejada's bat is very enticing but trading big parts of your future away for a few years of good hitting isn't worth it.

 

Look at '04, try to remember how you felt after game 1 of the ALCS when Schilling got hammered and it looked like he was done. Try to remember that feeling. It sucked, it was looking like 03 all over again. Not enough pitching and you come up just short. Great pitching does actually beat great hitting. Keith Foulke and Curt Schilling won us the world series. Those were the acquisitions that put our hitters in the position they were in, those were the acquisitions that put dave roberts on first base in the ALCS to begin with. If we can have guys like that in Lester, Papelbon, Bowden, and Hansen ready and waiting you keep them. All the time. Don't sell out for a big name like Tejada, because Tejada is not going to win you a championship. When those pitchers mature in the next couple years - being brought along by the likes of timlin wakefield and schilling - they will be able to take an offense on their backs and carry them to the division crown. That is what the front office has in mind when they balk at including these kids in any deal. They know what they have. I've read articles from Shapiro, Riccardi, Beane and other GM's from different websites and they all comment on our farm system and say how impressive it is. We don't have an overwelming amount of talent like Arizona and Tampa, but we're a big market club with all the talent where it really counts.

 

Position players and hitters come by much easier than guys with world class fastballs and the poise of a man much much older. Papelbon is a rare breed, and so is Lester. Lefties don't come made like Lester very often. Trading guys like that is an absolute no-no.

 

I would love to have Tejada for the record, trust me I know how good he is, but he doesn't fill a need. We don't need a shortstop, we don't need a hitter, and we don't need a big name. This move isn't going to happen, the rumor mill is getting worked again because the sox shopped Manny to anaheim and there isn't much truth in any of it. The only other move I see possible right now is a Clement deal, and probably a Wells deal.